lmnotran
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 2:49 pm

Would it be possible to have a version of the Raspberry Pi with atleast 1GB of RAM? I intend on using it for a Minecraft server that is up 24/7, as well as a server for my files.

Michael
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:19 pm

The RAM is limited by which size modules the R.Pi team can get their hands on in quantity and at a reasonable price. Right now, that means 128MiB and 256MiB. 512 will probably be offered in due course but the R.Pi is primarily intended for use as a teaching device so for high performance applications like the one you are proposing, you are probably better off looking at alternatives such as the dual core Intel Atom platforms that are starting to appear.

reggie
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:24 pm

What is the maximum amount of ram the SoC can handle? Can you give us ram specs (apologies if it's already on the wiki).

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:30 pm

That would make the worst Minecraft server.

Thorn
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:36 pm

http://mineserver.be/ Compiles on ARM as far as i'm aware and can handle 50 players in < 200MB memory (not many chunks loaded though)

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Lob0426
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:40 pm

From what I see available on the market it appears that 1GB is the "market" limit currently. That does not mean there are not bigger PoP package memory out there, just what seems to be affordable for production right now. Being a 32 bit processor the limit would be 4GB if there is no other constraints than it's ability to address RAM.
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reggie
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:45 pm

I'm asking because there will be people out there with the facility to use hot air to remove the existing ram chips and replace them with bigger chips but that of course depends on exactly what the SoC can handle.

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RobinJ
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:15 pm

The Raspberry Pi is meant mainly for people who want to learn how to program (and do it properly). And as long a you choose a decent programming language to work with, 128 or 256 MB RAM is more than enough.
You ungreatful people always want more and more for the smallest possible pricetag. If you want a super computer, go to a computer shop. But don't expect a 20 euro computer to fullfill all your wildest dreams.
If you want to run a MineCrap server that badly, buy yourself a new computer with "enough RAM".
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Chris
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:58 pm

Quote from RobinJ on August 29, 2011, 17:15
The Raspberry Pi is meant mainly for people who want to learn how to program (and do it properly). And as long a you choose a decent programming language to work with, 128 or 256 MB RAM is more than enough.
You ungreatful people always want more and more for the smallest possible pricetag. If you want a super computer, go to a computer shop. But don't expect a 20 euro computer to fullfill all your wildest dreams.
If you want to run a MineCrap server that badly, buy yourself a new computer with "enough RAM".

Second...

But for the aspect of RAM, I will through this in to the pot. Its main purpose is education, Indeed. But the Community itself is wanting to push the R-Pi beyond Education and into Unique Form Factors which could potentially revolutionise computing. For these idea's and projects, more RAM and CPU would technically be better.

For my personal view though, I think Model B is perfect for a starting point. Depending on how well it goes, Maybe the Creators of R-Pi could considor a R-Pi 2 meant for the more power needy and have a higher Price, but I also think if they do this, then it should not be so much of a charity affair. It should make profit then as its fucilling a retail aspect.

Johannes
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:58 pm

RAM is a limiting factor. If you've watched the video where Eben Upton talks at Bletchley Park, you must have noticed that the OS needs to be trimmed some more to fit into the Model A with just 128MB, so that there's still room for applications. Some people see this as an incentive for programmers to write less wasteful programs. I think that a platform that needs a hand-trimmed OS and is always on the verge of swapping over USB is unattractive. 128MB is plenty for a small headless server, but a Raspi, with gorgeous 1080p HDMI output, can't keel over when you open a web browser in addition to an IDE. This thing needs to be sufficiently capable that it won't constantly remind its users that it's not a "real" computer. It's supposed to be an educational tool, not a toy.

Unlike network interfaces, storage, audio, GPS, sensors, buttons and other periphery, which can all be added via USB or GPIO, the amount of RAM is fixed. I foresee a complete lack of demand for the 128MB model for that single reason. Even people who have no use for the Ethernet port and need either fewer or more than two USB ports will get Model B - just for the 256MB; and they'd pay more to get even more RAM.

I understand that a package with more than 256MB RAM is not within reach, and that's not a problem. I have a couple of 128MB ARM devices and they're doing what I expect them to do. That however does not mean that more RAM could not be put to good use.

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Lob0426
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:17 pm

More RAM would be nice and we will probably see it down the road. As to trimming an OS, well I remember trimming down Win 3.11 because it nearly filled the HDD's that were available to me. There was 24MB of modem installation files in it(125MB drive). I needed to have room for Doom. Then in Win95 we trimmed it to bring up it's performance. So trimming an OS down is nothing new. I constantly trim services that I don't need in Vista Ultimate(6GBDDR3, i7-920). I uninstall old drivers clean up the registry and etc. This has always been the way to keep performance up. Every OS has bloat that can be excised, with care, to gain somewhere else. Reducing the items resident in memory is a time honored tradition for us old timers.
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RobinJ
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Re: More RAM

Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:56 pm

More RAM is not needed. Enough said.
If they ever decide to bring this as a normal home use platform, maybe they'll put more RAM in it. But for what it's meant for at the moment, the current amount of RAM is enough.
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kiaas
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:22 am

Debian'll probably handle better on 256MB of RAM compared to say, ubuntu, it does pretty good on 256 on my 400mhz UltraSPARC IIi, afterall. (Note, I have an Efika MX, with 512MB of RAM and a 800mhz Cortex-A8, running ubuntu 10.10, and it's so much slower than that SPARC machine)
I'd love it with 512MB of RAM, but I'm buying a model B regardless. if a 512 model comes out sometime in the future for under 50, I'll buy that too.

