cjdelphi
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:45 am

Please Please consider some kind of unique serial number to be placed on the board either at manufacturing stage or post production.

because you'd have to bought all the components on a roll and supplied them with all the components before it was run through the machine(s) to build up the board, please please from now on, consider getting Serial Numbers introduced if for not other reason except to prevent clones..

eg rasberrypi.org/serialcheck

you feed in your serial number and outcomes the details of the board, where it was manufactured etc, it might not be such a good idea now, but if it becomes as succesful as you'd like it to be, it's a must or clones and i mean CLONES of this board will appear over night..

get them stamped, engraved, a sticker, anything to validate authenticity of the board,  hell even ship a a piece of paper with a number on it printed out from a $30 HP printer... something to prove ownership is an absolute must, i know this because all my torches (flashlights) are all serial engraved to prove it is what i bought i can track where in the world it was manufactured.

this way, you can ask for serial number for support, you can ask for it to prove authenticity, and only give the people who actually bought it support, i know it's a non profit blah blah blah, but this is not about profit but about protecting your intellectual property and producing boards on a mass scale, someone had to put up the capital someone had to take the risk, so please for both the people who buy your product(s) and you yourself, get some kind of serial number in place, 123456789 123 = where 456 = factory is built 789 = board number. obviously you can make it as complex or as simple as you want but serial numbers are the best way to regulate things in the long run

XAPBob
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:49 am

Hang on - they WANT people to clone this thing.

Helpme1986
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:58 am

cant see many clones coming out due to the cost of components, it just wouldnt be cost effective.

Fakes is something to worry about (claiming its a Pi but components are cheap knock offs) on the other hand but serial numbers wouldnt fix that issue really

cjdelphi
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:59 am

noooooo, you miss the point... entirely

what's going to happen if this becomes a success?.. a rival? of course but a rival has to begin somewhere, get the serial number in now and simply "condone" clones accept they exist, don't go after them, don't sue them... it's a matter of pride to own an "original" and to support the person who deserves it, not some unknown company in china making clones, they don't care if 10 or 10 million buy their clones as long as they profit..

The inventor (i wish i could correct the spelling in the title) here may not want huge amounts of money he wants to re-ignite something all of us who program computers have, i've watched him talk i've seen his views and he's not in it for the money and i completely respect that, and that is the problem, people who are out to rip him off via clones and otherwise just want the money, seriously i've not had this much admiration for anyone in a hell of a long time, i totally get what he's doing... I'm just concerned in 10 years time people wont bother with his product (even thought they should because there's next to no profit involved!) because people can buy a clone for 5 or 10 bucks cheaper... sorry but i hate this capitalist economy, it's just wrong.

so by introducing this, it means he can give support to the correct people (and to the people who bought clones) but with that extra serial number, he could offer more support or give discounts for other products he comes up with..

i'm purely talking about protecting not taking away or punishing others...

ghans
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:01 am

Exactly . They even want(ed) to publish the whole shematics.
And they are not providing support. This is supposed to be community driven. I do not know how they are going to do this in a educational enviroment , but you already said they are not a for-profit.

I wonder what the distributors are going to do with all that help requests.

Clones would be only sensible if you could be cheaper and make a profit . Competing here with the foundation must be hard - they do not pay design man-hours , have a special agreement with Broadcom etc.

The only problem i see is the misuse of the Trade mark - i.e. "RPi compatible" - even if its not etc. , blemishing the name of the foundation.

ghans
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cjdelphi
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:04 am

helpme, um? what?

cheap knock offs are identical to the real thing, we're not talking about using a cheaper capacitor, cheaper resistors? cheaper what?.... (chances are, it was cheap to begin with) the connectors are generic, the same GPU and CPU would be used, the same design and board layout (intellectual property) could be used just fine.

you need to think about this from a prototype point of view, fine they might use slightly cheaper components, but providing the CPU/GPU is the real deal the board being a clone or not is still going to provide you the same identical thing to what the inventor is offering here, and i'm sure he'll agree, and even the cheap knock offs could infact be better quality by spending more in mass quantity to bring the prices down and still offer the same product (but better) at the same price..

jacklang
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:06 am

They are serialised both on the board and in the chip

JoeDaStudd
Posts: 274
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:08 am

I can't see it being a major issue.

