User avatar
Imperf3kt
Posts: 2868
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:16 am
Location: Australia

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:12 am

deanresin wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:05 pm
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:47 am
I already told you, in the manual.

Specifically section 5.6 on the bottom of page 11

I am unable to find the link to download it in my history, so here's a screenshot.
Image

The 50°C you are referring to is ambient maximum.

If this isn't acceptable, here is a post by a Raspberry Pi engineer.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 9#p1486109
That is a big difference from "maximum operating temperature". When I turn on my RPI4 it will never operate below 50°C just sitting there turned on with no case.
I suggest you look up what ambient means.


Since I posted that, there have been several posts by engineers which seem to imply the "maximum" operating temperature is about 120°C, at which point things start to destroy themselves and after about 85°C will experience a reduced life expectancy (hence why the Pi begins throttling at 80°C)
Last edited by Imperf3kt on Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

deanresin
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:11 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:17 am

Sorry, I thought you were the person who said "That said, the RPi 4 has a maximum operating temp of 50 C according to their published specs". I must have been mistaken.

User avatar
Imperf3kt
Posts: 2868
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:16 am
Location: Australia

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:18 am

All good.

I apologise for the rather blunt reply.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

e-raser
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:25 pm

For me the FLIRC case is doing a really good job on the Pi 4. See stressberry comparison below.
stressberry_Pi4(NoCase)vs.Pi4(FLIRCcase).png
stressberry_Pi4(NoCase)vs.Pi4(FLIRCcase).png (44.95 KiB) Viewed 2286 times
And if you wanna see the difference from a Pi 3 B+ in a FLIRC case (green line) to the Pi 4 in the FLIRC case (orange line):
stressberry_Pi3B+vs.Pi4(NoCase)vs.Pi4(FLIRCcase).png
stressberry_Pi3B+vs.Pi4(NoCase)vs.Pi4(FLIRCcase).png (56.27 KiB) Viewed 2286 times
1x Nextcloud & Pi-hole & ... on Raspbian @ Pi (4 4 GB)
1x Kodi media center on LibreELEC @ Pi 3 B+

User avatar
neilgl
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:36 pm
Location: Near Aston Martin factory

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:01 pm

My flirc case arrived today and is giving me a reduction in temperature of around 20 degrees C at idle with one monitor attached. And it is silent.

User avatar
clicky
Posts: 405
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:34 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:21 am

I would really like to see graph of Flirc Case vs Fan Shim. :)

castletonroad
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:23 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 10:10 am

hippie403 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:04 am
Youtube video of Pi 4 FLIRC case testing: https://youtu.be/vkLr08K0c1E Sounds like it is perfectly adequate. I've got one on order for my second Pi 4. I have a case with a small fan and 4 small heat sinks, idling at 42C ambient 22C.
Thanks - I was unsure, but then I watched the video. Ordered one, so will see how I go.
Raspberry Pi 4 Model B | Raspberry Pi 3 Model B | Raspberry Pi 2 Model B

LTolledo
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:03 am

Have this one on my new RPi4B-4G
ArmorCaseRPi4B.jpg
ArmorCaseRPi4B.jpg (29.22 KiB) Viewed 1942 times
which is similar to what I use with my RPi3B and RPi3B+
on ambient of 29C to 30C the RPi4B-$G CPU temp hovers on 50C during the upgrade cycle but stays on 45C while viewing youtube videos...

my fan's power is taken from TP1 and TP7 on the underside....
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

emilfr
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 5:25 am
Location: Dublin, IE

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:14 am

Anyone know where to get Flirc case for RPI4 in UK?
RPI Zero W || RPI 2B || 2x RPI 3B || 2x RPI 4B4G

LTolledo
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:50 pm

On my RPi4B-4G setup mentioned above,

changing the blue thermal pad to thin copper sheet improved cooling further
idling at 36C, watching YT videos at 40C, maxing at 45C during apt install/update/upgrades CPU at around 80%
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

e-raser
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:20 pm

Dude, just run a Stressberry benchmark. Your information like „watching YT videos temp. = xx degrees“ is not really comparable.

