fruitoftheloom
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:59 pm

rpdom wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:47 pm
runboy93 wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:06 am
rpdom wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:35 am
Wheezy will still receive security updates while it is still supported by Debian. Support for that is planned to end on 31st May 2018. https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
"from June 2018 to end of April 2020 "
That's the support for Jessie LTS.
RPT/RPF do not support the LTS Community Supported Releases.
Retired disgracefully.....

asandford
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:59 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:15 am
Note that only the raspbian.org wheezy repo is getting updates. raspberrypi.org is not. If you don't need bug or security fixes for the desktop or pi-specific parts of the system like the kernel, then wheezy is still okay to use.
My system runs headless, so it doesn't really matter about the desktop or the bundled stuff, but is there a safe way to bring the kernel up to date (rpi-update to a known stable point)?

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rpdom
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:43 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:59 pm
RPT/RPF do not support the LTS Community Supported Releases.
Raspbian is supported by raspbian.org, not RPF/RPT although they assist the project.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:07 am

rpdom wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:43 am
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:59 pm
RPT/RPF do not support the LTS Community Supported Releases.
Raspbian is supported by raspbian.org, not RPF/RPT although they assist the project.
OK then Raspbian Developers do not support do not support the LTS Community Supported Releases. :roll:
Retired disgracefully.....

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:50 am

asandford wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:59 pm
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:15 am
Note that only the raspbian.org wheezy repo is getting updates. raspberrypi.org is not. If you don't need bug or security fixes for the desktop or pi-specific parts of the system like the kernel, then wheezy is still okay to use.
My system runs headless, so it doesn't really matter about the desktop or the bundled stuff, but is there a safe way to bring the kernel up to date (rpi-update to a known stable point)?

Yes, using rpi-update is probably a good practice if you're running wheezy, as long as you have a backup to recover from.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:10 am

asandford wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:59 pm
ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:15 am
Note that only the raspbian.org wheezy repo is getting updates. raspberrypi.org is not. If you don't need bug or security fixes for the desktop or pi-specific parts of the system like the kernel, then wheezy is still okay to use.
My system runs headless, so it doesn't really matter about the desktop or the bundled stuff, but is there a safe way to bring the kernel up to date (rpi-update to a known stable point)?
What's the harm in leaving it alone running the kernel that was last installed when you last updated Wheezy?

You either need to adopt a policy of "never update" or "always update". Building a hybrid, mongrel between those two extremes isn't sensible. Starting with a new SDCard with a fresh install of Raspbian Jessie Lite then moving your application to that is probably the best use of your time. Applying sticking plasters to something that was announced as end-of-life (except security support) in 2015 is a waste of everyone's time.
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:45 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:10 am
What's the harm in leaving it alone running the kernel that was last installed when you last updated Wheezy?

You either need to adopt a policy of "never update" or "always update". Building a hybrid, mongrel between those two extremes isn't sensible. Starting with a new SDCard with a fresh install of Raspbian Jessie Lite then moving your application to that is probably the best use of your time. Applying sticking plasters to something that was announced as end-of-life (except security support) in 2015 is a waste of everyone's time.
There have been quite a few major security issues discovered in the kernel since then. If they're going to run that image anyway, it's probably better to at least update the kernel.

Martin Frezman
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:33 pm

There have been quite a few major security issues discovered in the kernel since then. If they're going to run that image anyway, it's probably better to at least update the kernel.
That, it seems, is where you and Dougie part company.
If this post appears in the wrong forums category, my apologies.

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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:49 pm

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:45 am
There have been quite a few major security issues discovered in the kernel since then. If they're going to run that image anyway, it's probably better to at least update the kernel.
You know that, I know that. The folks that want to stick with Wheezy clearly bury their collective heads in the sand and don't want to believe that.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFIED REASON TO STICK WITH WHEEZY.

All arguments contrary to that can be proven to be false.
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Martin Frezman
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:53 pm

Anything can be proven to be false.
If this post appears in the wrong forums category, my apologies.

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:52 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:49 pm
You know that, I know that. The folks that want to stick with Wheezy clearly bury their collective heads in the sand and don't want to believe that.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFIED REASON TO STICK WITH WHEEZY.

All arguments contrary to that can be proven to be false.
Agreed

asandford
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:20 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:49 pm
THERE IS NO JUSTIFIED REASON TO STICK WITH WHEEZY.
LOL for an OS that went EOSL 18 months ago to be considered obsolete an shouldn't be used.

Today I logged onto a win2k and a RHEL4 server, both in production, at a rather large global company. Anything that isn't at least 2 years old is considered cutting edge there.

And of course there are many reasons why people stick to using an old OS (and no-one has to justify their choice of OS to anyone - and you don't need to shout, that doesn't make your statement any more valid), Windows XP is still widely used.