It's like most things, you either buy from a official (re)seller or run the risk of buying a fake.
Fakes and cheap have been around for thousands of years.

ghans
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:08 am

Note that the RPi foundation is not producing boards.
They are not produced on their orders .
Two profit-oriented companies are taking care of that - they only bought the license on Raspberry IP (shematics) and trademark.

We do not know the text of this agreement , but in some time they may publish the shematics and focus on providing educational meterial and design a new version.

ghans
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ghans
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:14 am

I suppose the clever thing they"re going to do is :

design , lincense (get rich) and then publish the shematics to make it even cheaper . With the right timing the Foundation could make loads of money to reinvest and still help the poorest of poor.

ghans
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cjdelphi
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:17 am

before you go any further, try watching this video..



it explains a LOT about how the whole manufacturing works, it's lengthy but it will show you how the inventor of the RPi went about, and ANYONE with money can do this... so generic components in mass will be acceptable to use same for any company, i highly recommend you watch this..

which is why I highly highly believe in a Serial Number just to protect the inventor nothing more and with a serial number comes pride knowing that you've just bought it you have something to prove ownership something you can't get if you buy a clone.

Helpme1986
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:18 am

cjdelphi said:


helpme, um? what?

cheap knock offs are identical to the real thing, we're not talking about using a cheaper capacitor, cheaper resistors? cheaper what?…. (chances are, it was cheap to begin with) the connectors are generic, the same GPU and CPU would be used, the same design and board layout (intellectual property) could be used just fine.



Sorry I meant using components that are less power full (and therefore cheaper) e.g. the mem being 128mb and CPU not a broadcom etc but using the Raspberry Pi name, if its called anything else then there isnt a problem as the foundation encourage cloning/similar products.

jamesh
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:24 am

The main problem people will have with making a 'clone' is getting the SoC at the quantities and prices required to compete. Basically, it's not possible.
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nick.mccloud
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:24 am

cjdelphi said:


which is why I highly highly believe in a Serial Number just to protect the inventor nothing more and with a serial number comes pride knowing that you've just bought it you have something to prove ownership something you can't get if you buy a clone.


1. The inventor, who's Eben Upton by the way, doesn't want protecting - read the about section on this website to find out why.

2. As stated above, the foundation would love someone to come along and build piles more Raspberry Pi's alongside them.

3. HOWEVER, that organisation would have to source the chips from Broadcom who are unlikely to cut the same sort of deal for what is comparatively low volume (at present) and an give them excellent price unless the enquiry came from another similar non-profit led outfit.

4. There is nothing to stop any other non-profit from creating something similar.

5. As soon as you need to pay sensible wages, the R&D costs would shoot it up to levels like, say, the BeagleBoard/Bone.

6. Dr Upton has likely already thought this one out - on account of him having a big brain and everything.

Helpme1986
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:29 am

nmcc said:


cjdelphi said:


which is why I highly highly believe in a Serial Number just to protect the inventor nothing more and with a serial number comes pride knowing that you've just bought it you have something to prove ownership something you can't get if you buy a clone.


1. The inventor, who's Eben Upton by the way, doesn't want protecting - read the about section on this website to find out why.

2. As stated above, the foundation would love someone to come along and build piles more Raspberry Pi's alongside them.

3. HOWEVER, that organisation would have to source the chips from Broadcom who are unlikely to cut the same sort of deal for what is comparatively low volume (at present) and an give them excellent price unless the enquiry came from another similar non-profit led outfit.

