blueagent
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is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:10 am

liamkennedy wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:44 am
TL;DR : Batch of new Pi3B+'s - 2 out of 6 of them have the "known" 3v3 problem and are DOA.
alvian wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:58 am
Yet another short-lived RPi 3B+ with dead 3V3.

Is this a problem with the voltage supply chip as suggested by Burngate? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=219898#p1353974
i bought a raspberry pi 3 model B+ back in october 2018 {fixed typo}, will this be an issue in the future?

do newer raspberry pi 3 model B+ have better 3V3 chips?

thanks for letting me know!
Last edited by blueagent on Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.

drgeoff
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:35 am

blueagent wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:10 am
i bought a raspberry pi 3 model B+ back in october 2010
Impossible. The very first model of RPi was not launched until February 2012.

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RaTTuS
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:42 am

blueagent wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:10 am
....
i bought a raspberry pi 3 model B+ back in october 2010, will this be an issue in the future?

do newer raspberry pi 3 model B+ have better 3V3 chips?

thanks for letting me know!
2018 I assume
no this is not widespread though has occurred - if it was wide spread you would have many many more posts of the same
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jamesh
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:12 am

blueagent wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:10 am
liamkennedy wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:44 am
TL;DR : Batch of new Pi3B+'s - 2 out of 6 of them have the "known" 3v3 problem and are DOA.
alvian wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:58 am
Yet another short-lived RPi 3B+ with dead 3V3.

Is this a problem with the voltage supply chip as suggested by Burngate? viewtopic.php?f=28&t=219898#p1353974
i bought a raspberry pi 3 model B+ back in october 2010, will this be an issue in the future?

do newer raspberry pi 3 model B+ have better 3V3 chips?

thanks for letting me know!
No, not widespread at all*. We are not aware of any repeatable issues with 3v3 "out of the box", so not sure what has happened in the comment above. There has been an minor issue with shorting 3v3 to 5v causing the PMIC to die. We've done all that we can to prevent this sort of user error from damaging the board.


* We've sold many millions of Pi3's and the percentage of 3v3 failures is tiny.
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:26 am

blueagent wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 3:10 am


i bought a raspberry pi 3 model B+ back in october 2010, will this be an issue in the future?


As of October 2010, any potential problems with Raspberry Pi hardware will have been issues for the future.

The first model of Raspberry Pi board offered for sale was released in February 2012. The RPi3B+ was announced in March 2918 2018.

Edit: typo in date corrected - embarrassed to have committed the same class of error as the OP!
Last edited by B.Goode on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

gordon77
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:52 am

"RPi3B+ was announced in March 2918"
We'll look forward to that!! 😀

hippy
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:42 am

I started tracking 3B+ 3V3 failures after a number of reports over a short period of time attracted my attention.

In just over a year I have recorded about 70 individual reports of spontaneous and inexplicable loses of 3V3, one report of a number of such failures in a bulk purchase.

In addition there have been reports of loss of 3V3 after shorting the 3V3 to 0V, 5V or other voltages, along with cases where it seems 3V3 may well have been lost due to inadvertently doing that. I have not recorded those but my gut feeling is that there are probably about twice as many of those as there are which appear inexplicable.

So that's probably about 200 cases of loss of 3V3 out of however many million 3B+ and 3A+ sold.

This is all with the caveats that I only recorded what was reported in this forum, will not have seen all posts or reports, may have not recorded some, may have misclassified others. And I have no way to ascertain if inexplicable failures actually are.

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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:43 am

hippy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:42 am
I started tracking 3B+ 3V3 failures after a number of reports over a short period of time attracted my attention.

In just over a year I have recorded about 70 individual reports of spontaneous and inexplicable loses of 3V3, one report of a number of such failures in a bulk purchase.

In addition there have been reports of loss of 3V3 after shorting the 3V3 to 0V, 5V or other voltages, along with cases where it seems 3V3 may well have been lost due to inadvertently doing that. I have not recorded those but my gut feeling is that there are probably about twice as many of those as there are which appear inexplicable.

So that's probably about 200 cases of loss of 3V3 out of however many million 3B+ and 3A+ sold.