Companies like stability, an OS that changes major version every couple of years and drops support for the last one isn't going to be adopted, so the OP's question is real for the non-hobby market.

asandford
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:28 am

ShiftPlusOne wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:52 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:49 pm
You know that, I know that. The folks that want to stick with Wheezy clearly bury their collective heads in the sand and don't want to believe that.

THERE IS NO JUSTIFIED REASON TO STICK WITH WHEEZY.

All arguments contrary to that can be proven to be false.
Agreed
For the Pi, people can use whatever they want if they can support it themselves, for the real world (most enterprises I've worked with use RHEL or SUSE (or Solaris and AIX), not Debian), totally disagree.

hommar
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:22 am

asandford wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:28 am
most enterprises I've worked with use RHEL or SUSE (or Solaris and AIX)
enterprises I've worked with use Calculate-Linux, because it have not releases (always last release)

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DougieLawson
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:02 am

Every commercial enterprise I work for has a very strict policy of supported software only. That's one of the things that keeps me busy and pays the invoice at the end of the month.
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asandford
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:41 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:02 am
Every commercial enterprise I work for has a very strict policy of supported software only. That's one of the things that keeps me busy and pays the invoice at the end of the month.
If the company you work with is big enough, they'll make sure that any OS they choose is supported (within reason).

Once you have hardware in the mix, all your ideals go out the window. What would you do if you spent £millions on manufacturing kit and the controlling software runs on an OS that went EOSL and the company producing that software went bust?

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DougieLawson
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:00 am

asandford wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:41 am
Once you have hardware in the mix, all your ideals go out the window. What would you do if you spent £millions on manufacturing kit and the controlling software runs on an OS that went EOSL and the company producing that software went bust?
We do have hardware in the mix. The companies I've had contracts with recently were moving from IBM z196 to IBM z13 processors. Next they'll start moving to the latest product from Poughkeepsie the IBM z14. I've not worked with any specialist hardware (as it's usually a long way offboard from the mainframe).

Part of procurement for specialist hardware must include the firmware/software that comes installed with it and the policy needed for maintenance & support on that piece.

I bet the Iranians wished they'd done that with their vulnerable uranium centrifuges that the Americans & Israelis destroyed with Stuxnet. The NHS mucked up with their X-ray machines that got hit with WannaCry. The banks are sitting on a timebomb with their Windows XP computers attached to safes full of money (aka an ATM).
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asandford
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:03 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:00 am
asandford wrote:
Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:41 am
Once you have hardware in the mix, all your ideals go out the window. What would you do if you spent £millions on manufacturing kit and the controlling software runs on an OS that went EOSL and the company producing that software went bust?
We do have hardware in the mix. The companies I've had contracts with recently were moving from IBM z196 to IBM z13 processors. Next they'll start moving to the latest product from Poughkeepsie the IBM z14. I've not worked with any specialist hardware (as it's usually a long way offboard from the mainframe).

Part of procurement for specialist hardware must include the firmware/software that comes installed with it and the policy needed for maintenance & support on that piece.

I bet the Iranians wished they'd done that with their vulnerable uranium centrifuges that the Americans & Israelis destroyed with Stuxnet. The NHS mucked up with their X-ray machines that got hit with WannaCry. The banks are sitting on a timebomb with their Windows XP computers attached to safes full of money (aka an ATM).
You're a DBA, not a sys admin.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:30 am

How rude is that? I'm not a low-life DBA, I've never been a DBA, I have no "ambition" to lower my standards to those of a DBA.
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Bosse_B
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:30 am

What is DBA?
Bo Berglund
Sweden


Bosse_B
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:22 am

Why bringing in Database Administrators into this thread about orderly maintenance of Raspbian?
Bo Berglund
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ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:36 am

Bosse_B wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:22 am
Why bringing in Database Administrators into this thread about orderly maintenance of Raspbian?
I suspect the thread had run its course and might be getting locked soon.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:10 pm

Bosse_B wrote:
Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:22 am
Why bringing in Database Administrators into this thread about orderly maintenance of Raspbian?
Someone was trying to accuse me of incompetence or someone doesn't know the difference between DBAs, system programmers, system admins and application programmers. (I'm not sure I know, hence why I style myself as a "Database Troubleshooter".)
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funkytwig
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Re: Raspbian life cycle

Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:56 pm

Be good for an official page regarding this. It seems that https://wiki.debian.org/LTS is where to look but it says for jessie 'from June 2018 to end of April 2020' which is odd and seems to indicate it is not currently supported!

also from earlier is the thread 'raspbian.org wheezy repo is getting updates. raspberrypi.org is not.' So is aspbian.org the one to always use or only for old versions?

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