4. There is nothing to stop any other non-profit from creating something similar.

5. As soon as you need to pay sensible wages, the R&D costs would shoot it up to levels like, say, the BeagleBoard/Bone.

6. Dr Upton has likely already thought this one out - on account of him having a big brain and everything.


Love it, well summed up!

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gordon@drogon.net
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:32 am

As others have said, it's not an issue at all, and looking at some other litle systems - The Arduino has arguably benefited from being open and "clones" are made - I own several systems - "proper" Arduino boards, and Seedstudio alternatives. I don't think the hardware has done anything at all to diminish the whole "Arduino" concept.

So if the RPi concept is to get people thinking about programming again, then anything that adds to it is going to be a bonus, not a detraction.

Gordon
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ghans
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:35 am

I think the OP is not about cloning or whatever.
This is about buying a RPi and support the foundation directly .
In a provable way ( for reasons i don"t know) .
I support this . I"d like it to know that the RPi sold to me benefits the foundation directly. I"d like that , instead having a generic clone.

But I think even if everybody in this thread has made clear what the aims of the foundations are - they should have a look into this.

ghans
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maccboy
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:37 am


cjdelphi said:


. . .  on account of him having a big brain and everything.



Love that turn of phrase!! Couldn't resist highlighting it!

cjdelphi
Posts: 19
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:43 am

If you think clones (which i have no problem with) are the future then great, but if you think a clone can't be made cheaper (even by 5 bucks) then I honestly believe you're wrong because money talks it's just the world we live in..

All i know from a consumer point of view, my dollar is going towards the original concept and design and my dollar will hopefully be invested into future products, if no money is to be made because of all the clones how do i expect this organization to grow and produce even better products and boards in the future?... they can't if they've folded it's purely about ownership and pride really.. i'm not against cloning, I just believe in Credit where Crdit's due...

for example... would you rather pay $10 dollars for the real thing? or $8 for the same identical thing but you're left wondering why not spend the extra 2 bucks to support the right people.. i'm a programmer i've had programs of mine get cracked, big deal the ones who can't afford it will select the cheaper option, i get it, money is a necessity  but when others (the people who make the clones) begin to profit from other peoples hard work, then i have a moral objection.

Grumpy_Git
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:58 am

Urm, if you want to support the foundation buy from one of the two official suppliers who are international companies with good reputations who have contracts to honour.

If there are cheaper clones and you still want to benefit the foundation, then donate the difference to the foundation, simple.

you also need to remomber that there is effectively £0 profit in selling raspberry Pi's so there is very little possibility of selling them cheaper than they already are.

Nick.

bredman
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:58 am

I'm not really sure waht the problem is.

1. The serial number is burnt into the chip.

2. The serial number is printed on a sticker on the board.

3. The foundation encourages clones.

4. If somebody wants to support the charity, they know where to buy an original RPi.

5. The inventors are not in this for fame or fortune. Their focus is on the educational benefit.

colin B
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:21 am

I'm a little confused with this thread, I can't work out if a serial number exists or not, if it doesn't one useful purpose for one is tracking if a bad batch of components make it into production, boards and batches can then be matched if necessary.
On a clear disk one can seek forever

cjdelphi
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:29 am

i'm curious about this serial number as well.. can you visibly read it? if so then i'd love to see the ability of looking up the 'official' serial number just for peace of mind.

cjdelphi
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Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:32 am

and, is this serial number proof of authentication? eg is it just a 00000001 (board 1) type serial? unless it's structured to provide meaning, it can be faked simple as, the serial number of the CPU/GPU too not a big deal since it's part of the program..

eg, my network card's MAC address is unique (might be, but i doubt it) unless there's a database to validate these unique numbers, it's practically worthless with the exception of batch numbers and recall purposes.

adlambert

Re: To the inventor of the rasberry pi.

Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:37 am

It needs repeating I think.

Raspberry Pi clones = Raspberry Pi success.

Clones are good. We want clones. More clones = better.

This is not Apple and Samsung trading and fighting with patents and IP. This is community stimulating, here have this community, take it and run with it. Please.

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