nhu-simphongthuyvn
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Third party OS using pi 4

Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:44 pm

I was wondering when using a supported 64 bit os would the GPIO work, I like raspian but I prefer 64 bit for the new pi 4 release I don’t want the 32 bit OS, i understand the reasoning but i prefer 64 bit OS, I was looking at Ubuntu mate

Heater
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Thu Sep 12, 2019 4:26 pm

I'm sure one can use the Pi GPIO from any 64 bit Linux based operating system very easily. I have done it in C and Rust on Pi64 for over a year now. If you search recent forum activity you will find 64 bit OS for the Pi 4.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:53 am

If you only want 64 then Gentoo64 works.
There is also a 64bit kernel for Raspbian that you can try Buster with now.

Both work well but I have not really used them got GPIO stuff yet.
Other are in the works, Arch, Alpine, Ubuntu 19 etc but I have trouble getting them to work.

Just wait a few months more?
Mate will probably show up sooner or later.
Has been less than 3 months since the Pi4 was released?
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bjtheone
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:56 pm

The maintainer of Ubuntu Mate (who is a Canonical employee) has stated he is working on releasing the latest Ubuntu Mate on the 4B. People have got 18.04 with Mate up and running on the 4, but it is not officially supported yet. One thing to be aware of is that they are likely piggybacking on work that RPT is doing, and only have hardware acceleration working on the 32bit version for the 2,3, 3+. This may continue to be true for the 4, since so far RPT has only released hardware acceleration for 32 bit.

asavah
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:10 pm

nhu-simphongthuyvn wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 3:44 pm
I was wondering when using a supported 64 bit os would the GPIO work,
If every related software packages are built and installed properly - everything will work like a charm.
I have my own GNU/Linux based OS (pet project, not published) which surprisingly works very nicely on pi4, it's a full aarch64 build using 4.19.x kernel from raspberrypi github, no arm32 support in userspace at all. Everything gpio/spi/i2c just works, that includes rpi.gpio, gpiozero, luma.oled + tiny spi oled display, rtc with battery and etc.

rjbook51
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:15 pm

I believe Majaro has a 64 bit Pi4 version available, though I don't know how well it works.

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pi-tastic
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:28 pm

however would be be safe to say that Raspiban would be the best option almost always as its the best supported?
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johhnylatey
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:33 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:56 pm
The maintainer of Ubuntu Mate (who is a Canonical employee) has stated he is working on releasing the latest Ubuntu Mate on the 4B. People have got 18.04 with Mate up and running on the 4, but it is not officially supported yet. One thing to be aware of is that they are likely piggybacking on work that RPT is doing, and only have hardware acceleration working on the 32bit version for the 2,3, 3+. This may continue to be true for the 4, since so far RPT has only released hardware acceleration for 32 bit.
That's still a big step up, even with 32-bit hardware. Raspbian is great for it's purpose, but having Mate running near native and official would transform the Pi4 into an excellent eco-friendly desktop replacement - cheap, small, low-power, near state-art-of GUI, apps, etc. Just perfect. But, hang on! Where is the 4 distro? Umm. Nuts.

OK. I would like some shares for this, but anyways: Pi people, if you froze Raspbian for a month and put all your efforts and the community into getting Mate to work, don't you think you would sell 10 x times what you are now do? Nothing would match the growth.

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pi-tastic
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:59 pm

i like ubuntu mate alot!
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Fraoch
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:33 pm

johhnylatey wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:33 pm
Pi people, if you froze Raspbian for a month and put all your efforts and the community into getting Mate to work, don't you think you would sell 10 x times what you are now do? Nothing would match the growth.
Raspbian is the official Raspberry Pi OS. All the official development effort goes into it. Anything else is done by third parties. So it's up to the MATE developers.

I agree, MATE is nice on the Pi (runs well on my 3B+), but the Raspbian developers have put a lot of work into making LXDE on Raspbian nice and functional. Lots of customizations, lots of development. If you were to ask them, they're already doing what they can to increase sales by putting all this work into Raspbian.

