bunklung
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:42 pm

Look at this monster:
https://www.seeedstudio.com/ICE-Tower-C ... -4097.html
monster.JPG
monster.JPG (45.79 KiB) Viewed 3491 times
Good article on passive vs active cooling:

https://blog.hackster.io/do-you-need-to ... 523ca12453

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Imperf3kt
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:10 pm

So after getting around to setting up my Pi4b (2GB) I'm not sure a fan is necessary for most users.

I ran Chromium on fullscreen for 30 minutes with a 1080p video playing and the Pi in free air never reached above 63°C, most of the time it sat around 53°C.
I am running a non-updated Raspbian Buster.

I will admit, ambient temperature was around 15°C
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

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jbeale
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 pm

I have one of those "radiator protection case" heatsink fins shown on ebay, but for a 3B. It works pretty well as a fanless heatsink, although the provided screws are *juuust* barely long enough to reach through to the opposite piece, I got maybe 1-1/4 threads of engagement and it felt like it would strip out with any more tightening (and other buyers complained it did strip out) so be careful with that.

It came with some different thickness of soft/goey thermal pads, and you had to stick on the right one depending on SoC height of 3B or 3B+ model.

The exact model I got was actually this one, from Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M8SH8TM/

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HawaiianPi
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:05 pm

Based on my experience with the old 3B, which had much of the same "does it need cooling" drama when it was released, a fan alone works better than a heatsink alone, and that's in open air (heatsink in a case is even less effective).

Both heatsink and fan seems overkill to me (the Pi is a sub 10W device that doesn't produce a lot of heat).

In an open sided case with a quiet low CFM fan and no heatsink, my 3B never reaches throttling temperature, no matter how hard I push it. The case is basically the same one posted by echmain and sold at wildly varying prices from countless vendors.

First two I got from JBTek, and I think I paid $6.99 for one and $7.99 for the other.
2layer_acrylic_case.jpg
2layer_acrylic_case.jpg (37.76 KiB) Viewed 3444 times
Last one I bought was from CTYRZCH for $3.90, but it came with a broken support spacer.

All of them came with loud fans, but the JBtek case fan did move a surprising amount of air for its size (although less surprising with its 300mA power requirement). I replaced the fans with Noctua NF-A4x10 5V, which are excellent, but cost twice as much as the cases (and almost half of what the Pi3B it's cooling cost).

When my 4B2 arrives tomorrow it will likely replace the 3B in this case.
Image

I also have a Flirc Pi4B case on pre-order, so that's one of the 4B4(GB) models covered. Haven't worked out what the other one is going into yet (only planned to get two at first, but got tired of waiting for the 4GB models to ship).
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jbeale
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:28 pm

Personally I like the fanless solution for what I suspect is better long-term reliability, when I'm putting Pi boards into possibly dusty places that are hard to get to.
Vault-Mess1.jpg
underground pi
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HawaiianPi
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:40 pm

jbeale wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:28 pm
Personally I like the fanless solution for what I suspect is better long-term reliability, when I'm putting Pi boards into possibly dusty places that are hard to get to.

True, fan cooled computers do tend to collect dust over time. Like my 24/7 torrent seeder SBC.
dusty_tb_small.jpg
dusty_tb_small.jpg (60.27 KiB) Viewed 3427 times

For that reason most of my Pi3B(+) computers reside in Flirc cases now. Only the SBC above and my test 3B are still in fan cooled cases.
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bunklung
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:45 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:05 pm
First two I got from JBTek, and I think I paid $6.99 for one and $7.99 for the other.
2layer_acrylic_case.jpg
Last one I bought was from CTYRZCH for $3.90, but it came with a broken support spacer.

All of them came with loud fans, but the JBtek case fan did move a surprising amount of air for its size (although less surprising with its 300mA power requirement). I replaced the fans with Noctua NF-A4x10 5V, which are excellent, but cost twice as much as the cases (and almost half of what the Pi3B it's cooling cost).

When my 4B2 arrives tomorrow it will likely replace the 3B in this case.
Image

I also have a Flirc Pi4B case on pre-order, so that's one of the 4B4(GB) models covered. Haven't worked out what the other one is going into yet (only planned to get two at first, but got tired of waiting for the 4GB models to ship).
Can you tell me more about this picture above with the SSD? Is the SSD mounted on there? What is the small device in between the RPi and the SSD?

CowboySkippy
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:07 am

Why not both a heatsink and a fan?

I both an open-air acrylic case from Amazon that features a fan connected to 5V.
The case came with an aluminum heatsink, about 0.8cm in height.
The case's fan blows downwards onto most of the CPU and fan.
The fan is very quiet.

