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bensimmo
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Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:29 pm

I was going to bump the other topic, but cannot.
So here we are.
Tidier to me, especially the OS section.

Found Astro Pi, so all good there too.
Ego still works just the same.

(I'm using mobile for reference)



I personally would still like RaspberryPi Foundation involved modules sections off Python so they can be chatted about (and known about).

Also expand MagPi, to include HackSpace and probably the education one and why not all the Press stuff.



All in all, much appreciated.
:-)

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liz
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:55 pm

Thanks @Bensimmo! This is really a work in progress; I've done the big shuffle (and a bit of pruning - no posts have been deleted, but some have been moved to different forums so we've got fewer subforums), but it shouldn't be considered the end of the process. If you guys have thoughts about how things could be better organised here, please leave a post!
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feelslikeautumn
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:13 pm

I've never understood the 'other' OS sub-forum. Surely I'm not the only person who took a long time to realise that there was a random section of posts at the bottom of the page?

I've also never understood what goes in General Discussion, Advanced, Beginners, Troubleshooting. It would be better if they were all rolled into one.

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bensimmo
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:25 pm

Interesting one.
I see General as just talk related to RaspberryPi, chatting.

I see
Beginners as a nice point the new can go and be hand held through whatever. They can say hello too.
No question to daft, don't assume I know own anything.

Troubleshooting as just that. But I always think of it as initial common hardware problems over software problems.

Advanced I think of as, I'm doing something odd here, I need to chat about it and get other input.

But that's me and there is no subtitle helping out.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm

Thanks Liz & JamesH, you've done a good job.
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

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ejolson
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:25 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm
Thanks Liz & JamesH, you've done a good job.
Is there a reason the Android subforum under Other is locked?

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:59 pm

ejolson wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:25 pm
Is there a reason the Android subforum under Other is locked?
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=100758

ejolson
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:13 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:59 pm
ejolson wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:25 pm
Is there a reason the Android subforum under Other is locked?
viewtopic.php?f=73&t=100758
Sorry, I missed that and thought the locking might have been an accident. Apparently it happened a long time ago. Thanks for answering.

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Paeryn
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:04 pm

You must've been burning the midnight oil to get the forum so organised, well done.

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Heater
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 am

Forum reshuffle is nice.

I have one little gripe

Why is it that when I hit "Other Programming Languages" the first thing that hits me in the face is "Windows 10 for IoT"?

Then "Wolfram". If I don't scroll down I might think that's it. The actual stuff of the section, posts about other programming languages, is hidden out of sight.

Never mind that Windows 10 for IoT is not a programming language and so does not belong there at all.

Why Wolfram gets a headline spot with so few users posting is a mystery as well.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jahboater
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:20 am

Heater wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 am
Forum reshuffle is nice.

I have one little gripe

Why is it that when I hit "Other Programming Languages" the first thing that hits me in the face is "Windows 10 for IoT"?

Then "Wolfram". If I don't scroll down I might think that's it. The actual stuff of the section, posts about other programming languages, is hidden out of sight.

Never mind that Windows 10 for IoT is not a programming language and so does not belong there at all.
I agree with all of that.
Definitely better now - thanks!
Why Wolfram gets a headline spot with so few users posting is a mystery as well.
They are not sorted by popularity, otherwise Python would get the first line in "Programming", C/C++ the second line, and Bare metal/Assembler the third line.

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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:25 pm

Heater wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 am
Why is it that when I hit "Other Programming Languages" the first thing that hits me in the face is "Windows 10 for IoT"?
It also doesn't help that the forum considers them all for the "unread messages" flag. It's unnecessary busywork to go in to a top level group and find that there's only something posted into some sub-group I don't care about. A deep hierarchy is not helpful for the way this forum software works.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:40 pm

I use the "Mark Subforum Read" links viewforum.php?f=56&mark=forums to avoid the stuff I'm not interested in like "Graphics Programming".
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

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Heater
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:02 pm

jahboater,
They are not sorted by popularity...
I would not expect them to be.

Why then do Windows 10 IoT and Wolfram get headline position and a subsection of of their own?

Again, especially as Win IoT does not even belong there as it is not a language, and Wolfram is, meh, just another language.

Clearly there is some favoritism going on.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

feelslikeautumn
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:34 pm

Heater wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 am
The actual stuff of the section, posts about other programming languages, is hidden out of sight.
Yes this is the point I was making earlier in the thread! I would expect the posts at the bottom of the page to be the latest posts from all the subsections/subforums, not essentially an untitled hidden subforum.

hippy
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:09 pm

I think a very decent job has been done. Well done. My own thoughts -

"Announcements" should be at the top of the Community section. "Other..." should always be the very last in all sections.

