Heater
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:07 am

Am I wrong that most of the senior embedded tinkerers were born from the era of counting bits/bytes, dollars/cents and avoiding difficult to source components?
Ha!, this not so young tinkerer was born in a time when there were no bits or bytes to be had for the common man, it was an analog world. We counted vacuum tubes, then transistors in pounds, shillings and pence! Everything was almost impossible to source.

A computer was a far away dream when I was 10 years old. I recall finding a book that described how to build a "computer" from relays and rotary telephone dials, it was at least some kind of crude calculating device. I did not have the skill or resources to pursue it.

Digital logic, TTL, came into my life age 13 or 14. Now I can start counting bits! Expensive bits they were too. I did not get to program a computer, a main frame, till I was 17. The micro-processor, bare chips mind or crude, expensive dev boards, could be first had when I was 20.

And kids here today are complaining because they can't by lots of full up Linux running computers for the price of a Big Mac! Amazing what progress has occurred.
Investing in a development platform is a long-term commitment that one does not take lightly.
It certainly takes patience, time and effort.
I thought that moving to the raspberry pi camp would offer the inspiration, resources, and support needed to chase random ideas for projects.
It certainly seems to have done that. There over 10 million Pi out there and I see new projects every day. No doubt thousands of projects I do not see. The bigger Pi fuel all that enthusiasm admirably, and for a very good price.

This whole squabble over the Pi zero is like kids fighting over the free toy that drops out of a corn flake packet at breakfast time.

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rpdom
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:44 am

Heater wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:07 am
This whole squabble over the Pi zero is like kids fighting over the free toy that drops out of a corn flake packet at breakfast time.
That reminds me of the first "computers" that I built. They were made of a cornflakes box with some holes punched in them near the top and drinking straws pushed through the holes. Inside were a number of pieces of cards with matching holes punched in them. Some of them had slots cut instead of holes. Pulling out certain straws meant some of the cards dropped out of the bottom of the box. Simple logic.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:51 am

Heater wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:07 am
... And kids here today are complaining because they can't by lots of full up Linux running computers for the price of a Big Mac!
First of all, tell me you would not buy lots if you could. We all would buy them in 5 packs if we could. And the "complaining" is not so much that we can't, but that the 1-per-customer deal was not made clear from the get go. If that original announcement video had stated that our FIRST (and only the first) Pi Zero would be $5, there would be a lot less drama going on.

As I said before, this was all handled very badly. If the goal was 1-per-customer at $5, then not only should that have been made clear in the original press release, the requirement/price for more should have also been made clear. Something like, first one = $5, more = $8/each (because believing that RPF could actually limit it to 1-per-customer is incredibly naive).

If something like a $5/$8 price structure had been done for the original Pi Zero, we'd still think it was great at $8 (say, in a 5 pack for $40).

Sure, it would still be impossible to coordinate a true 1-only at $5, but it would be somewhat self regulating since each single order would have the associated shipping charge to factor in. Five single orders would cost more than a single 5-pack (assuming the $40/5 price). Quantities could still be controlled by the same 1-per-order limit for the packs. This may not be a perfect plan either (I've spent<5 minutes thinking about it), but it's far better than the confusing 1-per-customer mess that we're in now.
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Heater
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:55 am

rpdom,

That's brilliant. Never mind the cornflakes or the free toy, use the box!

Kids today could build such a computer using the box the Pi 3 comes in if they can't get hold of a Zero! :)

I recall we did some exercises in maths in school using such a system of punched cards and sticks.

Why, because BC (Before Computers) they collected census data and such on punched cards. They could then extract interesting information out of all those cards by using sticks and the slots in the cards.

Hence the rise of IBM and it's card tabulating machines, then the use of punch cards in computers, then punch tape, then.... well you know.

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rpdom
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:04 am

Heater wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:55 am
rpdom,

That's brilliant. Never mind the cornflakes or the free toy, use the box!

Kids today could build such a computer using the box the Pi 3 comes in if they can't get hold of a Zero! :)
Heater, thanks. I'm now considering making up a few of these to show to the kids in the Code Club I run.

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:06 am

Heater wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:55 am
... then punch tape, then.... well you know.
I had a punched tape drive for my IMSAI 8080 (or was it an Altair). When I got my first Atari with the ability to record data to rewritable magnetic cassette tapes I thought I was living in the future. Man, the Atari 800 was the bomb. 48KB of RAM, and not one, but TWO dedicated graphics processors! Made the Apple and Commodore computers look like stone tablets! Wish I still had that Atari 800. I do still have a highly modified Atari 1200XL, but I sold my old 800 a long time ago (funny story behind that, but too tired to tell it right now).
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jamesh
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:43 am

Jednorozec wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:38 pm
jamesh wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:41 pm
From the RPF's point of view, as long as people are unable to buy large quantities at the educational price, then the desire to prevent scalping is achieved. That is whole reason behind the official line.
Does that mean that all of these listings on ebay are imaginary? https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... w&_sacat=0 :evil:
It is quite possible, indeed almost certain, that someone bought a load of Zero's in bulk, at the higher price, and is now selling them on, at a higher price. Hence the higher price. It is not possible AFAIK, to buy in the quantities they appear to be selling at, and get the educational price.

Anyway, we have been rehashing the same issues over and over, so will lock the thread. When any news comes out on the Zero and pricing, it will be announced on the blog.
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HawaiianPi
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:52 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:43 am
Anyway, we have been rehashing the same issues over and over, so will lock the thread. When any news comes out on the Zero and pricing, it will be announced on the blog.
Hey James,

I think you forgot to lock the thread. :mrgreen:
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hippy
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:29 am

I do have one question: Are the Pi Zero W which Pi Supply are selling in multiples with headers fitted bought at educational prices or at bulk prices ?

I doubt anyone will give an answer to that but that seems to be the biggest obstacle to trying to run one's own resell venture. Either way it doesn't appear worth competing.

Heater
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:35 am

rpdom,
Heater, thanks. I'm now considering making up a few of these to show to the kids in the Code Club I run.
An excellent idea.

I think it would be great to get the kids making up their own punch cards. Perhaps as a survey of random facts from the group.

It's a great exercise in logic and set theory for those who have never done such things before.

At least something fun, useful and cheap came out of this idle Pi Zero chatter :)

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HawaiianPi
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Re: Pi Zero W availability

Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:01 am

hippy wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:29 am
I do have one question: Are the Pi Zero W which Pi Supply are selling in multiples with headers fitted bought at educational prices or at bulk prices ?

I doubt anyone will give an answer to that but that seems to be the biggest obstacle to trying to run one's own resell venture. Either way it doesn't appear worth competing.
I believe authorised dealers get them from RPF/RPT all at the same price. There is only one configuration (no pre-installed header, etc.). Since the restriction is selling multiple Pi Zero W at the $10 price, they are free to sell more if it's not at that price. So most dealers either bundle them with other products or install headers to offer more value for the higher price.

Not all dealers offer bundles or mods to justify the higher price of multiples. Micro Center will sell you more than one, but you pay more for everything after the first, and get nothing extra.

Raspberry Pi Zero
1 at $5.00 each
2-5 at $9.99 each
6+ at $12.99 each

They currently have a holiday special on the Zero W for $5, which is the same price as the Pi Zero 1.3, but extras cost even more.
1 at $5.00 each
2-5 at $14.99 each
6+ at $19.99 each

Unfortunately you must live near a Micro Center store to get that deal.
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