jamesh
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:24 am

dan3008 wrote:To be honest, I just want to be able to attach a screen and run the whole lot off one battery lol. the DSI connector seemed to be the best option, but now i'm starting to question that one lol

I'd been thinking about a portable DVD drive hack, but i lack the skills, even with my one that has a composite video in. and i don't want to hack it up, and then it stop working lol
That's one of the real benefits - power. Using the DSI display will be much more power efficient that all the other available options, and requires a lot less hackery.
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mung
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:25 pm

jamesh wrote:
mung wrote: I know the rpi is crap, but it is the best crap currently available at the lowest price point, I think it even still beats the beagleboneblack as a jack of all trades, and the compromises that have been made to get the price down seem to work. If the cheap android tablets had good linux support and reasonable gpio interfacing that would be a different matter.
This post has some inaccuracies that need fixing. (apart from the sarcasm bit which was fair enough, and the bit about Android)

Firstly, Broadcom have no influence over the Foundation. They didn't start it, and they do not tell it what to do. I work for Broadcom, so I know this. Whilst Broadcom are getting a lot of decent press over this, that was never on the radar when the Pi was developed. It was purely a 'donation' of time and decent pricing for an educational charity. As far as I can tell, Broadcom donate more than they receive on the Raspberry Pi project. That of course may change, but that's the situation at the moment.

And secondly, the Raspi is NOT CRAP. What a weird thing to say. It's fantastically good device at a fantastic price, which even after a year of sales is still selling well, and has not been supplanted by any realistic alternative. You only have to look at the projects being done on it to see that it's not crap.
I think that broadcom may not have much influence directly over the foundation, but there is definitely influence available to them, and who knows what happens behind closed doors?

I did not mean anything negative by what I was saying, broadcom have helped the foundation, they have also possibly gained a lot from helping the foundation, this is the way the world works, no one can be expected do something without some benefit even charities, it maybe that the benefits are not obvious to everyone but they are always there.

As far as "investing more than they receive" all hi tech companies invest more than they receive because products require development before they can be sold, its always a case of "if you build it they will come". Sometimes companies build something and noone comes to buy it, but the rpi is encouraging people to build products that will require broadcom chips and possibly educating school kids how to use broadcom products that they will want to use in the future in their employment.

there is no such thing as society

As far a the rpi being crap....
"under powered, under-peripheraled tablet computer with dodgy Android support." is good???

I said the rpi is the best platform currently available in its market, it is possible for something to be crap compared with what should be available in a perfect world and still be not too bad. Maybe I am a glass half empty type of person, but if you look at everything as being crap hopefully it will encourage you to do things better next time.

What I like most about the rpi is the way the memory is attached and I think this could be extended much further to reduce cost and size and remove the need for circuit boards by using some sort of chip stacking system. What I like least of the rpi is the ethernet and usb system.

There is room for a lot of improvement it is in my opinion therefore crap that will be discarded, show me something perfect that does everything, lasts forever, and costs nothing, then I will be satisfied and will not call it crap!

jamesh
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:44 pm

mung wrote:
jamesh wrote:
mung wrote: I know the rpi is crap, but it is the best crap currently available at the lowest price point, I think it even still beats the beagleboneblack as a jack of all trades, and the compromises that have been made to get the price down seem to work. If the cheap android tablets had good linux support and reasonable gpio interfacing that would be a different matter.
This post has some inaccuracies that need fixing. (apart from the sarcasm bit which was fair enough, and the bit about Android)

Firstly, Broadcom have no influence over the Foundation. They didn't start it, and they do not tell it what to do. I work for Broadcom, so I know this. Whilst Broadcom are getting a lot of decent press over this, that was never on the radar when the Pi was developed. It was purely a 'donation' of time and decent pricing for an educational charity. As far as I can tell, Broadcom donate more than they receive on the Raspberry Pi project. That of course may change, but that's the situation at the moment.

And secondly, the Raspi is NOT CRAP. What a weird thing to say. It's fantastically good device at a fantastic price, which even after a year of sales is still selling well, and has not been supplanted by any realistic alternative. You only have to look at the projects being done on it to see that it's not crap.
I think that broadcom may not have much influence directly over the foundation, but there is definitely influence available to them, and who knows what happens behind closed doors?

I did not mean anything negative by what I was saying, broadcom have helped the foundation, they have also possibly gained a lot from helping the foundation, this is the way the world works, no one can be expected do something without some benefit even charities, it maybe that the benefits are not obvious to everyone but they are always there.

As far as "investing more than they receive" all hi tech companies invest more than they receive because products require development before they can be sold, its always a case of "if you build it they will come". Sometimes companies build something and noone comes to buy it, but the rpi is encouraging people to build products that will require broadcom chips and possibly educating school kids how to use broadcom products that they will want to use in the future in their employment.

there is no such thing as society

As far a the rpi being crap....
"under powered, under-peripheraled tablet computer with dodgy Android support." is good???