Within "Programming", "Python" should appear above "Java", and "Scratch" should drop down in to the "Other programming languages" section. It may worth adding a "NodeRed" in the "other"section considering it is Pi supported.

The "For Sale" and "Wanted" sections could reasonably be moved to the bottom of "Community".

Forris
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:27 pm

hippy wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:09 pm
I think a very decent job has been done. Well done. My own thoughts -

"Announcements" should be at the top of the Community section. "Other..." should always be the very last in all sections.

Within "Programming", "Python" should appear above "Java", and "Scratch" should drop down in to the "Other programming languages" section. It may worth adding a "NodeRed" in the "other"section considering it is Pi supported.

The "For Sale" and "Wanted" sections could reasonably be moved to the bottom of "Community".
Why do you think Scratch should be sent to the void that is 'Other Programming Languages'? It's the most popular programming language for Education (especially at primary) which is what the Pi was designed for.

jahboater
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:15 pm

Forris wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:27 pm
Why do you think Scratch should be sent to the void that is 'Other Programming Languages'? It's the most popular programming language for Education (especially at primary) which is what the Pi was designed for.
I agree.
If they are going to be ordered, then the criteria should be "relevance to the Pi and education", "popularity and the number of posts", and finally give preference to languages that are "native" to the Raspbian OS (that is come pre installed for example). Scratch doesn't get many posts but I think it is important in the Pi world.

Obviously Heater is right "Windows 10 for IoT" is clearly in the wrong place, but thats just a mistake.

hippy
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:24 pm

Forris wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:27 pm
hippy wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:09 pm
Within "Programming", "Python" should appear above "Java", and "Scratch" should drop down in to the "Other programming languages" section.
Why do you think Scratch should be sent to the void that is 'Other Programming Languages'?
I don't think 'Other Programming Languages' is a void. But I don't think Scratch is a mainstream programming language in the same sense that C/C++, Python and Java is.
Forris wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:27 pm
It's the most popular programming language for Education (especially at primary) which is what the Pi was designed for.
Perhaps move it to "Education / Staffroom, classroom and projects" alongside Astro Pi, Mathematica, and other education related subjects. It is, as you note, primarily used within an education environment.

Don't get me wrong; I have nothing against Scratch. I have done a lot of work related to supporting Scratch and its users but we are talking about Raspberry Pi forum structure here, trying to improve it, rationalise it, putting things where most appropriate.

Heater
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:55 pm

I'd be quite happy with programming languages being ordered alphabetically.

Of course node-red is not a programming language as such but as it is based on Javascript such discussion can be held in the new Javascript language section. Why one of the most used and widely deployed languages in the world has no section of its own is a mystery to me. Especially as it has a lot of Pi specific support in it's node.js and node-red incarnations.
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

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bensimmo
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:41 pm

I would hazard a guess, they were put in the order they are added and someone came up with the names in their head.
IIRC most forum software allows you to reorder them.
Python, Scratch, NodeRed, C are the 'languages and programming structure' they use on their website, the main articles, you cannot tuck them away even if you don't wish to call it a programming language/tool, HTML/CSS/webpages could even be in there as many consider it a similar thing, while there are many places to go for that, people do like to keep close to what they are using.
It's nice the other languages now has programming in the wording, it's much easier to pick out on ego search :)

Windows10 IoT is badly named, but if you read the sticky you'll see why it is placed there. It's for programming with respect to that platform as a target, there isn't one for Android Things though.
I still think Win10 IOT (and A-Things if it was added) both would be better off linking to the respective community.

Anyway, now it's altered a bit again since I last looked. (I think) The feel of where RaspberryPi is now at compared to when I started, let alone when the forum structure was put together has changed quite a bit.

ejolson
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:30 pm

Heater wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:55 pm
I'd be quite happy with programming languages being ordered alphabetically.
Alternatively, they could be organized based on number of posts. That way the languages people have the most questions about and find the most confusing would be first.

While reorganizing the forums is great, another change might also help: Identifying posts from users which have been banned. That way not so much effort is spent answering questions posed by spammers for the sake of registration.

Heater
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:23 pm

ejolson,
Alternatively, they could be organized based on number of posts. That way the languages people have the most questions about and find the most confusing would be first.
That would work for me.

I doubt that the forum software can automate that.

As it stands a human decides what order the languages are in. And what languages are worth listing and what are "other".
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jamesh
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:22 am

Thanks all for the comments. When we reordered we took in to account how many posts each subforum had, but that doesn't necessarily mean we thought that was the right order.

Win10IoT is clearly in the wrong place, I'll try and get that sorted out.

I'll take a look at "Announcements" and "Others" as mentioned below.
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bensimmo
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Re: Forum Shuffle

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:34 am

Could you move your announcement post into announcements as well?

Return to “General discussion”