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hardwaremack-orginal
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I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:26 pm

badnews.jpg
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This computer probably wouldn't run very well from most usb c psu;s anyways.
* Dont buy * is kind of harsh.....

The official 3a psu is only $9 bucks

drgeoff
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:29 pm

It isn't a big deal.

plugwash
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:40 pm

clickbaiters gotta clickbait.

Technocolour
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:42 pm

RPi has become a large echosystem, with lots of people that are interested in it, so certain venues want to cash in by making brashly worded clickbait headlines. (See: Apple / Nintendo / Sony is doomed, claims guy, with the hottest of takes)

Edit: Dammit plugwash... :lol:

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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:18 pm

I suspect the writer of that article was just trying to promote the other SBC's he recommended instead - be interesting to know if he was making money off it. If you look at the comments he got the slating he deserved. I suggest people don't read the article, and avoid that website, perhaps is they get less clicks they will start to write more accurate articles.

This really is a non-issue. A mountain from a molehill, blown up out of all proportion.
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:30 pm

FWIW, the charger that Planet Computers supply with the Gemini powers a Pi 4 quite happily...

Yeah, it's a non-issue.

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hardwaremack-orginal
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:43 am

Honestly though does the foundation consider this an issue or a flaw?

They are not going to do a recall or anything like that.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:10 am

Matter of physics, the old MicroUSb is not rated for higher currents, USB-C is.
More current is needed if you want USD HDs to work ok.

If you don't have a USB drive and use uSD then old 2.5 amp supply works fine with a tiny $2 USBmicro to USB-C adapter.
No big deal.
The big deal is those adapters are so small they would be easy to lose, so I got three and a carry case for the HDMI adapter and USB-C cable etc. Total cost of all the bits about $20, I used small change, big deal?
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bensimmo
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:15 am

Gavinmc42 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:10 am
Matter of physics, the old MicroUSb is not rated for higher currents, USB-C is.
More current is needed if you want USD HDs to work ok.

If you don't have a USB drive and use uSD then old 2.5 amp supply works fine with a tiny $2 USBmicro to USB-C adapter.
No big deal.
The big deal is those adapters are so small they would be easy to lose, so I got three and a carry case for the HDMI adapter and USB-C cable etc. Total cost of all the bits about $20, I used small change, big deal?
?
The article will be about some USB-C model PSUs and cable that do not power the Pi4 because they have a 'detect what it is powering' circuit.

It has nothing to do with μUSB connectors.

Edit
Gavin, a better article and and not biased or as grumpy as that site above. (And is where they got their info as it is the link in it)
https://medium.com/@leung.benson/how-to ... 470d7a5910

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Imperf3kt
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:27 am

Such devices are chargers and as such, not suitable for use as a power supply anyway.
Its the exact same situation as we had with the last connector, only this time its idiot proof - the devices are smart enough to know that they're chargers, not power supplies.
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Michiel O.
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:21 am

The writer of this clickbait article gives two alternatives to buy, and conveniently links to amazon.com. The links include his affiliate id, for financial gain.
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:11 am

drgeoff wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:29 pm
It isn't a big deal.
Definitely not a problem.

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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:23 pm

Well The Register jumped on the bandwagon too, although in a less agressive stance https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/07/10/pi_4_usb_c/
Some of the comments on there try to make it out to be a huge issue though.
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:29 pm

Many thousands of devices are now in the hands of end-users. If this *were* a widespread issue, why aren't the forums flooded with posts with titles like "I plugged my Pi 4 in and it doesn't turn on - no LEDs or anything"?

Either users have suddenly got spectacularly good at googling their problem (c.f. the number of dupe posts we get with other user pitfalls on Pi 4) or it's not a widespread issue.
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Michiel O.
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:58 pm

6by9 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:23 pm
Some of the comments on there try to make it out to be a huge issue though.
There is no such thing as bad publicity.
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shefalex
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:16 pm

My monitor has the ability to deliver power over USB-C and to be honest I was a little disappointed when this didn't work to power the Pi, but I certainly didn't expect it to either which is why I got a micro-USB to USB-C adaptor when I ordered. I continue to use the official PSU I bought with my Pi 3 B+, total non issue.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:24 pm

The real question is, why are people still trying to use chargers as power supplies?

Although I suppose the difficulty in obtaining the official PSU may have something to do with it (Pimoroni seems to have the black one).
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:04 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:24 pm
The real question is, why are people still trying to use chargers as power supplies?
The term "charger" is often only a lingering legacy term when used with top-end power supplies. It has almost become a colloquial term for whatever connects between the mains and the device, which just happens to power the device and charge its battery.
jdb wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:29 pm
Many thousands of devices are now in the hands of end-users. If this *were* a widespread issue, why aren't the forums flooded with posts with titles like "I plugged my Pi 4 in and it doesn't turn on - no LEDs or anything"?
It is a widespread issue, because it affects every one of those thousands of devices sold, but it's not a major issue, and not even an issue for most.

