plugwash
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 5:31 pm

plugwash said:


nmcc said:


How close are we to lxde


Pretty close, the lxde-core metapackage is already installable. The lxde metapackage is blocked up on lxterminal which has blocked up on some python stuff but i think i've got it cleared and hopefully we are now just waiting for the buildds to do their stuff.


lxde is now installable from the private repo so you should be able to install it next time we push things out to the public mirror.

veryevil said:


Plugwash: Have you received the PI i sent to you on Saturday?


Not yet

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nick.mccloud
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 5:36 pm

Here's an interesting hiccup ...

Pi299, mine, works just fine with the Hexxeh build.

Pi3728, my mate's, appears to suffer with a flakey USB interface and as a consequence won't see the ethernet on boot up when it tries to initialise the network and whinges constantly about a slow MS Mouse.

Pi3728 however, works just the same as Pi299 with the standard Debian image, network is just fine.

AFAIK the kernel is the same on both std and hard Debian - so where are the differences that may bring about this effect?

dom
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 7:04 pm

netsurf/xfce is running for me on real board. I haven't had any crashes, and it seems to run quite well.

Needs a side-by-side comparison, but I'm pretty sure raspbian will win that...

louisb
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 7:08 pm

My _guess_ is that the problem is caused by the higher current drawn when the hard floating point unit kicks in. (See the latest video from the scouts on the front page describing problems with the power supply).

If you can get both complete systems side by side then try swapping items one at a time (eg the power supply or the keyboard) to find out what is causing the problem.

cpldave
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 7:08 pm

My RPi boots Hexxeh's image fine. The only issue I've had so far is a couple of mmc0 warnings about writing to the SD card, but that is probably down to the Sony SD card I've got in there.

I was disappointed to see that Awesome window-manager failed to build because of an issue with one of the included themes. I'm going to try and get it to build and, if you are accepting submissions, offer a fix if I can get one going.

Love the project and love the progress so far.

Cheers,

Dave

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nick.mccloud
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 7:21 pm

louisb said:


My _guess_ is that the problem is caused by the higher current drawn when the hard floating point unit kicks in. (See the latest video from the scouts on the front page describing problems with the power supply).

If you can get both complete systems side by side then try swapping items one at a time (eg the power supply or the keyboard) to find out what is causing the problem.


They were on my desk so the exact same peripherals were being used - the PSU is an Apple iPad supply at 2.3A, mouse is a genuine Microsoft Basic Mouse. The issue still occurs if the mouse isn't plugged in. When I have more SD Cards (in transit to me) I can do some more scientific tests. For now I spend 20 minutes in each hour re-imaging a card whilst I dream up something else to try!

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 7:42 pm

cpldave said:

I was disappointed to see that Awesome window-manager failed to build because of an issue with one of the included themes. I'm going to try and get it to build and, if you are accepting submissions, offer a fix if I can get one going.
This would be terrific.  Plugwash or I haven't really had time to put together documentation on how to create the fixes or even put together a place where they can be submitted.  I'll try to get to this soon.

In general, I use 'debchange --nmu' and append '+rpi1' to the version of the package to indicate it's an RPi specific (NMU) non-maintainers update.  Plugwash has a lot more experience with this and may be able to offer better advice with regards to the best way of submitting a fix. I also found information in the Debian New Maintainers' Guide to be very useful when making fixes to packages:

http://www.debian.org/doc/manu.....ex.en.html

We're making this project up as we move along so please bear with us we hammer out some of the rough edges.  Things are starting to move a lot quicker now that the GUIs are building on Raspbian.

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 7:46 pm

nmcc said:


Here's an interesting hiccup ...

Pi299, mine, works just fine with the Hexxeh build.

Pi3728, my mate's, appears to suffer with a flakey USB interface and as a consequence won't see the ethernet on boot up when it tries to initialise the network and whinges constantly about a slow MS Mouse.

Pi3728 however, works just the same as Pi299 with the standard Debian image, network is just fine.

AFAIK the kernel is the same on both std and hard Debian - so where are the differences that may bring about this effect?


Welcome to the bleeding edge of Raspberry Pi development.

Hopefully the issue is not too hard to get to the bottom of.  I'll let the folks who have Raspberry Pi hardware try to help you diagnose what the issue might be as my thoughts would just be wild guesses at this point.