Nice setup anyway. What about the fan noise?
1x Nextcloud & Pi-hole & ... on Raspbian @ Pi (4 4 GB)
1x Kodi media center on LibreELEC @ Pi 3 B+

pica200
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:22 pm

I have seen these heatsink cases with fan and always wondered where the fans suck/blow air from/to? Is there a hole in the heatsink or are the fans mounted in such a way so there is a gap between them and the heatsink? These tiny fans must be pretty noisy. I have a case without the fans and recently got a 40x40mm fan so i'm ready for overclocking when i get to it.

dprees
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:02 pm
Location: Stirling, Scotland

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:26 pm

emilfr wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:14 am
Anyone know where to get Flirc case for RPI4 in UK?
I got mine here:
https://thepihut.com/products/flirc-raspberry-pi-4-case

It really works, just as everyone says. Maximum temp I can get my Pi4 4Gb once I put it into the FLIRC case was 61C, no matter how hard I stress it (at stock, btw...no overclocking).

I'll be buying a FLIRC case along with every Pi 4 I buy from now on...

User avatar
jcyr
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:31 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:35 pm

I've got to wonder how much these metal cases affect WiFi and Bluetooth performance?
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

e-raser
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:30 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:01 pm

jcyr wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:35 pm
I've got to wonder how much these metal cases affect WiFi and Bluetooth performance?
Great question. Did no before/after test but when switching my mediacenter hardware from Pi 2 to Pi 3 B+ (Pi 2 with external WiFi dongle, Pi 3 B+ with FLIRC case) the WiFi signal was significantly worse than with the external WiFi dongle. Might have two reasons in this case:
A) FLIRC metal case has an impact
B) External WiFi dongle with adjustable antenna is simply better
...or a mix of both.

At the end I disabled internal WiFi and used the external dongle on the Pi 3 B+ with FLIRC case.
1x Nextcloud & Pi-hole & ... on Raspbian @ Pi (4 4 GB)
1x Kodi media center on LibreELEC @ Pi 3 B+

pica200
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:27 am

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:09 pm

Did no before after test either but these heatsink enclosures seem to not block BT/WiFi much if at all. WiFi signal strength seems to be similar to other devices in the same room.

emilfr
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 5:25 am
Location: Dublin, IE

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 7:13 pm

e-raser wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:01 pm
jcyr wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:35 pm
I've got to wonder how much these metal cases affect WiFi and Bluetooth performance?
Great question. Did no before/after test but when switching my mediacenter hardware from Pi 2 to Pi 3 B+ (Pi 2 with external WiFi dongle, Pi 3 B+ with FLIRC case) the WiFi signal was significantly worse than with the external WiFi dongle. Might have two reasons in this case:
A) FLIRC metal case has an impact
B) External WiFi dongle with adjustable antenna is simply better
...or a mix of both.

At the end I disabled internal WiFi and used the external dongle on the Pi 3 B+ with FLIRC case.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=158301
RPI Zero W || RPI 2B || 2x RPI 3B || 2x RPI 4B4G

LTolledo
Posts: 2010
Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:29 am
Location: Anime Heartland

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:03 pm

e-raser wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:20 pm
What about the fan noise?
it quiet... (using android phone app) about 22db measured 30mm above the setup.

WiFi signal to setup is also good, as its not fully covered. my setup is about 1100mm away from my router
the WiFi side is facing away from the router...
"Don't come to me with 'issues' for I don't know how to deal with those
Come to me with 'problems' and I'll help you find solutions"

Some people be like:
"Help me! Am drowning! But dont you dare touch me nor come near me!"

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 4731
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:37 pm

clicky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:21 am
I would really like to see graph of Flirc Case vs Fan Shim. :)
I don't have a graph, but if I was a betting man, I'd put my money on the fan. In my experience, a fan alone works better than a heatsink alone.

However, if both solutions keep the Pi4 below the 80C throttling temperature, then I would prefer the Flirc. In the end the goal is to keep the Pi cool enough to maintain maximum performance and prevent heat damage, and temps below 80C do that, so does a few C difference here or there really matter? The Flirc makes no noise, does not require any additional power, and will not pull dust into your system (like a fan).

On the other hand, the Fan Shim is a pretty cool little gadget (pun intended). It has an addressable switch and RGB LED which you could use for other things (default is manual fan control and temperature indicator). It's pretty quiet, but definitely not silent. It is louder than the Noctua 40 x 10mm fans I have on other systems, but you can install Pimoroni's software to toggle the fan on and off as needed (Buster required).


jcyr wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:35 pm
I've got to wonder how much these metal cases affect WiFi and Bluetooth performance?
On my Pi 3B(+) models, if there is any effect, it's negligible (I have not noticed a significant loss in signal or performance after moving both a 3B and 3B+ into Flirc cases). Do note that the Flic is plastic on the bottom and part of the side near the wireless antenna (unlike some other cases which enclose the Pi in a metal box).

