wh7qq
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Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:00 pm

I have seen a large number of posts that are really difficult to understand. It occurs to me that some of this may be related more to non-English speakers using online translator facilities to post requests originally written in the poster's native tongue. The online translators have a nasty habit of messing-up syntax and sentence structure to the point that the output may be very difficult to follow and it would be hard to impossible for the OP to recognize the problem. It gets worse as some OPs do not have an electronics or software background and both disciplines tend to have their own peculiar language. Google-translate and others do poorly with that.

Other posts I have seen seem to have been written on so called "smart phones" with auto-correction and auto-completion and the frequently used abbreviations and jargon. These can get really funny at times but for troubleshooting and technical support, they can interfere with getting results. No apologies to these folks...it is just laziness.

I have no wish to put English challenged posters down or discourage them, as I speak only English myself and would be in the same situation trying to post in their language, but I would suggest that these posters not use the online translator and try to find a human English speaker to do a "real" translation. Often times, Google-translate and others will scramble the output to being unintelligible. We just want to help here, but it can be really difficult. Electronics and software related issues tend to be very language critical and rather than ignore their post or blow them off, I offer this suggestion, of course, in addition to the language specific forums.

It would also help if the poster puts their country of origin in their profile so that another reader who speaks that language might be able to help out. Help us to help you.

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rpdom
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Re: Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:16 pm

wh7qq wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:00 pm
It would also help if the poster puts their country of origin in their profile
Like you have?

wh7qq
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Re: Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:12 pm

If I were English challenged, it would make lots of sense. If you just don't like the Yankee accent, that is your problem. Actually, my use of my Hawaiian US amateur radio call sign as a nickname pretty well nails down my location. Seemed silly and redundant to specify the obvious.

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davidcoton
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Re: Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:17 pm

wh7qq wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:12 pm
If I were English challenged, it would make lots of sense. If you just don't like the Yankee accent, that is your problem. Actually, my use of my Hawaiian US amateur radio call sign as a nickname pretty well nails down my location. Seemed silly and redundant to specify the obvious.
Your Hawaiian callsign may be obvious to other active amateurs with fair DX knowledge, but to most Pi users it means ... precisely nothing. I doubt that more than 10% of forum members even recognise it as a callsign. Your assumption is as big an error as thinking that Google can translate (technical) language accurately.
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DirkS
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Re: Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:17 pm

wh7qq wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:12 pm
Actually, my use of my Hawaiian US amateur radio call sign as a nickname pretty well nails down my location. Seemed silly and redundant to specify the obvious.
Only obvious if you know what it means. Since I don't care about amateur radio I had no idea until you mentioned it. And I don't think I'm part of a minority in that respect...

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rpdom
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Re: Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:26 pm

wh7qq wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:12 pm
If I were English challenged, it would make lots of sense. If you just don't like the Yankee accent, that is your problem. Actually, my use of my Hawaiian US amateur radio call sign as a nickname pretty well nails down my location. Seemed silly and redundant to specify the obvious.
I never said anything about the Yankee accent. I have some very good friends over there.

Your use of a amateur radio call sign may ring some bells on an amateur radio forum, but this isn't one of those.

Sorry, but your "one rule for 'them', doesn't apply to me" is just not cool.

pcmanbob
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Re: Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:48 pm

As I know nothing about amateur radio I assumed your nickname was just a random collection of characters or was some collection characters like initials, I would never have guessed it was a call sign or that it was specific to Hawaii/US, so did not give me your location.

If you want people to include their location in their profile then you should lead by example.
We want information… information… information........................no information no help
The use of crystal balls & mind reading are not supported

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Translation issues

Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:04 pm

wh7qq wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:12 pm
If I were English challenged, it would make lots of sense. If you just don't like the Yankee accent, that is your problem. Actually, my use of my Hawaiian US amateur radio call sign as a nickname pretty well nails down my location. Seemed silly and redundant to specify the obvious.
That your forum ID is a ham call sign is news to me. The point remains that, if you think people should make their country public (and I agree that it's a good idea), then you should begin by "setting a good example". Don't make people guess. It's far too easy to guess wrong without creating additional means to make errors.

Now on the actual subject at hand... English is, as languages go, pretty forgiving, particularly with regards to word order. Or, as a quip I came across put it, "The language Latin that same thing as English is not."

wh7qq
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:44 am

A lot of folks here proclaiming their ignorance. I am just trying to improve communication and expand support where often one is inclined to simply pass over an incomprehensible posting. Is that a bad idea? How did this somehow become about me and my nickname and not the topic I raised? Argumentum ad hominem

n67
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:14 am

wh7qq wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:44 am
A lot of folks here proclaiming their ignorance. I am just trying to improve communication and expand support where often one is inclined to simply pass over an incomprehensible posting. Is that a bad idea? How did this somehow become about me and my nickname and not the topic I raised? Argumentum ad hominem
Because that's the way online forums are. Exceptions are rare.
"L'enfer, c'est les autres"

G fytc hsqr rum umpbq rm qyw rm rfc kmbq md rfgq dmpsk:

Epmu Sn!

J lnacjrw njbruh-carppnanm vxm rb mnuncrwp vh yxbcb!

