MisterData
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Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sat Jun 20, 2015 9:34 pm

Hi,
Just installed NOOBS on my Pi2 and don't see any of the programs and system tools from my last Pi B+!!
what happened? first I only get to choose Raspbian, now all that made a noob like me get around and do stuff, is gone! :(
I can't be doing sudo apt-get this and that. I'm a Nooooob.
H.E.L.P

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kusti8
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:47 am

Well, can you be more specific. Now is the time to learn, find a good Linux tutorial online and read it.

The UI has gotten better, not worse and apt-get has always been the way to install programs.
There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't.

klricks
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:49 am

Almost everything is still installed but not in the menu.
If you are looking for the WIFI tools than It is now on the toolbar (Right click on the network icon).

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=86935
https://www.raspberrypi.org/changes-to- ... interface/

Note that NOOBs is not an OS, It is an OS installer and recovery tool. As mentioned in the above links, Raspbian is the only OS included in the NOOBS download. To get others you need to have a wired network connection at time of install.

You can use a package manager to search for what is already installed.
Aptitude is already installed:

Code: Select all

sudo aptitude
OR install a GUI PM.

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get insall synaptic
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated Raspbian Buster w/ Desktop OS.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:42 am

And how has your reply helped me? beside being sarcastic? I don't need you to tell me when it's time to do what.
You don't have to reply just for the sake of replying and putting people down.
Kusti8's advice was worth exactly what you paid for it.

IOW, welcome to the world of free online help forums. Always worth what you pay for it.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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kusti8
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:15 pm

MisterData wrote:
kusti8 wrote:Well, can you be more specific. Now is the time to learn, find a good Linux tutorial online and read it.
The UI has gotten better, not worse and apt-get has always been the way to install programs.
And how has your reply helped me? beside being sarcastic? I don't need you to tell me when it's time to do what.
You don't have to reply just for the sake of replying and putting people down.
I wasn't putting anybody down and I wasn't sarcastic. And I wasn't telling you what time to do what as you put it, I was simply suggesting to read a Linux book because they are very helpful. You don't have to take my advice. I was wondering what you were talking about because your initial post wasn't very detailed. My reply helped by trying to get more information at what changed so we can help you better. Right now it's more of a hit and miss.
There are 10 types of people: those who understand binary and those who don't.

Jonsmiller
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:16 pm

I'm not sure of what the tools are but I purchased this product to do one thing, load a program via a thumb drive. I don't want to learn a OS and learn coding. I wanted to plug in the thumb drive and install the program on it*. Half the people I email say connect to the net and download (well I have DSL and apparently you can't connect to the net with that). This is not a new hobby for me, I don't need a new hobby. I have had lots of nice folks give me good advice but the basic problem is that the RPI2-MODB-8GB-NOOBS doesn't work as advertised. The non ability to just plug in a thumb drive is a no starter.
* I haven't even got to the point to know if the RB Pi will run the program or not. That could be a whole new hair pulling experience.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:40 pm

@ Jonsmiller,

What's your relationship to MisterData?
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

klricks
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:02 pm

Jonsmiller wrote:I'm not sure of what the tools are but I purchased this product to do one thing, load a program via a thumb drive. I don't want to learn a OS and learn coding. I wanted to plug in the thumb drive and install the program on it*. Half the people I email say connect to the net and download (well I have DSL and apparently you can't connect to the net with that). This is not a new hobby for me, I don't need a new hobby. I have had lots of nice folks give me good advice but the basic problem is that the RPI2-MODB-8GB-NOOBS doesn't work as advertised. The non ability to just plug in a thumb drive is a no starter.
* I haven't even got to the point to know if the RB Pi will run the program or not. That could be a whole new hair pulling experience.
Please start a new thread. It is confusing to have replies to your unrelated questions mixed in with replies to the OP.
Unless specified otherwise my response is based on the latest and fully updated Raspbian Buster w/ Desktop OS.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:05 pm

Please start a new thread. It is confusing to have replies to your unrelated questions mixed in with replies to the OP.
I assumed (and continue to assume) that "Jonsmiller" and "MisterData" are one and the same person. Probably wasn't getting the right responses as the first ID, so created another ID.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

beta-tester
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:06 pm

MisterData wrote:Hi,
Just installed NOOBS on my Pi2 and don't see any of the programs and system tools from my last Pi B+!!
what happened? first I only get to choose Raspbian, now all that made a noob like me get around and do stuff, is gone! :(
I can't be doing sudo apt-get this and that. I'm a Nooooob.
H.E.L.P
can you please more precisely...
what things you are missing on your RPi2 that is on your RPi1B+?
what is installed on your RPi1B+ and what on your RPi2 (distro and kernel version, ...)?
you are using the 'startx' user interface exclusively or are you familary with the terminal console?

