erichabg
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:29 am

TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:29 pm

I'm trying to watch TV with a Raspberry TV Hat on a Pi 3 but with no success.
I have installed tvheadend on a fresh 2018-11-13-raspbian-stretch installation, then installed the tvheadend software as described in "Getting-started-with-the-Raspberry-Pi-TV-HAT.pdf".
Tvheadend finds 19 muxes but 0 services.
I have tried three different aerials (with amplifier and w/o) but without any success.
The television broadcaster is only 4 km away. There should be a wonderful reception of the signal (listed as -30dB in the tvheadend gui)
Same result with an older Raspbian installation.

Any ideas what I could do?

Regards
Erich

moojuiceuk
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Location: Southampton UK

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:39 pm

What happens if you go to Configuration -> DVB Inputs -> Networks and look at the DVB-T Network row. Is there a # Services with a number other than zero, as well as 9 # Muxes? Try pressing Force Scan, see if it re-scans the 9 Muxes for services?

johndavies
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:00 pm

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:14 pm

If the above advice fails, look at the Pihut site. I found their advice very useful . The site address is:

Code: Select all

https://thepihut.com/blogs/raspberry-pi-tutorials/how-to-stream-digital-tv-with-the-raspberry-pi-tv-hat
I used the information provided by www.Pimoroni.com to get started but the Pihut information is much , much better. The TV Hat works quite well with VLC and Raspbian so if you want to see how I got on, look at the current Media section under the heading "Early Use of the TV Hat and VLC". I have never really used VLC before but the recent release of an enhanced accelerated version encouraged me to try it.

erichabg
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:29 am

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:02 pm

moojuiceuk wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 5:39 pm
What happens if you go to Configuration -> DVB Inputs -> Networks and look at the DVB-T Network row. Is there a # Services with a number other than zero, as well as 9 # Muxes? Try pressing Force Scan, see if it re-scans the 9 Muxes for services?
Also here: 19 muxes but zero services.

erichabg
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:29 am

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:16 pm

journalct -t tvheadend shows always errors like:

mpegts: 530MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 007D: "scan" unsubscribing
.. tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 490MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 007F: "scan" subscribing to mux "490MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 490MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 007F: "scan" unsubscribing
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 546MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0081: "scan" subscribing to mux "546MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 546MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0081: "scan" unsubscribing
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 730MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0083: "scan" subscribing to mux "730MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 730MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0083: "scan" unsubscribing
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 618MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0085: "scan" subscribing to mux "618MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 618MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..

:?

6by9
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:09 pm

Did it find the muxes, or did you tell it which transmitter that your aerial points at? Those log lines are what I normally see if the aerial is disconnected.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

erichabg
Posts: 15
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:08 pm

6by9 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:09 pm
Did it find the muxes, or did you tell it which transmitter that your aerial points at? Those log lines are what I normally see if the aerial is disconnected.
I selected the predefined muxes for Germany - Bayern.

6by9
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:26 pm

erichabg wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:08 pm
6by9 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 5:09 pm
Did it find the muxes, or did you tell it which transmitter that your aerial points at? Those log lines are what I normally see if the aerial is disconnected.
I selected the predefined muxes for Germany - Bayern.
So it hasn't found anything, you've told it which muxes to look for. When it tries those frequencies it's not finding a service there.
Having just reread your first post, if the transmitter is only 4km away then you may actually be swamping the receiver. Certainly don't use an amplifier! If you have another DVB-T receiver (eg your TV), then check your aerial does give a reasonable signal there.

It's possible that the frequency list that Tvheadend has is incorrect (certainly the UK keep on retuning frequencies). There is an app called w_scan that does a sweep of all UHF channels for DVB-T and T2 services. It should be in the repos. Docs https://www.linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/W_scan. Do stop tvheadend first, otherwise it'll complain that the adapter is in use.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

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Paul Webster
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:51 am

Is there a configuration setting in TVHeadend to flag a mux as hosting DVB-T2 rather than DVB-T services?

noggin
Posts: 98
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:58 am

Paul Webster wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 9:51 am
Is there a configuration setting in TVHeadend to flag a mux as hosting DVB-T2 rather than DVB-T services?
Yes - you edit the Mux in the Muxes tab. In that tab you select DVB-T or DVB-T2 from a drop down. Early T2 USB sticks ignore this as they auto-detected, but most tuners now seem to need it explicitly set.

