NGNAmiga
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Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:22 am

I came across a post on amiga.org today about the amiga roms & emulation on the Pi.
www.facebook.com/ptyschtschenko this link is to the commodore director who helped keep the amiga alive under Amiga International. He may have information on the current holder of the patents for amiga roms & technolgies

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liz
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:25 pm

Can you point us at the original post? Eben and I have been looking into the Amiga ROMs issue; we really want to see them on the Raspberry Pi, but the various company acquisitions which have split and reassigned copyright have made it nigh on impossible to find out who the copyright holders are, and we've had absolutely no response to some of the messages we've sent some of the people we believe *are* the copyright holders.
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liz
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:44 pm

Ah - thanks. He actually mentioned to me on the phone this afternoon before I saw your post that he'd left those messages.

It's an absolute minefield, isn't it? As far as we can make out, Cloanto are only a licensee, but they appear to be trying to enforce copyright against people as if they're an owner. And Hyperion's record of enforcement in this area is hardly encouraging. We'll keep plugging away, and we look forward to talking to the Aros guys about alternatives!
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NGNAmiga
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:38 am

Here is a list of patents in csv i have been looking at transfered from Commodore to Escom then to Amiga Development LLC would changed name to AD Technologies. Some of these patents have been asigned to Gateway Inc but have not been able to check. Gateway is now a part of Acer.

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guidol
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Wed Jul 18, 2012 3:52 pm

liz wrote: As far as we can make out, Cloanto are only a licensee, but they appear to be trying to enforce copyright against people as if they're an owner.
If you did buy a "Amiga Forever Plus Edition" at http://www.amigaforever.com/plus/
then you got the ROMs and the Worbench.
What do you need more?

NGNAmiga
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:41 am

I contacted Petro T. Tyschtschenko the other day about the Amiga IP and he has just come back with the following

"My understanding is that Gateway is the owner.

best regards Petro T. Tyschtschenko"

NGNAmiga
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:58 am

Gateway Inc are now a sub company of Acer. The patent manager of Acer is Sean CC Huang but i donot have his contact details. You can contact him though Linkedin if you have corporate access.

NGNAmiga
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:23 am

I have Amiga forever by Cloanta. I was a bit concerned about the legal aspect. For example Traps N Treasures is a Pirate crack by The Mongols Of Prestige. Makes you wonder about the licencing of the roms and workbench disks.

Ideobatus
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:18 am

NGNAmiga, I do not know what your problem is with Cloanto, but I would like to correct some of what you posted.

It is well known that Cloanto was one of the first to raise the issue of cracks and preservation. You can see this, for example, in the video at amigaforever.com (or maybe it is c64forever.com, it's one of the two). They went all the way up to the Copyright Office with this matter. What an irony that you try to use this topic to try shed a negative light on them, when what they worked to bring awareness to it themselves!

I also have several versions of Amiga Forever. The documentation lists all licenses, including the one you mention. The help further explains:
Some games contain "crack intros". This does not mean that the game was not duly licensed for inclusion in this package. "Cracks" were originally meant to defy copy protection mechanisms, but ultimately proved to also be a good way to preserve and make accessible content for emulation purposes.

Did you know that over time short crack intros evolved into full-featured demoscene productions, becoming a recognized form of art?
Your amiga.org profile shows that you are new to the Amiga community, and you are very welcome. But perhaps you could do your homework before making negative posts about companies that have been Amiga developers and supporters for 25 years?


P.S. about your previous posts:

- The patents expired many years ago, so why mention them?

- Mr Tyschtschenko worked for Commodore, ESCOM and in the Gateway days, then he retired. So why do you ask him about what happened afterwards? How is he supposed to know?

Ideobatus
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:54 am

liz wrote:It's an absolute minefield, isn't it? As far as we can make out, Cloanto are only a licensee, but they appear to be trying to enforce copyright against people as if they're an owner.
This "enforce against people" doesn't sound so nice, does it? :) It's like "(big) company against (innocent/poor) people". Why did you write it this way, it's almost hostile? They are a small company, possibly smaller than the Raspberry Pi Foundation!