BTW: if you are that a nooooob as you said, for what you need a second RPi, if you haven't learned how to work with your first RPi?
{ I only give negative feedback }
RPi Model B (rev1, 256MB) & B (rev2, 512MB) & B+, RPi2B, RPi3B, RPi3B+, RPiZeroW, ...

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:12 pm

beta-tester wrote:
MisterData wrote:Hi,
Just installed NOOBS on my Pi2 and don't see any of the programs and system tools from my last Pi B+!!
what happened? first I only get to choose Raspbian, now all that made a noob like me get around and do stuff, is gone! :(
I can't be doing sudo apt-get this and that. I'm a Nooooob.
H.E.L.P
can you please more precisely...
what things you are missing on your RPi2 that is on your RPi1B+?
what is installed on your RPi1B+ and what on your RPi2 (distro and kernel version, ...)?
Please see and understand this response that I posted on a similar thread:

--- Text copied in from elsewhere ---
This is certainly the conventional view - as expressed in the various postings so far on this thread - but it isn't necessarily valid.

Consider the big UI change made a few versions back - where they removed all the desktop icons. This move was, when you think about it, classic Linux-thinking. It gives the desktop a clean, sterile look - which appeals to us Linux/hacker types. But to a different class of user, well, sterile is not good. They want to see a desktop teaming with life - like they get when they buy a laptop from Walmart - teaming with crapware, yes, but teaming with life nonetheless.

Since I don't believe in the perpetual upgrade cycle often espoused by posters on this forum, I still have a B+ running the old version, teaming with icons. Although personally, I can see both sides, I can definitely see how other people would much prefer the old look.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

Jonsmiller
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:20 pm

" It gives the desktop a clean, sterile look - which appeals to us Linux/hacker types. But to a different class of user, well, sterile is not good. They want to see a desktop teaming with life - like they get when they buy a laptop from Walmart - teaming with crapware, yes, but teaming with life nonetheless."

Well I tend to agree to a certain point (there is a lot of crapware on a modern computer). But are there basic things a computer should do? I would think the ability to plug in a flash drive would be basic. As to the internet there are still lots of dial up in use, lots of DSL in use, and now I not sure of what type of internet connection this device will work with?

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:43 pm

Jonsmiller wrote:I'm not sure of what the tools are but I purchased this product to do one thing, load a program via a thumb drive. I don't want to learn a OS and learn coding. I wanted to plug in the thumb drive and install the program on it*. Half the people I email say connect to the net and download (well I have DSL and apparently you can't connect to the net with that). This is not a new hobby for me, I don't need a new hobby. I have had lots of nice folks give me good advice but the basic problem is that the RPI2-MODB-8GB-NOOBS doesn't work as advertised. The non ability to just plug in a thumb drive is a no starter.
* I haven't even got to the point to know if the RB Pi will run the program or not. That could be a whole new hair pulling experience.
Please can you not hijack a thread it is totally confusing to help the Original Poster or youself :roll:
Retired disgracefully.....

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alexeames
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:42 pm

MisterData. Please try to be more civil. I do understand why you are cross with some of the answers you got, but your original post was not very descriptive.

You have made some potentially useful observations in your last post, but they are so buried in "rant" that they will probably go un-noticed.

I'm quite tempted just to delete this whole thread as it's a great example of "is this the right room for an argument?"

This forum can be a great place to get help if you go about it in the right way. :D

Everyone else. Please be nice to each other :)
Alex Eames RasPi.TV, RasP.iO

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:47 pm

For the record:
  1. About half of what MisterData says about the Linux GUI is correct - which boils down to "Yes, it just doesn't work as well - it's just not as polished - as either the Mac or Windows". Yes, I find it annoying, too, but the short summary is "Relax, you'll get used to it." BTW, both Mac & Windows are also, in their default configuration, single-click-to-select/double-click-to-activate. But I have noticed that on Linux, you usually have to really bang the double-click to get it to activate. There's probably some setting somewhere to fix this, but the short summary (again) is that you're better off clicking once to select it, then hitting Enter to activate it.
  2. OK, if you and Jonsmiller aren't the same person, no biggie. I was just trying to come up with an explanation for Jonsmiller's appearance on the thread. His issues did seem to be similar to your issues. Again, no biggie.