noggin
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:12 am

erichabg wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:16 pm
journalct -t tvheadend shows always errors like:

mpegts: 530MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 007D: "scan" unsubscribing
.. tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 490MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 007F: "scan" subscribing to mux "490MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 490MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 007F: "scan" unsubscribing
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 546MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0081: "scan" subscribing to mux "546MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 546MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0081: "scan" unsubscribing
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 730MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0083: "scan" subscribing to mux "730MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 730MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0083: "scan" unsubscribing
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 618MHz in DVB-T Network - tuning on Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T #0
..tvheadend[571]: subscription: 0085: "scan" subscribing to mux "618MHz", weight: 6, adapter: "Sony CXD2880 #0 : DVB-T
..tvheadend[571]: mpegts: 618MHz in DVB-T Network - scan no data, failed
..

:?
That shows you are not tuning any muxes.

If you are in Germany - then the predefined lists in TV Headend may well be out of date and refer back to the old German SD MPEG2 DVB-T system.

Germany has migrated (or is in the process of migrating) to DVB-T2 (using HD HEVC/H265) and will need new mux information potentially. It's entirely possible the frequency database in TV Headend is still putting in the muxes for the old German SD standard.

What TV transmitter do you receive your TV from? I might be able to google to assist you with the correct settings for TV Headend.

I always configure my TV Headend installs manually from a frequency list, rather than using the wizard. It's a bit more involved, but once you master it you have a much better understanding of how TV Headend, and DVB-T/T2, works.

TV Headend has the concept of Networks. These are different TV sources. For a single DVB-T/T2 tuner you probably just want a single Network. (In the UK I call mine Freeview HD. You might want to call yours DVB-T2 or Freenet or something)

Each adaptor is associated with one or more networks. This is how TV Headend knows which TV adaptor to use for each network.

You then add muxes to the Network. A mux is a DVB-T/T2 broadcast on a single frequency that can carry multiple TV, Radio, Text etc. services. The Mux information needed will be as a minimum the frequency, whether the mux is DVB-T or DVB-T2, and the bandwidth of the mux (I think Germany uses 7MHz muxes, whereas the UK uses 8MHz) You may be able to leave the other settings on AUTO, or you may also need to enter the Constellation (which in Germany on DVB-T2 is 64QAM) and the Transmission Mode (Which in Germany on DVB-T2 is either 16k carriers or 32k carriers. It seems to vary by region for the ARD and ZDF muxes). I've never had to enter manual details for Guard Interval or FEC/Hierarchy.

I guess in Germany you will add an ARD Mux, a ZDF Mux, and probably a regional Mux? The 3 Freenet muxes carrying Sat 1, Pro 7 etc. are all encrypted (which means they aren't going to be receivable with just a Pi and a TV uHAT) - and the only free services the 3 Freenet muxes carry are Shopping and Religion?

Once these 3 muxes have scanned you will have services in the Services tab, but these won't be mapped to channels. You need to then click on the Map Services Dropdown. This will then associate a Service with a Channel. In Germany I think you use an EIT DVB EPG so the default EPG grabber should just work.

IF you are using Kodi (which on a Pi for TV Viewing which may be an issue for 1080p50 HEVC - which is the standard used for most German DVB-T2) then you might also want to enable the option to use the channel numbers from the backend in the Live TV and PVR settings menus in Kodi. This will mean your channels in Kodi map to the channel numbers used by the broadcasters.

erichabg
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:29 am

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:14 pm

Thanks for this comprehensive information.

I have had a look on the 19 muxes and all were configured for DVB-T not T2. So it seams that the predefined list of tvheadend is outdated.
Since April we have DBV-T2 here in Augsburg. The regarding settings are listed here https://tvhelfer.de/location/260.

But even when I enter the settings manually the scan result is still "failed"
Here is what I have entered for "ZDF"
muxes.JPG
muxes.JPG (60 KiB) Viewed 6518 times
Any ideas what's wrong here?

6by9
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:48 pm

https://git.linuxtv.org/dtv-scan-tables ... /de-Bayern is the upstream source in the Linux world for your DVB settings.
The change log for that includes an update in April 2017, pulling information from http://dvb-t-bayern.de/ (my German isn't good enough to find the technical information).