This is all with the caveats that I only recorded what was reported in this forum, will not have seen all posts or reports, may have not recorded some, may have misclassified others. And I have no way to ascertain if inexplicable failures actually are.
In all our investigations, we have not come across any failures that were proveably spontaneous. i.e. all the boards we got back had been 'abused' in some way. But let's assume your 200, and multiple by 10 to increase the failure capture rate. We've sold about 3M devices with PMIC in, so that's 2000 failures out of 3M, a rate of 0.06%, and most of those will be user error.....

It's really not a big issue.
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hippy
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:25 am

jamesh wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:43 am
It's really not a big issue.
I'm willing to accept that, and have said so in other posts. I have never said it's a large, widespread, or major problem. It isn't.

Of course the problem with any measure of how bad or not anything is does depend on how the raw data is presented and how that's taken -

2000 out of 3 million is just 0.06% - pretty small.

It would also be 5 Pi's losing their 3V3 each and every day if averaged out since its launch - which will sound much worse to many.

The measure I believe people will most easily comprehend is; "one in every 1500 will lose its 3V3".

The most negative representation would be to report it as a percentage increase in failures from before the 3B+ was launched. I'm not even going to go there because such figures are usually only used to paint things as worse than they are.

blueagent
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:43 am

sorry for the typo! i meant to say October 2018! silly me!

thanks for clearing this up for me everyone!
gordon77 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:52 am
"RPi3B+ was announced in March 2918"
We'll look forward to that!! 😀
SWEET! :D

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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:37 pm

hippy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:25 am
The measure I believe people will most easily comprehend is; "one in every 1500 will lose its 3V3".
But that statement is untrue. And shows up the problem with making implications from statistics, because that figure is predicated on people shorting out the devices, which is nothing to do with the device itself (aside from it being vulnerable to shorting out)

For example, if you took 1M Pi's and used them without touching the GPIO's or abusing them in anyway, you would not see the issue. So immediately you now have a 1 in a million figure.
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:28 pm

I do have a lot of Raspberry Pi . From the first model to the latest one.

They all have been abused but the only one I did manage to damage was the PI3B+. I hook up a protoboard without disconnect the power on the PI and the coupling capacitor on the protoboard was enough to blow the 3.3V on it. Since then when I make a project with any Pi3 I disconnect the power before adding any parts who needs 3.3V.

hippy
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:35 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:37 pm
hippy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:25 am
The measure I believe people will most easily comprehend is; "one in every 1500 will lose its 3V3".
But that statement is untrue.
It's based on your "We've sold about 3M devices with PMIC in, so that's 2000 failures out of 3M, a rate of 0.06%". That is 1 in 1500; 3M / 2000 = 1500.

I was merely pointing out how any stated figure can be presented in differing ways and may be perceived differently.

I thought those failures were being stated in the context of PMIC and 3V3 failures, but perhaps not.

Maybe we should just stick to real numbers. All I know is about 70 people have reported spontaneous and inexplicable 3V3 failures, feel that about twice that number have reported 3V3 failure after shorting 3V3 or may well have done that.
Last edited by hippy on Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:17 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:43 am
In all our investigations, we have not come across any failures that were proveably spontaneous. i.e. all the boards we got back had been 'abused' in some way. But let's assume your 200, and multiple by 10 to increase the failure capture rate. We've sold about 3M devices with PMIC in, so that's 2000 failures out of 3M, a rate of 0.06%, and most of those will be user error.....
jamesh wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:37 pm
hippy wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:25 am
The measure I believe people will most easily comprehend is; "one in every 1500 will lose its 3V3".
But that statement is untrue. And shows up the problem with making implications from statistics, ...
To quote Mark Twain (who attributed it to Disraeli, but may have been lying):
"Lies, damn lies, and statistics"

What would be useful, at least to a statistician, would be the failure rate of non-PMIC Pis similarly returned.
That of course would assume those would have a similar abuse-rate, which wouldn't be true of Zeros, many of which would have badly soldered-on headers

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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 2:32 pm

Burngate wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:17 pm
To quote Mark Twain (who attributed it to Disraeli, but may have been lying statistical):
"Lies, damn lies, and statistics"
FTFY :lol:
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mattmiller
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Re: is dead 3V3 a widespread issue?

Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:12 pm

There has been an minor issue with shorting 3v3 to 5v causing the PMIC to die. We've done all that we can to prevent this sort of user error from damaging the board.
Does that mean changes have been made to to the original Pi3B+ design to mitigate this issue?

Is so , what changes have been made?

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