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hardwaremack-orginal
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:14 pm

the dollar tree sells usb micro to usb c for $1
they also sell usb c cables and usb micro cables, everythings a $1 lol.
dollartree.com <--- not sponsored.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:19 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:04 pm
The term "charger" is often only a lingering legacy term when used with top-end power supplies. It has almost become a colloquial term for whatever connects between the mains and the device, which just happens to power the device and charge its battery.
Nobody calls an ATX power supply a charger.

If it's designed to charge a battery, it's a charger, and may get away with poor voltage regulation. Doesn't matter if it can also be used to power the device while charging (the battery is what powers the device, and also acts as a rudimentary UPS). Even if the Pi4 was compliant, we'd probably be dealing with the same kind of nonsense we went through with the Pi3 and chargers.
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hardwaremack-orginal
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:34 pm

my statement is charger or psu same thing --- when it comes to USB power supplies.
They all have to maintain 5v whether or not its charging or supplying.
There could be possibly a duty cycle thing.... most cellphones are fully charged with in 1 or 2 hours.
Continuous duty might run into thermal issues?
also maybe 105c caps instead of 85c smoothing caps. They are all going to have a bridge rectifier and output smoothing caps.

Some old school Automotive 12-15 v Lead acid battery Chargers use just a half wave rectifier and omit the smoothing caps. like literally contain an Xformer and diodes, and that is it. :) because its all that is needed for that application.

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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:01 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:19 pm
hippy wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:04 pm
The term "charger" is often only a lingering legacy term when used with top-end power supplies. It has almost become a colloquial term for whatever connects between the mains and the device, which just happens to power the device and charge its battery.
Nobody calls an ATX power supply a charger.

If it's designed to charge a battery, it's a charger, and may get away with poor voltage regulation. Doesn't matter if it can also be used to power the device while charging (the battery is what powers the device, and also acts as a rudimentary UPS). Even if the Pi4 was compliant, we'd probably be dealing with the same kind of nonsense we went through with the Pi3 and chargers.
But you know that, others just call them chargers because they look like chargers and that is what phones used to use.
Many of these modern 2A+ PSU/Chargers are good devices, they need to be.
In USB-C world I don't know, it's not so common, I know few people that use them unless they have a high end phone.
I don't even know what spec this e cable thing is supposed to be.
I can't be bothered to look.

The Official Pi PSU are called chargers by most people.

I know people who call laptop power supplies chargers, even though they can run the computer off it without the battery it.

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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:45 pm

All I know is that any power cable that has a chip in it that inhibits the flow of power is broken.

Use a proper cable.

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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:47 pm

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:34 pm
my statement is charger or psu same thing --- when it comes to USB power supplies.
They all have to maintain 5v whether or not its charging or supplying.
But that's the problem. They don't.

I'm guessing you weren't around for all the Pi3 charger drama, but many so-called "5V" chargers do not maintain a stable 5V under load. They don't have to, because most phones only need a little over 4.2V to charge. I've had a "5V, 2.4A" charger that dropped well below 5V at only a 1A load. It charged my phone and tablet fine, but it was a lousy Pi PSU.

Lots of people here on the forums found that out the hard way when the Pi 3B was released, and then we went through that again when the Pi 3B+ came out (with a bit less drama, because most had already learned that lesson).

So whether or not they "have to maintain 5v" I can assure you they don't (not all of them, anyway).

bensimmo wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:01 pm
The Official Pi PSU are called chargers by most people.
Bold statement. Got any proof?
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Re: I didn't think the usb c power thing was a big deal...

Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:00 pm

I was planning on using my Google Pixel 3 USB charger as a power supply and initially thought this was a big deal until I researched a bit more and realized:

1. I can just use my official Raspberry Pi 2.5 A power supply with a cheapie micro USB - USB-C adapter I use to slow-charge my Pixel.
2. This is only a concern with power supplies/chargers that use smart "e-marked" cables with active electronics in them. e-marked cables actively sense what they're connected to, and if the device reports back that it can accept > 3 A, it ramps the power up beyond the default 3 A. However it appears that non-e-marked cables have to all deliver at least 3A as part of the USB-C spec.

My charger is rated for 3 A and the cable doesn't appear to have active electronics in it. I gave it a try and it works fine powering my new RPi4. I haven't tried the official 2.5 A power supply with the adapter, but I would be surprised if that didn't work fine as well.

Perhaps my cable is e-marked as the power supply is also capable of delivering 9 V @ 2 A (i.e. 18 W) using USB-PD but it still powers my Pi without complaint.

I'm not using any power-hungry USB devices so 2.5 A will be plenty. 3 A is more than enough.

I suspect this affects people with very high power, expensive 3rd party chargers. Something like this:

https://www.amazon.ca/Delivery-Charger- ... =1-36&th=1

with this:

https://www.amazon.ca/Anker-PowerLine-D ... D9RGE0NJD6

and at those prices, you don't buy those things without researching them first.

Regarding the whole charger vs. power supply thing, I have cheapie 1 A power supply that works fine on my 1B and 2B but an otherwise reputable Pi supplier's 2 A power supply that does not power my 2B well. Funny but it feels lighter than the smaller 1 A power supply. So when I bought a 3B+ I bought the official 2.5 A power supply and it works perfectly with the 3B+.
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