I did a test today:
- using sysbench, run all 4 A72 cores at 10% by calculating primes
- using a python script and GPIOZero to read the temperature every 3 secs

Here are the results, at 100% loading and average temperatures across the nearly-constant sample:
  • Heatsink, Fan = 49.52C (121.14F)
  • No Heatsink, Fan = 54.77C (130.59F)
  • Heatsink, No Fan = 80.97C (177.75F)
  • No Heatsink, No Fan= 83.17C (181.71F)
Of course, the lowest recorded temperature average is when both a heatsink and a fan were used, as expected.
But notice that the addition of a heatsink lowers the temperature either 2C (4F) to 6C (9F), while the addition of a fan greatly lowers the temperature 29C (51F) to 30C (56F).
Ok, again, not rocket science, but the data tells all:

A fan greatly lowers the CPU temperature, and the heatsink helps, too.

Just a few numbers to show for the argument.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:20 am

bunklung wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:45 pm
Can you tell me more about this picture above with the SSD? Is the SSD mounted on there? What is the small device in between the RPi and the SSD?
Yes, the SSD is mounted to the case. The horizontal spacing of the case supports and the M3 threading matched the SSD mounting holes, on the back side anyway. The two supports on the front of the SSD are just acting as feet (resting on the top of the case). I could drill a couple of holes and screw the front feet in, but the SSD weighs almost nothing, so it isn't needed.

I used some short brass M3 spacers to hold the SSD a little above the case for fan clearance (hard to see in the picture above, but there is a fan under there). It's a quiet low CFM Noctua fan, so it only needed a little room to breathe.

If by small device you meant the USB adapter, it's an Eluteng USB 3.0 to SATA-III adapter cable (that particular one is no longer available). If you meant the little circuit board, It's a CP2102 USB-TTL adapter acting as a serial console cable. They come in two styles.
Image
The type with the USB-A plug is the most common, but the one in my picture is the smaller type with a female micro USB jack. It's wired to the GPIO serial TX and RX pins as well as ground. If you don't mind waiting for slow shipping from China, you can find these things on eBay for less than $2. I paid $5 for four of the micro USB ones with free shipping ($1.25 each).

When I want to connect to the Pi's serial console I use a normal micro USB cable from another computer and access it with a serial terminal. It's a great troubleshooting tool because you can monitor the kernel and shell messages and login without a network connection.
Image

Oh, and the CP2102 outputs 3.3V TTL, so they are compatible with the Pi GPIO.

CowboySkippy wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:07 am
Why not both a heatsink and a fan?
You can use both if you want, but if you are going to use a fan the heatsink may not be needed.
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rbscycle
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 09, 2019 1:37 am

This looks like it may fit the RPi4... So, I ordered one! Has not arrived yet.

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07R3F ... UIW7&psc=1

springtide
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm

springtide wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:46 pm
I've seen these for the older models, but looks like this is now for a 4

EBay Item: 254277995339

pi_sink.jpg

Has anyone owned one or the version for the older versions?
Heat sink case Finally arrived and it’s for a 4 as per description

Seem to work and fit great!!

knute
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:24 pm

I saw somebody post the other day about some small fans by Noctua so I bought a 5V version. It really keeps the temp down. Now with ambient temp 27C the Pi idles at about 40C. I ran it at 98% to 99% for 20 minutes and it was about 60C at the end. I have one of those little aluminum heat sinks on the processor and the GPU? I bought my Pi from Canakit and it came with a case that I cut a hole in the top of and that was a big improvement even before the fan. I think the fan is the way to go, at least for now.
Attachments
fan.jpg
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rshev
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:24 am

springtide wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm
springtide wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:46 pm
I've seen these for the older models, but looks like this is now for a 4

EBay Item: 254277995339

pi_sink.jpg

Has anyone owned one or the version for the older versions?
Heat sink case Finally arrived and it’s for a 4 as per description

Seem to work and fit great!!
Can you post temperatures with and without this case please?

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RaTTuS
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:40 am

How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
Covfefe

fanoush
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:17 pm

jbeale wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 pm
I have one of those "radiator protection case" heatsink fins shown on ebay, but for a 3B.
...
The exact model I got was actually this one, from Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M8SH8TM/
Does the same item works also on the pi4? There are listings for Pi4 too but are more expensive so I wonder if it is same item relisted or there is some difference.

EDIT:
I guess not due to ethernet vs usb ports, there is some cutout for that. Here https://www.ebay.com/itm/293160646186 is one on ebay for pi4 with multiple photos so it looks slightly different indeed.
Last edited by fanoush on Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:22 pm

fanoush wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:17 pm
jbeale wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:50 pm
I have one of those "radiator protection case" heatsink fins shown on ebay, but for a 3B.
...
The exact model I got was actually this one, from Amazon:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07M8SH8TM/
Does the same item works also on the pi4? There are listings for Pi4 too but are more expensive so I wonder if it is same item relisted or there is some difference.

