blueagent
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:21 am

Lakka developers refusing to let people download old builds on their Pi3

Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:45 am

several days ago the Lakka developers had deleted all of their stable and older downloads of Lakka for the pi3, they intially claimed it was an accident but when i asked them for a download of their older build of Lakka, they simply refused to help on multiple occasions, and ignore my question of why they haven't yet re-upload all of their older builds back to their website yet, one of the lakka team developers even told me to wait for the next release, without specifying when it will come out; all signs being a clear indication that the so called accident was perhaps really no accident afterall.

since they ignored my request for help, i ended up paying 30 us dollars to someone on reddit who then supplied me with a older version of lakka for my Raspberry pi 3, so that means the developers would have no more reason not to help me anymore, but once again, when i post in the forums asking for help with the older build, they continue to ignore me, even after i caught one of the developers browsing my thread.

so i have a queston about this, when a developer deletes their opensouce software and refuse to let others download it, does it violate some kind of opensource rule? because i read about this a long time ago with another opensoruce developer and he was kicked out of github for doing something similier to what the lakka developers are doing now. lakka is not on github but their on another platform hosting open source and yet they do this kind of thing.... would the same also applied to lakka developers because of what they're doing right now?

PS: i have nothing against the developers of Lakka, infact i praised them publically on the retropi forum merely a few days ago for their amazingly functional software and user friendly nature of Lakka. prior to this, i have nothing but the highest praise for the developers and i applauded them for their efforts and yet now, i see them do this kind of thing, and they refuse to help me to a point where i had to pay money with paypal to get opensource software from someone on reddit, just because the lakka developers refused to let others download older builds of their work, i just don't think its right.

thanks for letting me know!

Andyroo

Re: Lakka developers refusing to let people download old builds on their Pi3

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:00 am

An internal error caused all of Lakka's release images to be deleted from our servers (404 error).
Please use the nightlies while we work on fixing this issue.
The Lakka team is sorry for the inconvenience.
A software creator can do what they want - there is no law for FOSS software to be available for ever more or for folk to keep supporting it.

Most purchased software will come with so many T&Cs that there is normally a clause that states 'we do not confirm this will do what we say or that it will work' in nice lawyer speak.

The nightly build directory http://nightly.builds.lakka.tv has Pi version in them going by the random 3 or 4 I've looked into.

If you had a support contract that covers back versions you may be able to take them to court for breach but normally the lawyers are the winners then.

A rough overview of licensing is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compariso ... e_licenses

blueagent
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:21 am

Re: Lakka developers refusing to let people download old builds on their Pi3

Sun Sep 08, 2019 3:10 am

yes they said it was an internal server error, but they did not want to give me an even older v2.2.1 build from 2018 even after i directly contacted them. the older build was previously available for download on their website up until a few days ago but now they won't let me have it. so i just wanted to know if this is against the spirits or rules of opensource software hosting.

i understand from reading what you said that they have the right to do what they want, ok that's fine, but now that i've paid money to obtain their older build, they still refuse to help me with it. i merely asked a simply question of how i can enable a certain feature in laaka, nothing more, but they still refuse to help me. since their show such reluctance with their older builds, i thought perhaps they might not be so truthful about their server files being accidentally deleted, i mean they're not giving downloads to people who need them, they;re not helping people who needs help with them....i guess it doesn't feel right you know?

anyways thanks for clearing that up for me.

Heater
Posts: 14429
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Lakka developers refusing to let people download old builds on their Pi3

Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:29 am

There is a big red banner at the top of the lakka.tv home page:

"Warning
An internal error caused all of Lakka's release images to be deleted from our servers (404 error).
Please use the nightlies while we work on fixing this issue.
The Lakka team is sorry for the inconvenience."


What more do you want?

Nothing about any open source license I have seen says anything about having to ship binary releases of your code.

Why on Earth do you expect that your paying money to some random person on Reddit for a build has got any thing to do with what the Lakka guys may or may not do? Why should they care where you waste your money.

I cannot find fault with anyone refusing to answer questions or help with older versions of their software. It would be very nice of them if they did but one can't expect people to have time for all that.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

blueagent
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:21 am

Re: Lakka developers refusing to let people download old builds on their Pi3

Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:40 am

https://github.com/libretro/RetroArch/issues/6066

looks like one of the Lakka staff got into a verbal spat with a developer who was making a core for Lakka.
they were angry and upset at said developer for his choice to make his core closed source,
and accused him of having violating GPL3 license, which was refuted

https://github.com/libretro/Lakka-LibreELEC/issues/536

in retaliation, the lakka development team then held a discussion
and decided to remove all of the closed source core of said developer from Lakka
all sides agreed on the decision to remove the core

since all of the older build of Lakka (which i want) has the closed source core,
this is most likely the reason why they were all removed.
i imagined that if they had wanted to restore the files, after the server deletion "accident"
they could've done it at any time, but they didn't.
one of the lakka staff already inferred to me on their forums that i will not get that older build of lakka.
so on this basis, i think there is reasonable ground to believe that the server deletion accident is not entirely truthful.


everyone here in the raspberry forums has been so nice and kind to me and were always there to help,
i guess i didn't expect other Pi communities would be so different.

in the end, they have every right not to help me with anything.
they don't have to give me the older builds,
or help me with them, after i paid to obtain it on my own due to their refusal to give me,
they don't have to tell me if a certain feature is in there, even if they won't help me enable said feature.
they don't have to respond to any of my messages,
and they are free to ignore me as they please.
its their forums and their choice to do whatever they want.
it was unreasonable of me to expect the same kind of warm hospitality as in the raspberry forums.
but atleast now i know what to think of THEM.

Heater
Posts: 14429
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:02 pm

Re: Lakka developers refusing to let people download old builds on their Pi3

Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:27 am

I would not be so hard on the Lakka team.

By the sound of things they want to do right by the GPL and provide you with free software. Sounds good to me.

They do seem to have gotten themselves into a mess over licensing though.

What I don''t understand is this statement in one of your links "Previously, the code was public and provided under the GPL license. Now however, the source is closed and not provided to you under any open source license."

Well, that is not right. Once code is released under the GPL the creator cannot take it back and declare it closed source again. If one happens to have a copy with the GPL license one is free to continue to use it, develop it, distribute it. No matter what the original author says.

It is true however that the original author can make further developments and release that as closed source in the future.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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