Do you recognize this:
We reserve all of our rights, including the right to take steps to stop any use...
It comes straight from raspberrypi.org. ;)

Is that about copyrights? No, it's about trademarks. Could it be about copyrights? Yes. Would it only apply if you owned the copyrights (opposed to having them licensed)? No. Does one exclude the other? No again (you can "take steps" without needing to own a copyright, yet you could also own a copyright - the two are independent!)

So, I am not sure what data, laws or actions you based your statements on, or who you contacted before making that post. If you want it to appear like a minefield, I guess it will look like a minefield, but that's how you painted it. Why did you write "as if they're an owner"? Do they own or don't they own some copyrights, and how do you know they do or they don't? ("Amiga Documents" appears to indicate they do.) Did they take any actions, and if so, based on what? What evidence do you have? I would be curious to learn more about it. :)

destruk
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:00 am

Amiga 'roms' ? You mean the bios chip and workbench floppies? You shouldn't need more than the bios chip as far as 'roms' go - and those are all copyrighted.

NGNAmiga
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:35 am

I do not have a problem with Cloanta, i have used Personal Paint & Amiga forever for years. I use the software for personal use. I donot use any cracked games by personal choice. Yes the games may be licensed from the developer, but the file is still a cracked disk not the original. Why supply cracked disks. If any game's original copy protection stops the use of the disk, do not provide that game.
If Cloanta where to license the software to the Raspberry Pi Foundation, yes that would be good for the Amiga emulation community with the Pi's exposure, but what if the cracked software brings patent problems to the foundation.

Ideobatus
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Tue Jul 24, 2012 3:48 am

NGNAmiga wrote:Why supply cracked disks. If any game's original copy protection stops the use of the disk, do not provide that game.
But that decision is up to the game publisher, isn't it? If, after 25 years, they are unable to remove the copy protection, and a cracker did this (illegally, at the time, but helpfully in hindsight), why not use that?

You seem to be confused about patents, etc. There are no patents involved in this process. And by the definition of what cracks were meant to be, they do not fall under the works that are protected by copyright.
NGNAmiga wrote:If Cloanta where to license
It's "Cloanto", not "Cloanta". ;)

NGNAmiga
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:44 am

Has anybody been able to find out if the final US Patent Office maintenance payments at 11.5 years have been paid on the Amiga patents. If not the patents will have expired prematurely and be in the public domain.

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PIstolero
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:56 am

Its a copyright issue and not a patent issue with the Amiga ROMs and OS, the copyright will not expire in near future. You know the difference?
For an Amiga owner this is not an issue, use UAE as emulator for the old games or workbench and just dump the ROM file from an Amiga with transROM to make the emulator work (on the Pi maybe).

gebes
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:33 pm

I don't know what the possibilities and legalities are, but rather than emulate the Amiga on the Pi , I'd like to see the actual code for games from the Amiga/ C64 etc, made available in the public domain.

Imagine being able to update the code for such games as Moonstone , the Last Ninja series etc. So that it runs from Flash card, rather than multiple disc swaps ( those were and still are the days )

The whole thing with Commodore is messed up, so tackle it from a different angle, try and get the code for games/ applications released instead, and let people learn to program on the Pi by seeing how older games for the 8 and 16bit computers were coded.

The source code for the BBC Micro version of Elite is available online, so it's obviously possible.

OlafSch
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:32 am

Hello,

perhaps I have a idea regarding Amiga-support.

I have created a distribution that is based on Aros 68k and includes reimplemented roms. For additional support (games) you can use the preinstalled WHDLoad after copying the original roms (f.e. from amigaforever)

The links:
http://www.natami-news.de/html/support.html

And direct:
http://www.natami-news.de/html/aros_vision.html
http://www.natami-news.de/html/distribu ... nload.html

it works on most versions of UAE (roms from "boot" dir must be used)

Respectech
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:29 am

The current holder of the Amiga patents is Bill McEwen, owner of Amiga Incorporated. His email address is bill@amiga.com.

Respectech
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:46 am

Hyperion Entertainment is the current holder of the AmigaOS license (I'm not sure about the patents). Their web address is http://www.hyperion-entertainment.biz/ .