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mpthompson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 7:49 pm

plugwash said:

lxde is now installable from the private repo so you should be able to install it next time we push things out to the public mirror.
I just pushed the latest packages built overnight to the public repository so the latest should be available to everyone.

mihol
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 8:09 pm

@mpthompson, I'm following this thread since some time and wanted to thank you for this excellent work you started!

When I followed the links to reported bugs on http://elinux.org/Raspbian I've noticed that most of them have been closed by the maintainers today. Guess it's a challenge to keep up with maintaining the issue list and improving the build process at the same time. Maybe a helping hand would be good. I could offer about 30 mins a day to support the tracking.

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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 8:19 pm

nmcc said:


louisb said:


My _guess_ is that the problem is caused by the higher current drawn when the hard floating point unit kicks in. (See the latest video from the scouts on the front page describing problems with the power supply).

If you can get both complete systems side by side then try swapping items one at a time (eg the power supply or the keyboard) to find out what is causing the problem.


They were on my desk so the exact same peripherals were being used - the PSU is an Apple iPad supply at 2.3A, mouse is a genuine Microsoft Basic Mouse. The issue still occurs if the mouse isn't plugged in. When I have more SD Cards (in transit to me) I can do some more scientific tests. For now I spend 20 minutes in each hour re-imaging a card whilst I dream up something else to try!


It's a long shot, but try running rpi-update (http://hexxeh.net/?p=328117855) to get the latest firmware. It requires Git to run, not sure if that's available in Raspbian yet though. If not, just use the standard Debian image. Be sure to install git and ca-certificates packages before running it.

plugwash
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 8:19 pm

Since we are working from testing i'll wait until the fixed debian packages are in testing and then sync things up and remove them from the list.

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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 8:30 pm

Just a quick mention - I've been playing with the hexxeh image for a few days now - gradually watching the package list increase until this evening I can now run up X and xfce4 (no lxde yet!)

And actually xfce4 is quite usable...

I was interested in how much faster I could get my BASIC to run programs under it, given that a BASIC interpreter is doing a lot of "stuff" between floating point operations, it's not going to be the best of benchmarks, however as every numeric variable in it is a double precision floating point number, any little speed up there is going to help a lot.

So the "benchmark" was a Mandelbrot written in BASIC running in a 640x480 window under X.

Standard Pi (with the 3rd Debian release): 20.8 seconds.

Same, compiling to use hardfp, but the softfp ABI: 18.8 seconds.

The Raspbian release, hardfp and hardfp ABI: 16.4 seconds.

So that's a crappy BASIC program that's doing a lot of non-fp stuff between each fp operation. I imagine a floating point intensive application written in C or some other compiled language would fare a lot better.

Another little benchmark I have is another BASIC program that draws turtle graphics spirals then animates them - 12 frames/sec on the standard pi, 27 on the Raspbian image!

So hurrah for the guys doing this - I think it's a very worthwhile excercise and I might even make it my default image now.

Cheers,

Gordon

Ps. same on my desktop AMD A6-3500 takes 2.3 seconds and the spiral is in the 100's of fps... Not really a fair comparison though!
--
Gordons projects: https://projects.drogon.net/

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nick.mccloud
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 8:55 pm

Hexxeh said:


It's a long shot, but try running rpi-update (http://hexxeh.net/?p=328117855) to get the latest firmware. It requires Git to run, not sure if that's available in Raspbian yet though. If not, just use the standard Debian image. Be sure to install git and ca-certificates packages before running it.


Your firmware updater was on my todo list anyway but I shall move it up the list.

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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 10:35 pm

I'm working a Dreamhost support person to work through some issues with the repository hosting server.  It may be up and down a bit for the next few hours: 3:30 pm to 5:30 pm Pacific time — hopefully not longer than that.

Sorry about this, but I want to make sure things are working before a lot more people start using the server.

Reminder to self, I need to get some mirrors going…

I'll be looking to configure a read-only rsync so that those who offered to mirror the repository can start doing so fairly soon.

[Update: Finished --  I can now remotely restart the server again without worrying that it won't come back up.]

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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Wed May 09, 2012 11:25 pm

Up until three days ago the additional three iMX53 QSB boards I have on order with Mouser were slated to be shipping today -- May 9th.  Well, the ship date disappeared for a few days and now has just been updated to June 29th.  Very sad...

Could have used them, but I guess it's not to be.  I'll keep looking every few days to see if some reseller has stock.

