Moonmarch
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:52 pm

DavidS, gordon77, what I meant to explain to everyone about my comments about slow computers was how the RPI computers are $35, and if the computer is not fast or takes a long time to load, you need to take into consideration that this computer is $35 instead of comparing RPI to a "entry level desktop computer" which we know will cost at least $150, to build a computer you need to purchase the CPU, motherboard, ram, power supply, etc, which is the reason why desktop PCs will cost more money.

When I purchased the RPI computer I had low expectations at first, would I recommend the RPI to everyone, I would say people would need to know how to use Linux before purchasing any RPI computer, because Linux is not the same as Windows, that is actually how I use the RPI computer, searching the internet for guides on how to use Linux.

Using my x64 computer programs will load in seconds, people shouldn't have the same expectations for the RPI computer, for a real low power computer to act as a desktop computer replacement, try using the RPI zero as a desktop replacement which is supposedly faster than the original RPI.

wh7qq
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:08 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:03 am
wh7qq wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:47 am
Not sure how this relates to the RPi 4 but my "speedometer 2.0" ran a ripping 16.2 mean. Considering my long satellite latency is a factor so it may be a poor point of reference.
On what system?.
On the x86 system described above based on the Celeron J3455. Web performance seems to be about the same as with the RPi 3B with a light tab load but that is an impression unsupported by benchmark. The 3B is offline for the moment so I can't compare directly.

Heater
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:12 pm

Moonmarch,

I kind of agree with all you said there except:
"I would say people would need to know how to use Linux before purchasing any RPI computer"
Certainly one needs to gain some familiarity with Linux to properly use the standard Pi plus Raspbian set up.

But what better way to learn that than get a Pi and start playing with it? They are so cheap, what's to loose? Whilst there is a lot to be gained.

After all, the Pi is intended to be a gateway to computer education.

Musketeer
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:37 pm

Core 2 got 18 GFLOPS
PI4 like 16 +/-?

http://web.eece.maine.edu/~vweaver/grou ... hines.html
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ejolson
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:22 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:37 pm
Core 2 got 18 GFLOPS
PI4 like 16 +/-?

http://web.eece.maine.edu/~vweaver/grou ... hines.html
Running the same HPL High-Performance Linpack benchmark on the Pi 4B achieves 10.9 GFlops as reported here.

Moonmarch
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:11 am

The RPI is education based, because you can run the entire operating system from the terminal similar to MS DOS, you need to remember several terminal commands otherwise you will not be able to use the computer effectively, we all know people can't use Windows 10 on the RPI, people have tried, didn't say people should stop trying which is one the reason why people invest in the RPI computers, to try out different software, to change the function of a computer.

Several different operating systems are compatible with the RPI computers.

jamesh
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:53 am

Moonmarch wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:11 am
The RPI is education based, because you can run the entire operating system from the terminal similar to MS DOS, you need to remember several terminal commands otherwise you will not be able to use the computer effectively, we all know people can't use Windows 10 on the RPI, people have tried, didn't say people should stop trying which is one the reason why people invest in the RPI computers, to try out different software, to change the function of a computer.

Several different operating systems are compatible with the RPI computers.
Not true.

Boot to Raspbian desktop, and you can do most tasks that a Windows user would want to do without ever touching the command line. It's a graphical desktop, and in my opinion, actually easier to use than Windows 10.

Of course, if you want to use terminal command just pop up a terminal windows and use that. Just like you would in WIndows popping up a command prompt. The difference being the Linux terminal is MUCH better than the WIndows one.

My father uses a Acer Revo computer running Ubuntu and a laptop running Raspberry Pi desktop for x86. Both Linux, but he doesn't know that. He just uses it. He's 80.
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W. H. Heydt
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:36 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:53 am
My father uses a Acer Revo computer running Ubuntu and a laptop running Raspberry Pi desktop for x86. Both Linux, but he doesn't know that. He just uses it. He's 80.
A few years ago, I was talking with my grandson's first grade teacher, pushing the idea of Pis in the classroom. When I told her the Pi runs Linux, she sort of shuddered. I asked what sort of smart phone that was in her hand. The reply, "Android". So I pointed out that Android runs on Linux. All of a sudden, her fear of Linux evaporated.

The story here is, of course, that far more people encounter Linux every day than think they do. From Android phones to many, many web sites, they are interacting with Linux systems.

Heater
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:48 pm

W. H. Heydt,

That's a nice story. And I like to know what happened. Did Pi make it into that classroom? Did anything good come of it.

But really, users of Android and a million different web sites never, not to mention users of most routers, drivers of Tesla's etc never actually "encounter" Linux. No more so than I encounter the engine in the bus that takes be to work everyday.

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rpdom
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:00 pm

Heater wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:48 pm
But really, users of Android and a million different web sites never, not to mention users of most routers, drivers of Tesla's etc never actually "encounter" Linux. No more so than I encounter the engine in the bus that takes be to work everyday.
Don't get me started on bus engines. I saw enough failures in the last few years of travelling a few miles each way to do me for life, including being on a bus that skidded to a halt when the engine froze and another that lost the use of its gearbox (twice) in the city centre.

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DavidS
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:15 pm

Since we are comparing to computers that ship with Windows 10:
At the urging of some on this forum I had purchased a low end x86/x64 laptop (came with Windows 10), I was told it would be many times faster than the RPi (as the RPi had at that time been the fastest computer in my collection). Once I got a light weight OS on the laptop (1.2GHz Quad core InTel Atom, 4GB RAM) it ran fairly decent, it out ran the RPi 1B by a fair split.

Then came the RPi 2B
Then I got a BCM2836 ARM Cortex-A7 based Raspberry Pi 2B, and the Pi caught up with the still pretty new x86 laptop. While the x86 laptop had way more RAM I never actually load out more than 500MB of RAM in the worse usage and abuse of computers, and for Linux I always run with swappoff -a.

Next came the Raspberry Pi 3B, that runs circles around the x86 laptop, even if running exactly the same OS configured identically (just one compiled for x86 the other for ARMHF).

In Summery:
Yes the Raspberry Pi 4B is faster than an entry level PC from only a few years ago. Even the Raspberry Pi 3B is faster than an entry level PC form a just a few years ago (and one that you can still buy with exactly the same HW). I can say this even though I do not yet have a Raspberry Pi 4B.
RPi = The best ARM based RISC OS computer around
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ejolson
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:15 pm

rpdom wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:00 pm
Heater wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:48 pm
But really, users of Android and a million different web sites never, not to mention users of most routers, drivers of Tesla's etc never actually "encounter" Linux. No more so than I encounter the engine in the bus that takes be to work everyday.
Don't get me started on bus engines. I saw enough failures in the last few years of travelling a few miles each way to do me for life, including being on a bus that skidded to a halt when the engine froze and another that lost the use of its gearbox (twice) in the city centre.
Are the engines on the new buses which turn off at each stop more prone to failure?

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rpdom
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Re: (pi4) so how fast is 'entry level pc performance'

Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:50 pm

ejolson wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:15 pm
rpdom wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:00 pm
Heater wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:48 pm
But really, users of Android and a million different web sites never, not to mention users of most routers, drivers of Tesla's etc never actually "encounter" Linux. No more so than I encounter the engine in the bus that takes be to work everyday.
Don't get me started on bus engines. I saw enough failures in the last few years of travelling a few miles each way to do me for life, including being on a bus that skidded to a halt when the engine froze and another that lost the use of its gearbox (twice) in the city centre.
Are the engines on the new buses which turn off at each stop more prone to failure?
(drifting way off topic here)
I have no idea. We don't have many of those around here and they are not in use on the routes I have used.

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