Actually the problem isn't lack of sales of the Pi4 right now, it's too many sales - too much demand and not enough supply at the moment. The Pi4 has been a huge hit and they've already sold 1 million in a little over 2 months. That's record sales, the fastest selling Pi ever.
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ejolson
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:40 pm

pi-tastic wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:59 pm
i like ubuntu mate alot!
Mint is also good, but I'm not sure mint goes well in raspberry pie.

Although the idea of a light-weight desktop based on Openbox was very good in the beginning, it lost its best feature, in my opinion, when the distinctive Pi logo used for the default background was replaced by some generic-looking photograph.

The original background made the brand much more visible. That helped to promote how distinctive the educational mission of the Pi was compared to other SBCs, as well as how much greater the market share. Without this advantage, I don't see much point in maintaining a separate in-house distribution. While the inclusion of Mathematica and other proprietary software is important, presently the Pi is mainstream and popular enough that just a little outreach would result in many Linux distribution projects releasing Pi-specific install images that worked well.

Oh, never mind; keep up the good work with Raspbian. I like it well as obviously do many other people.

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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:52 pm

johhnylatey wrote: OK. I would like some shares for this, but anyways: Pi people, if you froze Raspbian for a month and put all your efforts and the community into getting Mate to work, don't you think you would sell 10 x times what you are now do? Nothing would match the growth.
No, where are you getting these numbers from and why do you think it would affect sales in any way?

pica200
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 4:53 pm

rjbook51 wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:15 pm
I believe Majaro has a 64 bit Pi4 version available, though I don't know how well it works.
It does work very well. GPU is not officially enabled yet but you can fix that by renaming 99-fbturbo.conf and disabling compositing in the window tweaks settings (needed because of a GPU driver bottleneck/bug).

bjtheone
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:35 pm

johhnylatey wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:33 pm
OK. I would like some shares for this, but anyways: Pi people, if you froze Raspbian for a month and put all your efforts and the community into getting Mate to work, don't you think you would sell 10 x times what you are now do? Nothing would match the growth.
Don't think it would make much of a difference. I suspect the majority of the people that already have Pis run Raspbian (and hence LXDE). It works well. I like Mate better since I have way more seat time on it and am more comfortable tweaking it, plus I use it on a bunch of other computers and have them all setup basically the same.

Switching desktops would be a lot of work for RPT, result in a desktop that offers basically the same functionality, with a slightly larger memory footprint. I don't see the win for current Pi people or RPT. I think the intersection of folks that are interested in Pis and folks that want to run Mate is fairly small. Officially supporting two desktop configs would pretty much double the support workload and is likely never going to happen.

For the niche users who really want Mate, it is available already on the Pi, just install it on top of Raspbian Lite. If you want the latest Mate, there are ways to get it running. Ubuntu has said they will be releasing an official package for Ubuntu Mate if you want the full and complete package. You just will have to wait for it.

It will be interesting once they release it to see if the RPT tweaks of Debian, that make Raspbian + Mate or Canonical tweaks of Debian that make Ubuntu plus a slightly newer Mate results in a cleaner, better performing system.

ejolson
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:10 pm

bjtheone wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:35 pm
johhnylatey wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:33 pm
OK. I would like some shares for this, but anyways: Pi people, if you froze Raspbian for a month and put all your efforts and the community into getting Mate to work, don't you think you would sell 10 x times what you are now do? Nothing would match the growth.
Don't think it would make much of a difference. I suspect the majority of the people that already have Pis run Raspbian (and hence LXDE). It works well. I like Mate better since I have way more seat time on it and am more comfortable tweaking it, plus I use it on a bunch of other computers and have them all setup basically the same.