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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 7:41 am

I''m in the process of configuring a Mele A1000 with Debian armhf and I hope to use it as a build/developemnt system for manual builds so I don''t have to take a build server down if I need to examine/fix a package.

http://liliputing.com/2012/03/.....ed-pc.html

Given the scarcity of the the Freescale iMX53 QSB systems, I''m considering whether it makes sense to purchase a couple of Mele's to add to the build cluster.  They only have 512MB of memory, but in all other respects they seem very comparable with the iMX53 QSB.  At about $90, I also can get them for 2/3's the cost of a the Freescale boards once shipping from China is factored in the price.  I''m still working on getting a stable kernel for the A1000 so I need to make sure that happens before I make any decision around this.

Also, there are at least a handful of packages we probably would only want built on the iMX53 systems with 1GB of memory.  Managing were specific packages build may be a little tricky.

If anyone else is looking for an ARM development system the Mele A1000/A2000 don't seem like bad systems.  It has HDMI, VGA, Composite Video, Optical & Analog Sound, SATA, lots of USB, etc… There are also a group of developers working with AllWinner to try and open up the GPU to open source development.

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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 8:00 am

Finally, before turning in for the night, the current package counts for Wednesday are:

Debian armhf 34355
Raspbian armhf 27547

Slowing down a bit as we hit some major packages that require 12+ hours to build, but I think everyone would agree that the more interesting packages are finally making their way into Raspbian.

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nick.mccloud
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 8:25 am

Hexxeh said:


It's a long shot, but try running rpi-update (http://hexxeh.net/?p=328117855) to get the latest firmware. It requires Git to run, not sure if that's available in Raspbian yet though. If not, just use the standard Debian image. Be sure to install git and ca-certificates packages before running it.


git is available but not readelf - will look in to the feasibilty of compiling it myself (not my forte!).

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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 11:20 am

nmcc said:


Hexxeh said:


It's a long shot, but try running rpi-update (http://hexxeh.net/?p=328117855) to get the latest firmware. It requires Git to run, not sure if that's available in Raspbian yet though. If not, just use the standard Debian image. Be sure to install git and ca-certificates packages before running it.


git is available but not readelf - will look in to the feasibilty of compiling it myself (not my forte!).


apt-get install elfutils

ljdawson
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 12:05 pm

@mpthompson Got my RPi yesterday and came across this thread. Just wanted to say thanks, the work you're doing is fantastic.

I'm a developer myself, would it be possible to build my own disk image with the most up to date code or am I best off waiting for your releases?

Would love to help out or even just donate (can't see a button on raspbian.org).

Thanks,

Laurence

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nick.mccloud
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 12:50 pm

Hexxeh said:


apt-get install elfutils


Yeah, tried that, after some poking about it appears to be called eu-readelf. One symbolic link later and:

Raspberry Pi firmware updater by Hexxeh
Performing self-update
Using memory split of 224MB/32MB
Updating firmware (this will take a few minutes)
Using SoftFP libraries
cp: cannot create regular file `/opt/vc/sbin/vcfiled': Text file busy

plugwash
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 1:00 pm

readelf should be in package binutils, do you have that installed?

louisb
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 1:10 pm

@mpthompson Got my RPi yesterday and came across this thread. Just wanted to say thanks, the work you"re doing is fantastic.

I"m a developer myself, would it be possible to build my own disk image with the most up to date code or am I best off waiting for your releases?

Would love to help out or even just donate (can"t see a button on raspbian.org).

Thanks,

Laurence

See: http://www.raspbian.org/RaspbianFAQ

plugwash
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Re: Debian Hard Float (armhf) for RPi

Thu May 10, 2012 1:40 pm

nmcc said:


Hexxeh said:


apt-get install elfutils


Yeah, tried that, after some poking about it appears to be called eu-readelf. One symbolic link later and:

Raspberry Pi firmware updater by Hexxeh
Performing self-update
Using memory split of 224MB/32MB
Updating firmware (this will take a few minutes)
Using SoftFP libraries
cp: cannot create regular file `/opt/vc/sbin/vcfiled': Text file busy


eek, it should be using hardfloat libraries not softfp ones. Maybe the eu-readelf from elfutils has different behaviour from the readelf from binutils.

Can you confirm whether you have binutils installed? if so can you try reinstaling it?

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