Jasont41
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:57 am

http://mineserver.be/

I'm a moron. I know. How do i download this?

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lobster
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:02 am

You don't have to trim Puppy Linux to run in ram. It was designed that way. In fact it was designed to run from SD. Now the hardware has caught up with the design.
Not being trimmed means Puppy also has a full kennel load of software, browser, window manager, chat, WP, paint, structured drawing, spreadsheet, media player, bit torrent etc all included.
You really can have your Pi and eat it.
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Fr.....dQuestions

kiaas
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:13 am

Puppy doesn't target, or intend to target ARM, AFAIK, thus it'd be extra effort to port it.

Skygod
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:51 am

Quote from kiaas on November 28, 2011, 05:13
Puppy doesn't target, or intend to target ARM, AFAIK, thus it'd be extra effort to port it.

I think you are mistaken.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/v.....hp?t=72407

gordan
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:54 pm

I have to say that I agree with the sentiment here about needing more RAM. Yes, it is supposed to be a teaching device, but if you expect things like Eclipse (mentioned on the wiki) to run in 256MB of RAM, along with the basic system, Xorg and a compiler in the background when you need to build your code, you are going to be in for a very nasty disappointment.

Yes, teaching people to program is a good thing, and teaching them to do so within reasonable memory constraints is something to be much encouraged in these times of shameless bloatware. But the problem is that to make things usable in 256MB of RAM, you will first need to teach all the OSS developers whose software you plan to use on this device to write programs that don't fall into the said shameless bloatware category (which broadly includes (but not limited to) anything written in java (e.g. Eclipse), yum, LibreOffice, Firefox (about 100MB of RAM just to display http://www.google.com), Thunderbird, Chrome (still disgraceful at roughly 1/2 the Firefox's memory footprint), etc.).

Even with zram and zcache, 256MB of RAM is arguably cutting a corner too many if your main use-case is running a full fat Linux distro.

willlim
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:37 pm

I think that 256M is enough, recently i was stuck in a machine whith 1GHz and 256M Of memory.
I use a debian whith wmaker and compile the kernel only whit suport from what the machine need.
The system was able to navigate, run avi, to see youtube video i use a plugin to firefox to download them because see on firefox was not feasible.
Considerating that the R-Pi is a full hardware integrade, the basic drivers can be compiled in the kernel and the aditional GPIO/USB hardware can be add in modules(this can need a higer knowlege at the start until doesnt exist a library with modules an drivers)
I think that the staff of r-pi is thinking in this way.

gordan
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:38 pm

Considering there is no readily available libflash.so for arm-linux, I wasn't even talking about that use case. But if your chose distro is going to be Fedora, you should really make sure that the features of that distro run on the hardware in question.
Once you take away the frame buffer size, and the memory required by:
Xorg: 26MB
nm-applet: 10MB
gnome-volume-control: 9MB
NetworkManager:4MB
XFCE: ~45MB
hald: 4MB
Plus, say, 10MB for other things like rsyslogd, dbus, pulseaudio, etc.
Total of about 108MB
Assuming your frame buffer is a bare minimum of 8MB (24-bit HD), that's 116MB. That leaves you 140MB of RAM for any applications you actually want to run. This is less than Thunderbird takes to load and let me see my IMAP folders.
Note: All of the above memory figures come from the armv5tel install of Fedora 13 on my AC100.

Eclipse hasn't worked on Fedora in ages so I cannot check what it's memory footprint is, but in light of the above figures, it seems pretty certain that R-Pi's capability as a platform for teaching programming, especially using IDEs mentioned on the wiki, is going to be borderline at best.

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abishur
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:50 pm

I agree that more ram would be a nice thing, but it's also a not gonna happen thing :P

The ram used by the r-pi is a package on package design (it sits "on top of" the SoC) as such 256 is the max available reasonably priced ram available. At the point where we could get more ram on the r-pi the price would be rapidly approaching the point where you might as well just buy a beagleboard or pandaboard. I know what we all really want is more ram at the same price, but that's infeasible. If more ram is must have for you, then you'll just have to bite the bullet and purchase one of the more expensive boards that are readily available (or the sheevaplug). Really no sense bemoaning something that can't change at this point in time ;)
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liz
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Re: More RAM

Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:57 pm

And with that, I'm closing this thread.
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