Blars
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:10 pm

Debian no longer supports arm, only armel. armeb was never released. armhf is a work in progress, but requires v7 so will not run on R-pi. (All are various configurations of the arm family of processors, but programs compiled on one will not run on another without recompiling.)

rickyjames
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:02 pm

Very interesting, I have learned somethng, thank you. So just to clarify what I think the bottom line is here, both Debian "arm" and "armel" packages should run on Rpi, but if you've got a choice, go with armel, and "armhf" packages won't work on Rpi at all. Correct?

In a previous post I gave a link to the Arora arm files, which are in Debian release Lenny. I will go update that post to reflect the later Arora armel files, which I see now are in the later Debian release Sid.

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:09 pm

I think armel is now the only choice for Raspi, arm has been dropped by Debian.

But thanks for the last few posts - I didn't know that stuff. :)
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:15 pm

So jamesh, did you test the Arora arm or armel package? My link above was (unwittingly) originally to the arm package, which is Arora version (0.2-1). The armel Arora version is 0.10.2-2 - presumably much better.

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:03 pm

I spent longer than I should have done today fiddling around trying to get the latest chromium tarball to cross-compile. With bugs like http://code.google.com/p/chrom.....l?id=93661 around, it looks like they're not doing many ARM builds (certainly I can't see anything ARM architecture on the buildbot). If anyone knows of a recent armel build, I'll try it out on my alpha board. There is chromium 6 build for armel in squeeze which I did try out, and it does appear to be noticeably snappier than firefox/iceweasel.

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:18 pm

Quote from rickyjames on September 18, 2011, 14:15
So jamesh, did you test the Arora arm or armel package? My link above was (unwittingly) originally to the arm package, which is Arora version (0.2-1). The armel Arora version is 0.10.2-2 - presumably much better.


The one selected by apt-get which is armel.

I've been meaning to try Chromium - looks like someone beat me to it! Knew there was something I forgot to do this weekend.
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:38 pm

So the story so far on this thread is that the Midori, Arora and Chromium6 internet browsers have all successfully run on the Alpha board and seem to all run better than Debian IceWeasel / Mozilla Firefox, which has a reputation for being a memory hog. There are armel packages for all four, plus one for gnash which is a substitute for Flash that needs to be run in conjunction with Midori, plus one for the entirely seperate Pidgin which is not an internet browser but instead a universal IM/chat client (that hasn't yet been run on an Alpha board but "should" work).

http://packages.debian.org/squ...../iceweasel
http://packages.debian.org/squ.....um-browser
http://packages.debian.org/squeeze/arora
http://packages.debian.org/sid/midori
http://packages.debian.org/sid/gnash
http://packages.debian.org/squ.....eze/pidgin

So....next question. Anybody planning to do a structured bake-off of all four browsers side-by-side to record objective comparisons on items such as memory use (key consideration for Rpi) and subjective winner(s) for definite inclusion on the November launch OS release in six to eight weeks?

(As an aside, further research says that Opera isn't supported by Debian, Amaya is effectively dead, Lynx is an obsolete "text only" browser from the dawn of the internet, Ephipany runs under GNOME, Konqueror runs under KDE, and Galeon is considerd a browser for "advanced users". So we've pretty comprehensively wrung out that the four browsers listed above constitute the pool of significant candidates for Rpi....

...unless you want to throw Netsurf into the fray as well. It's got an armel package and specifically is aimed at providing HTML5 / CSS support...or maybe Dillo, which is specifically aimed at small memory / embedded systems...)

http://packages.debian.org/whe.....etsurf-gtk

http://packages.debian.org/sid/dillo

obarthelemy
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:13 pm

That would be great, but a different browser is only an apt-get away. If time is a constraint, I'd much rather the team did the Flash Memory optimization dance, which is a lot more involved ?

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:22 pm

I have no interest in running flash, but can someone do a little test of HTML5 audio or video on the Raspi? I would be interested to know how well it works, if at all.

Thanks,
Barnaby

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:59 am

Quote from barnaby on September 18, 2011, 21:22
I have no interest in running flash, but can someone do a little test of HTML5 audio or video on the Raspi? I would be interested to know how well it works, if at all.

Thanks,
Barnaby

How would that be tested? I know nothing about HTML 5.
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:28 am

http://www.youtube.com/html5 ? Needs a WebM codec though.

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:47 pm

Been doing some research to understand ARM and came across this PDF that discusses the Debian transition from arm to armel....

http://wookware.org/talks/arme.....ebconf.pdf

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:20 pm

Quote from jamesh on September 19, 2011, 09:59
How would that be tested? I know nothing about HTML 5.

Hi,

Try some of the demos at http://html5demos.com/ , and (if you're running chrome or another webkit browser with webgl) http://www.chromeexperiments.com/

Cheers,
Barnaby

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:31 pm

Has anyone tried to play oldschool youtube videos on the alpha hardware? I know chromium or iceweasel + gnash should work fine, but then again, it's worth testing.

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:34 pm

Quote from rickyjames on September 18, 2011, 19:38

(As an aside, further research says that... Lynx is an obsolete "text only" browser from the dawn of the internet...)