    3)
  3. First off, whose bright idea was to take all the menu stuff out? He should be banned from making future changes.
    This I totally agree with. 100%. It may not have been clear from the way I presented it - but I strongly agree that removing all the icons was a mistake. I think that in my little screed about it (the one about "teaming with life"), the use of the word "crapware" tended to throw people off as to what position I was taking and/or where I stood on it. I am not saying that the RPi/Linux desktop (as it existed on the B+) was "crapware". Quite the contrary - it was all good stuff - that someone decided to remove (and by "remove", yes, I mean, hide away under the menus instead of having as icons). The "crapware" comment was solely directed, in a humorous way, at the Windows laptops you buy at America's favorite store (Walmart).
P.S. (Totally changing the subject) Apparently, you can't embed a "quote" inside of a "list". Heh heh...
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

MisterData
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:52 pm

klricks wrote:Almost everything is still installed but not in the menu.
OR install a GUI PM.

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get insall synaptic
Just wanted to thank you for clearing that up for me. Petty they did that to the menus.

Jonsmiller
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:23 pm

"OK, if you and Jonsmiller aren't the same person, no biggie. I was just trying to come up with an explanation for Jonsmiller's appearance on the thread. His issues did seem to be similar to your issues"

Not the same person, similar issues is why I posted and didn't want to hijack the thread. I simply wanted to load a program from a flash drive to my new Raspberry. I have found that impossible to do. Many very nice people have tried to help but apparently (without a net connection) it's impossible to do.

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clive
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:29 pm

Hi all. Jonsmiller and MisterData are two quite distinct people. They would like our help. If you can help then then please do; if not then please help other people elsewhere.

I would now like to watch an episode (or three) of The Walking Dead before bedtime. Please be nice to each other :)

cheers
clive

Jonsmiller
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:42 pm

Thank you. Fooling around I have lost the GUI (startx) and have no idea on how to get it back. It goes to a command line, then times out, and then does crazy stuff like many screens with 3-4 line spaces between lines of code.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Sun Jun 21, 2015 10:55 pm

I am still confused which Posters Posts I should read, similarities maybe, the same issue doubtful.

They should be split or deleted IMO ;)

Anyway I am off to bed so will leave quietly and let someone else make what they can of this messy thread :D
Retired disgracefully.....

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clive
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:18 am

fruitoftheloom wrote:I am still confused which Posters Posts I should read, similarities maybe, the same issue doubtful....
Suggest reading Jonsmiller's.

SimonSmall
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:15 am

Jonsmiller wrote:I'm not sure of what the tools are but I purchased this product to do one thing, load a program via a thumb drive...<snip>. The non ability to just plug in a thumb drive is a no starter.
Just leaving aside the fact that NOOBS has not installed the right stuff to auto-mount your thumb drive...

Do you want to:
1) have instructions for manually mounting the thumb drive this time,
2) have instructions for manually loading the software for it to automount next time,
3) both?

Sorry for getting you to do this, as it should not have been necessary (I assume that you do have access to the internet to download files to your SD Card)

Jonsmiller
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:33 pm

Here is the problem, I use DSL. Apparently the only thing the RPi will connect to is HS type internet. I did try! The notes or something should define the type of internet connections this board will work with. Other users should tell folks what type of connection is required rather than just connect. There are a lot of assumptions made for new users.
I need both but trying various idea from the Forum and other well meaning folks I now don't even have a GUI, just a command line.
I have a friend who really understands this stuff so he is going to send me a chip with everything loaded including the program I want to run. The program had another catch to it which would have stumped me in that it needed different "rxtx" to work correctly.
Thanks for all the effort. Also I leaving for my other house in a few hours and it has a Hughs net connection so will try this chip with that and see if it will download anything.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:41 pm

You keep saying it won't work with DSL, which is clearly untrue. I think that's why people are having a hard time sync'ing up with the real question, which is, as always, what is this thread really about?

When I had DSL, it came with a router, the router "converted" the signal to a normal set of IPs in the usual 192.168.x.y range and everything "just worked". There's no reason that that wouldn't work with the Pi just like any other normal ISP.

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing that there is some weird vendor-imposed "login screen" or something like that that you have to deal with, and you haven't figured out yet (indeed, it may not even be possible; it may be irrevocably Windows-specific) how to do that on Linux/Pi.

So, if I'm right, you need to tell us what sorts of problems you are having getting it to work with your version of DSL.
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

Jonsmiller
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:02 pm

Re: Missing most of tools in NOOBS installed on Pi2?

Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:21 pm

Again the assumptions, you assume I have a router. I have a modem that plugs into my desktop, that's it. Phone line-modem-desktop! Plain, pure, and simple. When the RPi is plugged into the modem, nothing happens. It seems folks just assume I'm a computer nerd and have all this equipment everyone "else?" has.
Then the discussion goes well you are supposed to have this stuff! As to the discussion I think the ability to plug into a modem is a tool, the ability to mount the flash drive is a tool, and we could go on.

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