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Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:36 pm
by LienRag
I would like to use Scratch 2.0 on Raspberry computers, is there a way to?
Like somebody said, there are versions of flash for Android, so flash can (more or less awkwardly) work on ARM.
I totally agree that the decision by the Scratch development team to ditch Smalltalk/Squeak for Adobe Flash when building Scratch 2.0 is a very bad one, but I wasn't the one to make it... nor do I have the skills to fork the code at such an early stage.
HTML5 is supposed to be implemented soon (of two years late...) but what in the meantime?

Gnash works on the Pi but apparently Scratch 2.0 doesn't work with it.

Scratch 1.4 is available on Raspbian but the main problem is that it doesn't have methods or procedures like Scratch 2.0.
I'll have to try BYOB on Pi (when I'll get my Pi back...) but it's a bit problematic to teach kids on a special-purpose software rather than on the generic Scratch they can find anywhere.

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:44 pm
by mahjongg
I don't think flash will ever work on the PI, even when flash works on Android tablets, ask sombody else why, I'm not familiar with the technical details. But take it from me that flash will not work on PI's, unless adobe changes its mind.

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:13 pm
by timrowledge
LienRag wrote:I would like to use Scratch 2.0 on Raspberry computers, is there a way to?
Like somebody said, there are versions of flash for Android, so flash can (more or less awkwardly) work on ARM.
No, there is currently no way.
LienRag wrote:I totally agree that the decision by the Scratch development team to ditch Smalltalk/Squeak for Adobe Flash when building Scratch 2.0 is a very bad one, but I wasn't the one to make it... nor do I have the skills to fork the code at such an early stage.
HTML5 is supposed to be implemented soon (of two years late...) but what in the meantime?
I'm not sure what you would fork; since there is no Flash for Pi forking whatever Flash program/file wouldn't do much good.

The Scratch provided on the standard Raspbian is now a very much faster, modernised code base that lives on top of the latest Squeak. It gets faster all the time as I work on it. It runs on any machine that runs a recent Squeak. All you have to do is copy the .image file to your machine and run it on any of the modern Squeak VMs - interpreter, stack or cog. Sometime soon it'll even run on Spur.
LienRag wrote:Scratch 1.4 is available on Raspbian but the main problem is that it doesn't have methods or procedures like Scratch 2.0.
So make a good case to Eben and the foundation education team and they'll consider whether to get me to extend the system. It's just programming.
LienRag wrote:I'll have to try BYOB on Pi (when I'll get my Pi back...) but it's a bit problematic to teach kids on a special-purpose software rather than on the generic Scratch they can find anywhere.
As mentioned above - Scratch 1.4 runs on any machine already, so they can run on a pi, a mac, a pc, whatever at home or at school. BYOB also runs ok on a PI, though it requires slightly more fiddly setup. A working-for-pi version is at https://copy.com/TUOG8xOMUmzeWFpk

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:02 pm
by BMS Doug
mahjongg wrote:I don't think flash will ever work on the PI, even when flash works on Android tablets, ask sombody else why, I'm not familiar with the technical details. But take it from me that flash will not work on PI's, unless adobe changes its mind.
KTB says he has it working
ktb wrote: BTW, I do have Flash working on Arch Linux in Chromium.

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:05 pm
by ktb
There might be other ways, but I've found one way that Flash works on the Pi2B.

You'll need:
- Raspberry Pi 2 Model B
- Arch Linux http://archlinuxarm.org/os/ArchLinuxARM ... est.tar.gz
- Some desktop environment (I'm using xfce4)

Install these using pacman:
- armv7 extra chromium 40.0.2214.111-1 The open-source project behind Google Chrome, an attempt at creating a...
- armv7 alarm chromium-pepper-flash 12.0.0.77-1 Google Chrome's Pepper Flash plugin for Chromium on armv7h

I'm watching trailers on Amazon Instant Video right now.

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:13 am
by LienRag
Apparently, the fork I was talking about exists, it's Phratch (the features of Scratch 2.0 ported in Pharo, an open-source Smalltalk).
Alas, according to the Phratch main developer, it's absolutely not optimized for the Pi and runs very slowly on standard Pi - he says he hasn't tested it on Pi 2 yet, and I haven't either since I don't know when I'll get the Pi 2 I ordered and nobody here has any.

I already asked the question on the HOWTO for flash with chromium, but if Flash works, is there a way to have Adobe AIR working?
It's needed to use an offline version of Scratch 2.0.

Oh, and I wouldn't know how to make a good case to Eben (I don't even know who he is) but it certainly would be useful to have a true open-source Scratch usable offline and working on the Pi with full features (BYOB, and Scratch for Arduino too - the version for Scratch 2.0 is quite better than the one for Scratch 1.4), be it Phratch or another brand.

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:34 am
by timrowledge
I hardly know where to start...
Phratch is an interesting fork of the very same Scratch code that is on the Pi already. Except they haven't taken the route of heavily rewriting the core to make it faster, as we have for Pi. So they have some interesting extra features but lack performance.
Pharo is a development of Squeak, the open source Smalltak that Scratch was originally built in. squeak is still going strong and being aggressively developed including for Pi.
The current Scratch provided in Raspbian is massively faster than it was two years ago, works perfectly well offline, supports everything the same as it originally did and is actively developed.
It isn't Flash. It never will be.

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:41 pm
by LienRag
Thanks for your answers, but you're actually confusing me...

We are both talking about the same Scratch, which has two versions, 1.4 based on Smalltalk/Squeak, and 2.0 based on Flash, are we?

I never taught on a Pi but with PCs I taught on Scratch 1.4 (before there was an offline Scratch 2.0) and on Scratch 2.0 offline.
Scratch 2.0 brings two mains concepts (I don't use the "backpack" as it doesn't work offline), the clones and the custom blocks (the laters do not exist in Scratch 1.4 but are the main feature of BYOB); the clones being an introduction to the notion of multiples instances of a class, and the custom blocks to the notion of functions and procedures.

From what I understand, Phratch is a port of Scratch 2.0, so has clones and custom blocks, while the Scratch on Pi is Scratch 1.4, which hasn't neither clones nor custom blocks.

Is that so, or I am missing something?
Because if the Scratch for Pi that you're talking about as having an optimized code and being much faster has actually customs blocks and clones (and, ideally, an option to use it to command Arduinos), then my problem is solved.
And if Phratch doesn't have them, then Phratch i's useless to me.

Re: adobe flash player with raspberry

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:38 pm
by texy
I think you are going way off topic there - I suggest you ask your question in the Scratch forum.
There is no flash on RPi.
Closing.