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Wizard
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:08 am

Sorry for OT but I can't stop giggling about the legal comments about ownership of Amiga/Commodore assets and patent/copyright malarkey... :p

This has been going on forever and will probably never cease due to its complex ownership situation...
We Amiga users/fans/"old guys" who was there from the beginning will probably never stop ranting about this and the fact that Amiga inc. and Commodore are DEAD isn't fully clear to some.

The ROMS are not PD (to my best guess) but as an owner I can extract BIOS from HW without breaking any Copyright rules, and I have quite recently read the Copyright texts from an Amiga 500 1.2 I had in a box, and use this as I see fit as long as its for myself.

I'm not a fan of the Cloanto release but this stems back to the various factions back in the days and I'm not 100% ok with someone trying to make money on something they legally doesn't own...
I've already bought enough HW to entitle me to use (and abuse :p) the Amiga platform until i die and for some weird reason I still buy stuff today? :/

As an ex "black hat" in the scene I have to admit that I bought most of the software, especially the expensive stuff, because without financial support the platform would die- which also happened in the end...

I'm still dreaming of a new modern HW platform that runs AmigaOS native with 68K instructions but that's not going to happen in any time soon... (or at all)
Raspberry PI is something that could fill this void I have and could be the reason why so many of us hanging here?

...did I just compare Raspberry PI to Amiga??? Perhaps ;)

Back on topic then...
I'd be very surprised if the various Commodore/Amiga patents were kept alive.
If so, someone would be a rich man today!

Today companies exists only to make money of old patents and I've recently seen old SGI patents in new hands raking in money due to code being accidentally ported to Open GLES2... (and we're talking BIG money!)
If these guys saw money in old Commodore/Amiga patents they would've bought them long time ago ;)

People working hard at home bringing Amiga OS to Raspberry PI without financial motives will receive my gratitude for sure and xamos tinkering the other day brought great memories back to me :)

Anyone up for building a 68K shield together for Raspberry PI? That would be a great project in my mind!

[EOT sentimental mumble...]
Raspberry Pi - finally a worthy replacement for A500!!!

Respectech
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:08 pm

@Wizard: I'm with you for the most part, but you may be as amazed as I am to find out that Amiga is still alive and kicking. Just as an FYI: I used to own one of the largest Amiga mail-order stores in the US, Amicom Technologies.

* Amiga Inc. is a real company owned by a real person I am personally acquainted with, Bill McEwen.

* There is new Amiga hardware: http://www.a-eon.com/?page=x1000 (and others).

* From Hyperion's website (check out the date): Hyperion Entertainment is proud to announce the release of AmigaOS 4.1 Update 5. The release went live on August 16, 2012.

* AmiWest 2012 (Amiga Conference in California) is scheduled for October 18-21, 2012 in Sacramento. Admission is free (costs are underwritten by sponsors) except for the software development conference which has a $40 fee. As of this writing, the conference website has received over 45,000 hits.

* Several new products are supporting the new Amiga operating system, AmigaOS 4.1.

* I have lunch with Carl Sassenrath, the designer of the original AmigaOS, every now and then.

* I am considering using an Amiga emulator on an RPi to deliver a price/performance breakthrough for a product that I develop (sorry, that's all I can say about it for now).

Will Amiga ever challenge the current PC market, or regain its former popularity? Sadly, I think not, although I would love to see it. Could it still offer some technological breakthroughs? Yes!

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Wizard
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:25 pm

@Respectech, of course Amiga isn't completely "dead", otherwise we wouldn't have this conversation :p
But the 68K platform that existed in pretty much "every home" and had the best HW architecture to date is sadly dead and that's what I was referring to...

Keep us posted on Raspi + Amiga project! Excellent!!!

Myself must investigate 680n0 shield for Raspi! Damn thing I'm stuck in bed unable to pester HW gurus at work in building prototype for me... :/
Raspberry Pi - finally a worthy replacement for A500!!!

mikerr
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Re: Amiga Roms for Raspberry Pi

Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:05 pm

Hehe, Amiga - it died before the community was ready to let it go :(

Fully paid up member here since '88 - even have some of my early programming efforts on aminet :)

...and I wrote this post on the ethernet connected A4000 just for kicks :geek:
Android app - Raspi Card Imager - download and image SD cards - No PC required !

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