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:20 am

wh7qq wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:44 am
A lot of folks here proclaiming their ignorance. I am just trying to improve communication and expand support where often one is inclined to simply pass over an incomprehensible posting. Is that a bad idea? How did this somehow become about me and my nickname and not the topic I raised? Argumentum ad hominem
Well...no. It's not about your nickname, save that you assumed a broader recognition of its meaning than appears to actually exist. At this point it is, in part, that you are suggesting to others that they should show their country in their normal ID data. I agree that that is an excellent idea. Now having suggested it, you do yourself a considerable disservice by not following your own advice.

As for incomprehencible posts... I can decipher most posts that are in some approximation of English. I may not be able to address the issue the poster is dealing with it, but I can almost always tell what the issue is. When the posts aren't in English, I do my best to determine what language it is--and if I can't tell or I'm not sure, I show it to my wife who has a degree in linguistics and can nail down a very wide range of languages at a glance--then report the post so that it can be moved the correct language forum.

Heater
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:38 am

It is not "Argumentum ad hominem". The observations I read are not about you personally.

Rather they have been a critique of a post that suggests posters indicate country of origin or native language whilst at the same time not doing so itself. i.e. it is self-contradictory.

Your call sign may well be a clue as to your location and language, but it's not realistic to expect any one to know that given how few radio hams there are in the world.

Personally I suggest internet users give away as little information about themselves as possible.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

achrn
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:41 am

wh7qq wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:44 am
A lot of folks here proclaiming their ignorance. I am just trying to improve communication and expand support where often one is inclined to simply pass over an incomprehensible posting. Is that a bad idea? How did this somehow become about me and my nickname and not the topic I raised?
"Do as I say, not as I do" never goes down well.

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Burngate
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:55 am

wh7qq wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:12 pm
Actually, my use of my Hawaiian US amateur radio call sign as a nickname pretty well nails down my location. Seemed silly and redundant to specify the obvious.
An interesting viewpoint.

I've just put your call sign into Google and found that WH7QQ (yourself) as well as KH7SF, WH6TT and K9FD live in Maunaloa
And furthermore, if SCHWEIGERT, MERVYN D (K9FD) were to join this forum using his call sign for his name, he could be considered British and a Dr Who fan.

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mahjongg
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:00 pm

N67 was banned two months again for two months, for trolling the moderators, and many-many other transgressions, and his first post after two months still contains the signature that was the final reason for this ban:
n67 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:14 am

G fytc hsqr rum umpbq rm qyw rm rfc kmbq md rfgq dmpsk:
== (Caesar cypher rotate:24)
I have just two words to say to the mods of this forum:

I have now perma-banned him because even a two month ban did not convince him to remove his moderator trolling signature before posting again. You are no longer welcome here... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Also, I did not want to give him the opportunity to maim his 900 or so posts with a truly horrific signature.

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rpdom
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:42 pm

mahjongg wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:00 pm
N67 was banned two months again for two months, for trolling the moderators, and many-many other transgressions, and his first post after two months still contains the signature that was the final reason for this ban:
No doubt he will be back under yet another name in a month or so :-(

Heater
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Re: Translation issues

Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:10 pm

n67's "encrypted" sig certainly advised people do something he had not managed to do yet himself.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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mahjongg
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:21 pm

rpdom wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:42 pm
mahjongg wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:00 pm
N67 was banned two months again for two months, for trolling the moderators, and many-many other transgressions, and his first post after two months still contains the signature that was the final reason for this ban:
No doubt he will be back under yet another name in a month or so :-(
Yeah, but his style of trolling will hopefully quickly detected, and we can ban his sock puppet before he manages to post too many to manually delete

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davidcoton
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:27 pm

Can Mods change the signature of the closed account, to leave the body of the messages without the ban-triggering message?
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mahjongg
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:31 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:27 pm
Can Mods change the signature of the closed account, to leave the body of the messages without the ban-triggering message?
Mods no, but maybe the forum managers can, I have inquired.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:33 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 1:27 pm
Can Mods change the signature of the closed account, to leave the body of the messages without the ban-triggering message?
It's benign and not encrypted.
The top half is ROT2
The bottom half is ROT17
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

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Heater
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 3:53 pm

Julius Caesar would have said it was encrypted.

Seems terrorists and other bad guys have also thought so very recently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesar_cipher
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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rpdom
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:20 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:33 pm
It's benign and not encrypted.
The top half is ROT2
The bottom half is ROT17
It's a dig at the mods.
ROTx is a simple encryption cipher.

From Wikipedia
In cryptography, a Caesar cipher, also known as Caesar's cipher, the shift cipher, Caesar's code or Caesar shift, is one of the simplest and most widely known encryption techniques.
(emphasis mine)

Heater
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:46 pm

I guess one could question if ROT is encryption in the modern sense. Given how trivial it is to crack.

My son challenged me with a Caesar ciphered paragraph when he was 12. He was a bit miffed when I read it out loud after looking at it for a minute or so. I pretty much intuited it from a few of the most frequent letters, the words he was using commonly at the time and guessed the rest.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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lpsw
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Re: Translation issues

Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:05 pm

Ceasar's Obfuscation...
Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is - Isaac Asimov

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