Switching desktops would be a lot of work for RPT, result in a desktop that offers basically the same functionality, with a slightly larger memory footprint. I don't see the win for current Pi people or RPT. I think the intersection of folks that are interested in Pis and folks that want to run Mate is fairly small. Officially supporting two desktop configs would pretty much double the support workload and is likely never going to happen.

For the niche users who really want Mate, it is available already on the Pi, just install it on top of Raspbian Lite. If you want the latest Mate, there are ways to get it running. Ubuntu has said they will be releasing an official package for Ubuntu Mate if you want the full and complete package. You just will have to wait for it.

It will be interesting once they release it to see if the RPT tweaks of Debian, than make Raspbian + Mate or Canonical tweaks of Debian that make Ubuntu plus a slightly newer Mate results in a cleaner, better performing system.
There are many open-source developers working on Mate, whereas the Raspberry Pi desktop was developed in house. Given the fact that Mate appears more polished, works closer to how people expect and doesn't require a separate development effort, setting it as the default desktop may make sense for the move to 64-bit. Until then, keeping the familiar 32-bit Raspbian as reverse compatible as possible could be a better idea.

Even though everyone is entitled to an opinion, that doesn't mean every opinion falls within the guidelines necessary for posting on this forum. I hope I haven't crossed the boundary with what I just wrote above.

Back on topic, less effort spent on the development of the Raspbian Desktop would free up additional resources that could be devoted to ensuring third-party distributions run well on the Pi 4B. There is a reason so many Debian maintainers are on the payroll of companies such as Intel and why IBM bought Red Hat.

pica200
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:43 pm

It was long ago when i tried mate. I was testing several de's and ultimately xfce was the one i found worked the best and had very low resource usage which only lxde can beat. If i would be in a position to choose i would choose xfce instead of mate. It's also developed by the community and has few bugs as far as i can tell from over a year of usage.

bjtheone
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Re: Third party OS using pi 4

Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:45 am

ejolson wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:10 pm
There are many open-source developers working on Mate, whereas the Raspberry Pi desktop was developed in house. Given the fact that Mate appears more polished, works closer to how people expect and doesn't require a separate development effort, setting it as the default desktop may make sense for the move to 64-bit. Until then, keeping the familiar 32-bit Raspbian as reverse compatible as possible could be a better idea.

Back on topic, less effort spent on the development of the Raspbian Desktop would free up additional resources that could be devoted to ensuring third-party distributions run well on the Pi 4B. There is a reason so many Debian maintainers are on the payroll of companies such as Intel and why IBM bought Red Hat.
Given that they (RPT) want a desktop that works really well on the Pi they pretty much have to tweak/tune/polish/build one. Because there is no where near the same amount of dev work happening on arm as on intel/amd. Plus they need to tweak/tune to their particular hardware drivers, since they have "non standard" hardware. With the lower resources it made sense to go with the lightest "full" somewhat mainstream desktop, which one could make a fairly good case is LXDE. The 4B is the first Pi that really runs a full blown desktop well. The 3B+ struggles with standard browsers (which have become huge and bloated). It does not make sense to continue to support LXDE for the other Pis and do Mate for the 4.

It makes even less sense to consider supporting another distribution. They already have a tweaked version of Debian which is one of the largest distros out there. What competitive advantage to support more distros is there? Sure it would make some niche group of users happy but it would be a ton of work and would tie them into some other groups release cycles. With Raspbian they have control of the distro, since they are the mainline maintainers. With say Ubuntu they would be at the mercy of Canonical's decisions. I sure there is a reason they picked a fairly slow moving stable distro to base Raspbian on. The beauty of Linux is that it is fairly easy to get another distro up and running if you are Linux savvy and willing to roll up your sleeves and do some work. Ubuntu/Mate is already running, Arch is, Gentoo is, more will come. However, I doubt you will ever see more than Raspbian officially supported by RPT. Likely some will end up with official releases, especially now that the 4 is a credible little desktop, but they will come from the official maintainers not RPT.

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