If you've never tried out Lynx before, it's actually a lot of fun ;)

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:46 am

said:

If you"re running chrome or another webkit browser with WebGL) http://www.chromeexperiments.com/


I"m working on the Pi-finity! game and would like to use WebGL to show development team members, the Foundation, and other innocent bystanders what we"re doing before the game engine is up and running well enough for an unlimited number of viewers/players.

For someone who has an R-Pi board, can you visit the http://www.ChromeExperiments.com link above using a WebGL-capable browser (e.g.,Webkit-based, such as Chrome) and tell us whether the demos work and, if some don"t, which ones do? I would also like to know whether the demos at http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes.....earth.html work in a WebGL browser (this will give you an idea of the realism and 3-D model quality I"m going for in the game). Please let me know what OS/browser versions you were running, and if you can try all combinations you have, that would be even more greatly appreciated.

This brings up the topic of whether folks receiving boards earlier can provide SSH/VNC/etc., access to those of us developers who will be waiting to receive our boards to do lightweight testing of the above kind of thing on a not-to-interfere basis (e.g., late at night your time). We would forever be in your debt, or at least until one of these lottery numbers pays off

Thanks!
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:13 am

Jim Manley said:


For someone who has an R-Pi board, can you visit the http://www.ChromeExperiments.com link above using a WebGL-capable browser (e.g.,Webkit-based, such as Chrome) and tell us whether the demos work and, if some don"t, which ones do?


They likely won't.

Even though WebGL is based on OpenGL ES my understanding is that the OpenGL ES implementation on the Pi at the moment works full screen only and you can't attach it to an X window (which may not be a bad thing because the performance of that might suck). My guess is under X on the Pi all these browsers would be trying to talk to glx which would only offer software rendering via Mesa if anyone bothers to load glx at all. I would expect the browsers to notice that this doesn't meet their minimum requirements and not to offer WebGL. If you can work around that with some config setting it would be unusably slow.

Its one of those things like html video that you think is just going to work (lost count of the people on the forums saying Youtube html5 will be fine) but often things are a bit more complicated in practice.

A browser compiled to run direct on OpenGL ES is probably the most likely way to get webgl running. When hardware turns up it is possibly the sort of thing that can be done with QtWebKit.

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Apr 12, 2012 1:38 pm

I'm hoping for the Iron Portable browser, myself- it's of the Chrome family, minus all the Google spyware.
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:39 pm

shirro said:


They likely won"t.

...
A browser compiled to run direct on OpenGL ES is probably the most likely way to get webgl running. When hardware turns up it is possibly the sort of thing that can be done with QtWebKit.


I had a sneaking suspicion that might be the case given that (Webkit-based) Safari on the iPad doesn"t support WebGL despite it having a stronger nephew of the GPU in the Pi, and the discussions over in the thread on the difficulties in GPU acceleration of X on the Pi. That"s unfortunate, but, it won"t affect the game in the long run, since we can take control of the system and implement it with OGLES directly. We can still use WebGL-capable browsers on our primary systems to look at 3-D visualization examples and demos, since we"ll probably be doing a lot of our development there, anyway, unless we want to join the Rumplestiltsken Beard-growing Contest Society waiting to build on Pi boards

I suppose I can look at building something like Chrome/Iron with WebGL just for "fun" if no one else is so motivated, since I have no idea how long it will be until my board shows up to occupy what few spare late-night cycles I have available (although I"ll eventually need the board to complete testing/debugging). WebGL on Chrome runs fine on some fairly anemic hardware under Windoze 7, although not quite as anemic as the hardware on the Pi, especially in the RAM department. Windoze does suck the life out of everything it touches, though, leaving not much more RAM than the Pi has, ironically ):
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:39 pm

I suppose I can look at building something like Chrome/Iron with WebGL just for "fun" if no one else is so motivated....
Some of us anxiously await it!

Seriously, I'm looking into compiling chromium from scratch on my pi because of chromium's abysmal performance when OGL is not available.

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:20 pm

Does anyone know why or when youtube stopped working with the epiphany browser ?.. I am using it on raspbian on a pi b+ 2.
the youtube site will not let me in and says I am using an unsupported browser.
thanks..

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:38 pm

dliloch wrote:Does anyone know why or when youtube stopped working with the epiphany browser ?.. I am using it on raspbian on a pi b+ 2.
the youtube site will not let me in and says I am using an unsupported browser.
thanks..
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:41 pm

dliloch wrote:Does anyone know why or when youtube stopped working with the epiphany browser ?.. I am using it on raspbian on a pi b+ 2.
the youtube site will not let me in and says I am using an unsupported browser.
thanks..
Try http://youtube.com/html5

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dliloch
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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:19 pm

thanks .. that link worked... I don't recall having to do this previously however. With the new link I did get the options rather than a screen that simply says unsupported. I also thought that youtube was defaulting now to html5 .. anyway it's fine now..

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Re: Raspberry Pi and internet browsing

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:28 pm

dliloch wrote: I also thought that youtube was defaulting now to html5 .. anyway it's fine now..
It does it automagically for browsers that present a recognisable UserAgentString where YouTube knows it has HTML5 support. Epiphany doesn't do that so you have to set a YouTube cookie by visiting the /html5 page.
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