It's harder to tell on the Pi4, because it's WiFi performance seems to be lower, and more variable than my Pi3 models (things have improved with updates, so I assume the software is still being optimised). From a visual comparison, the walls of the Pi4 Flirc look noticeably thinner than the Pi3 Flirc, but I have no idea if that makes any difference.

I have a 4B2 in an open sided acrylic case, and a 4B4 in a Flirc, and neither one has great WiFi performance (both are worse than a 3B+ in a Flirc). In testing, their results are so inconsistent and variable, it's hard to draw conclusions. I've been disappointed in the Pi4 WiFi so far, but as I said, it seems to be getting better. Since it's all new hardware and a new Raspbian version, I would hope that performance would improve with new soft-ware and firmware (which seems to be the case, and I hope it improves further).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

User avatar
jcyr
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:31 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:01 am

I read elsewhere of a 1-4 dbm signal power reduction with some metal cases. Not too bad! 3dbm is equal to a 50% signal power reduction, which most receivers/transmitters can accommodate at short range.

Personally, I prefer a software controlled fan. A Noctua AX10 4 wire fan running at 20-30% speed is silent and all that is needed to keep the PI4 under 80C.
20190826_200521.jpg
20190826_200521.jpg (76.04 KiB) Viewed 1692 times
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 4731
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:55 am

jcyr wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:01 am
Personally, I prefer a software controlled fan. A Noctua AX10 4 wire fan running at 20-30% speed is silent and all that is needed to keep the PI4 under 80C.
Agree that is all you need. Disagree that's the preferred solution (at least on a system that runs 24/7).
dusty_tb_small.jpg
dusty_tb_small.jpg (60.27 KiB) Viewed 1676 times
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

User avatar
jcyr
Posts: 421
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:31 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:07 am

HawaiianPi wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:55 am
jcyr wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:01 am
Personally, I prefer a software controlled fan. A Noctua AX10 4 wire fan running at 20-30% speed is silent and all that is needed to keep the PI4 under 80C.
Agree that is all you need. Disagree that's the preferred solution (at least on a system that runs 24/7).
dusty_tb_small.jpg
Nothing a can of compressed air won't fix... :D
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

User avatar
Imperf3kt
Posts: 2868
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:16 am
Location: Australia

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:21 am

jcyr wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:07 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:55 am
jcyr wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 12:01 am
Personally, I prefer a software controlled fan. A Noctua AX10 4 wire fan running at 20-30% speed is silent and all that is needed to keep the PI4 under 80C.
Agree that is all you need. Disagree that's the preferred solution (at least on a system that runs 24/7).
dusty_tb_small.jpg
Nothing a can of compressed air won't fix... :D
If you leave it too long the dust will bind to the surfaces and a can of "air" unfortunately won't fix it.

The best fix is to install a filter and clean it every so often.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

User avatar
karrika
Posts: 1070
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:21 am
Location: Finland

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:40 am

I have used FLIRC cases for all my pi's. The new Pi4 FLIRC case has the same flaw as the older ones. You cannot easily use a 40-pin ribbon cable because the two screw poles are too thick for the connector. So I routinely mill away the metal all the way to the screw to fit in Black Hat3r cable. So my HAT boards are outside the case.

The temp is below 65 degrees for normal surfing etc with the FLIRC case.
IMG_20190827_074437.jpg
IMG_20190827_074437.jpg (46.98 KiB) Viewed 1626 times

emilfr
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 5:25 am
Location: Dublin, IE

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Heatsink vs Fan vs Flirc Case

Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:55 am

dprees wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:26 pm
emilfr wrote:
Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:14 am
Anyone know where to get Flirc case for RPI4 in UK?
I got mine here:
https://thepihut.com/products/flirc-raspberry-pi-4-case

It really works, just as everyone says. Maximum temp I can get my Pi4 4Gb once I put it into the FLIRC case was 61C, no matter how hard I stress it (at stock, btw...no overclocking).

I'll be buying a FLIRC case along with every Pi 4 I buy from now on...
Thanks
RPI Zero W || RPI 2B || 2x RPI 3B || 2x RPI 4B4G

Return to “General discussion”