Again I'll recommend using w_scan to actually run a scan for channels, rather than relying on the preloaded tables.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

noggin
Posts: 98
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:52 pm

I'd only enter the following settings :

Delivery System : DVB-T2
Frequency : 634000000 (for ARD-BR)
Bandwidth : 7MHz THIS WAS WRONG - GERMANY USES 8MHz MUXES IT APPEARS
Constellation : 64/QAM
Transmission Mode : 16K

I'd leave Guard Interval, FEC, Hierarchy and PLP as AUTO or the defaults. (It MAY be worth changing PLP from -1 to 0)

Once the Network that Mux is associated with is associated with the adaptor then a Force Scan with that Network selected in the Networks tab should show you how you are going. I'd only add a single mux. You should see the scan queue initially say 1 mux is in the queue, then it will find services in that mux. if you have Network Discovery enabled (it is by default) in the Networks tab for your Network it may automatically create muxes for ZDF and BR (and possibly Freenet 1-3 too)
Last edited by noggin on Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

noggin
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:04 pm

In fact - I've just tried a 'from scratch' start in the UK on Crystal Palace - which is my local transmitter.

I just needed to enter the delivery system, frequency and bandwidth. I could leave the constellation and transmission mode on Auto and it all autodetected fine.

One thing that is easy to miss is that you have to add your named network to the adaptor In TV Adaptors Parameters :
Adaptor.jpeg
Adaptor.jpeg (230.6 KiB) Viewed 6503 times
PSB3 Mux.jpeg
PSB3 Mux.jpeg (240.04 KiB) Viewed 6503 times

erichabg
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 9:29 am

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:32 pm

6by9 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:48 pm
https://git.linuxtv.org/dtv-scan-tables ... /de-Bayern is the upstream source in the Linux world for your DVB settings.
You make my day!!!

Entering the settings from the side abouve made the trick!!!

Thank You very much! :D :D

noggin
Posts: 98
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 1:55 pm

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:43 pm

erichabg wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:32 pm
6by9 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:48 pm
https://git.linuxtv.org/dtv-scan-tables ... /de-Bayern is the upstream source in the Linux world for your DVB settings.
You make my day!!!

Entering the settings from the side abouve made the trick!!!

Thank You very much! :D :D
Ah - it looks as if Germany is 8MHz not 7MHz for DVB-T/T2 - that was my mistake. Apologies.

pmposse
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:15 am

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:37 am

I have exactly the same issue but in the UK, using the UK transmitters from the list, in my case United Kingdom - Emley Moor.
I have tried my most local one and another two transmitters that I can pick up some services on using my TV's tuner but the Pi hat finds nothing, if I search using the 'Default' tvheadend setting with around 55 muxes on I can pick up 10 or so SD (DVB-T) channels BBC one etc. No amount of mucking about with the settings in the above posts has helped me find my local transmissions in DVB-T or T2.
Probably just my lack of ability to find the correct frequencies to manually add but I seem to have hit a wall with figuring out what they are for my local transmitter.
I found some information on other sites that the tvheadend frequencies may be out of date but couldn't figure out what the correct ones were.

6by9
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Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:53 am

pmposse wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:37 am
I have exactly the same issue but in the UK, using the UK transmitters from the list, in my case United Kingdom - Emley Moor.
I have tried my most local one and another two transmitters that I can pick up some services on using my TV's tuner but the Pi hat finds nothing, if I search using the 'Default' tvheadend setting with around 55 muxes on I can pick up 10 or so SD (DVB-T) channels BBC one etc. No amount of mucking about with the settings in the above posts has helped me find my local transmissions in DVB-T or T2.
Probably just my lack of ability to find the correct frequencies to manually add but I seem to have hit a wall with figuring out what they are for my local transmitter.
I found some information on other sites that the tvheadend frequencies may be out of date but couldn't figure out what the correct ones were.
Almost exactly the same link as I'd given erichabg - https://git.linuxtv.org/dtv-scan-tables ... -EmleyMoor

Generally speaking go to https://git.linuxtv.org/dtv-scan-tables.git/tree/dvb-t and choose your transmitter.
Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi Trading. Views expressed are still personal views.
I'm not interested in doing contracts for bespoke functionality - please don't ask.

pmposse
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:15 am

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:13 am

For crying out loud! I was poking about on that site and completely missed it. Couldn't see the wood for the trees. Thank you.

pmposse
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:15 am

Re: TV HAT - finds muxes but no services

Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:12 pm

I tried adding them manually but it still comes back as FAIL and can't find any services. It's weird, the only services I can pick up are on 482 or 506Mhz (from the 'default' MUX list) which I can't see on any of the local transmitters.
Would the TV Hat have 'less strength' than a standard tuner somehow or is it more likely that it's TVheadend not setting itself up correctly? When it fails to find any services when I've set the mux up manually it seems to fail over very quickly as if it's not even trying.

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