The RPi 4B has a completely differing ports layout !!

https://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content ... -Large.jpg
Retired disgracefully.....

fanoush
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:30 pm

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:22 pm
The RPi 4B has a completely differing ports layout !!
Yes, but that does not answer the question, it could still be universal enough to fit as it is not whole case. Anyway here is one for pi3 https://www.ebay.com/itm/362682376363 and indeed it looks different around hdmi ports and ethernet and also the chips (RAM?) are in different location.

springtide
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:28 pm

rshev wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:24 am
springtide wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 8:51 pm
springtide wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:46 pm
I've seen these for the older models, but looks like this is now for a 4

EBay Item: 254277995339

pi_sink.jpg

Has anyone owned one or the version for the older versions?
Heat sink case Finally arrived and it’s for a 4 as per description

Seem to work and fit great!!
Can you post temperatures with and without this case please?
It has been a bit of heatwave here (for UK), so room temp is close to 25c and the RPi4 hovers around 56c idle (with desktop) with the heatsink.

I loaded it up with around 10x Youtube streams all playing in parallel to create load and it peaked at around 64c with a load of around 14.

I would run a benchmark/burnin but haven't figured out how to run these yet in the limited time. But I assume 64c means no throttling which is great. Much better than a noisy fan!

kannaiah
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:22 pm

Ebay item: 254277995339
As this is mostly metal covering all the radio parts, I would like to know if the WiFi and Bluetooth are working fine.
Thank you.

hal58
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:29 am

I have studied this issue for several years and find that copper heat sinks are more effective than aluminum. I also prefer to avoid fans since over the years I have had several failures (some saves since I try to display temp and fan RPMs with Gkrellm). I received my first Pi4 last week and am evaluating it as a workstation to replace a Pi 3B+. The Pi is mounted on a place hung on the rear of an LCD monitor and convection cooling is aided by having the board in a vertical position. With the 3B+, and a 14mm square copper heat sink with a 4 x 4 matrix of copper rods sticking out of it (advertised as video RAM heat sinks), temperatures rarely rose above 45 degrees C.

For the Pi 4, I had to use a smaller 10 mm square copper heat sink since I ran out of 14 mm units. Initially, the temps were uncomfortably high so I bent the rods on the heat sink out from the center creating a flowery fan appearance. Now the Pi 4 temp seems to stay in the mid-50s C. This is a tad higher than I would like but is acceptable until I can replace the heat sink with a larger unit.

One note on previous posts, I would recommend against placing a Pi in a metal case if you rely on wifi. Metal is usually a shield to Radio Frequency signals ;-)

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neilgl
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:18 pm

I’ll be getting a flirc case for my pi4.

andrum99
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:28 pm

Just fitted a black aluminium heat sink case from Pimoroni (https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/alum ... berry-pi-4) and it has taken the BCM2711 idle temperature down from around 60C to 40C. I've got an IQaudIO DAC+ on the top so that was blocking the airflow, hence the 60C idle. I've managed to reattach the DAC using a stacking header so it clears the heatsink and it works great - with metal standoffs screwed into the DAC board resting on the top of the heatsink. I'm expecting IQaudIO to release a suitable Pi 4 compatible case at some point to replace this slightly flimsy arrangement.

tdimike
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:23 am

knute wrote:
Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:24 pm
I saw somebody post the other day about some small fans by Noctua so I bought a 5V version. It really keeps the temp down. Now with ambient temp 27C the Pi idles at about 40C. I ran it at 98% to 99% for 20 minutes and it was about 60C at the end. I have one of those little aluminum heat sinks on the processor and the GPU? I bought my Pi from Canakit and it came with a case that I cut a hole in the top of and that was a big improvement even before the fan. I think the fan is the way to go, at least for now.
You'd possibly improve your temperatures having the fan blow in, rather than suck out. I'm currently seeing temperatures quite a lot lower than that with the same fan and similar heatsink setup. (Even overclocked to 1750)

johnny49r
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:07 pm

Here's what the Raspberry folks have to say on the subject of cooling:
The Pi4B will operate perfectly well without any extra cooling and is designed for sprint performance -
expecting a light use case on average and ramping up the CPU speed when needed (e.g. when loading
a webpage). If a user wishes to load the system continually or operate it at a high termperature at full
performance, further cooling may be needed.
In other words if the Pi is expected to do much, you should plan on a cooling solution. This was sometimes necessary with the Pi 3 but it seems mandatory with the Pi 4. However it may not require complicated or expensive methods.

I have a 30x10mm DC fan located about 1cm above the CPU with a small 13mm square copper stick-on heatsink.
I am overclocking to 1.75 GHz with an ambient temp of 30C.
Running a stress test where all 4 cores are utilized at 100% using the stress-ng utility, the highest temp I saw was 61C. This is a long way from the failsafe threshold of 80C where the firmware would begin throttling back the CPU clock.

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jcyr
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Re: RaspberryPi 4: heatsink or fan

Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:08 pm

procount wrote:
Thu Jun 27, 2019 10:27 am
A fan always wins in my view.
+1
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

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