I said the rpi is the best platform currently available in its market, it is possible for something to be crap compared with what should be available in a perfect world and still be not too bad. Maybe I am a glass half empty type of person, but if you look at everything as being crap hopefully it will encourage you to do things better next time.

What I like most about the rpi is the way the memory is attached and I think this could be extended much further to reduce cost and size and remove the need for circuit boards by using some sort of chip stacking system. What I like least of the rpi is the ethernet and usb system.

There is room for a lot of improvement it is in my opinion therefore crap that will be discarded, show me something perfect that does everything, lasts forever, and costs nothing, then I will be satisfied and will not call it crap!
According to your definition, EVERYTHING is crap. Enjoy your half full pint, and your crap life.

Having influence available to Broadcom, is NOT the same as actually influencing, so please don't make assumptions (and from where I sit, it's more that the Foundation that is influencing Broadcom anyway!)
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ChromeBlue
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 3:43 pm

pluggy wrote: I'm an old dinosaur who hates touchpads on laptops let alone transparent ones with a screen underneath , give me an old world mouse and proper keyboard any day. I remember the days when I made jokes about Sinclair Spectrum keyboards, they were light years ahead of touch screen.....
Sheesh dude, you live fast paced technology environment, you can't hang on to old ways. I hated the Sinclair keyboard, but NO, it wasn't light-years ahead of touch screens by any stretch of the normal persons understanding. Are we taking a step back in tech with the PI? Of course we are (as well as tablets and mobile, and their apps) but in the long run it is a good thing since they are within the price reach of the masses and many more young minds will be introduced to computer controls.

Oh and by the way, the Pi beats my original IBM PC-XT with 10 MEGAbyte hard drive by $8,764 (and capabilities)
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MrBunsy
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:16 pm

ChromeBlue wrote:
pluggy wrote: I'm an old dinosaur who hates touchpads on laptops let alone transparent ones with a screen underneath , give me an old world mouse and proper keyboard any day. I remember the days when I made jokes about Sinclair Spectrum keyboards, they were light years ahead of touch screen.....
Sheesh dude, you live fast paced technology environment, you can't hang on to old ways.
You can if they're better! Desktops and touchscreens do not mix well. The keyboard and mouse are here for a long time yet!

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:25 pm

jamesh wrote: According to your definition, EVERYTHING is crap. Enjoy your half full pint, and your crap life.
Only 90%. Cf. Theodore Sturgeon.

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solar3000
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:39 pm

MrBunsy wrote:
ChromeBlue wrote:
pluggy wrote: I'm an old dinosaur who hates touchpads on laptops let alone transparent ones with a screen underneath , give me an old world mouse and proper keyboard any day. I remember the days when I made jokes about Sinclair Spectrum keyboards, they were light years ahead of touch screen.....
Sheesh dude, you live fast paced technology environment, you can't hang on to old ways.
You can if they're better! Desktops and touchscreens do not mix well. The keyboard and mouse are here for a long time yet!

I think you're talking about gorilla-arm.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gorilla+arm

Desktop + touchscreen monitor = gorilla-arm
Antikythera

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MrBunsy
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:42 pm

solar3000 wrote: I think you're talking about gorilla-arm.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gorilla+arm

Desktop + touchscreen monitor = gorilla-arm
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

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pluggy
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:24 pm

Any way you look at it, a touchscreen on a Pi isn't appropriate..... Image
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duberry
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:51 pm

@jamesh LOL
ChromeBlue wrote:Sheesh dude, you live fast paced technology environment, you can't hang on to old ways.
make new junk
so you can throw away old junk
then buy new junk ...
and so on

im truey intrested to see how long this (madnes) can last
and the paperless office was going to reduce waste
WTF

waste is a thing of the past
Ewaste looks like the future
lend me your arms, fast as thunderbolts, for a pillow on my journey.
If the environment was a bank, would it be too big to fail
so long; and thanks for all the pi

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Jim Manley
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:10 am

OtherCrashOverride wrote:RPi is a unified memory architecture: memory is memory.
Really? Just ignore the fact that you have to split RAM allocation between the ARM CPU and the GPU at boot time, and that you can't just write whatever/whenever you want to GPU-allocated memory from the CPU. After nearly 18 months, no one has come up with any magic silver bullets for solving the abysmal performance of things like applications running via X, and even an actual unified memory architecture would be of no help.
OtherCrashOverride wrote:The issue of why this hasn't happened yet is probably due to ... those who posses the skills to do things like this ... have been told by the hippies that RPi is only for poor school kids and to take their technological skills elsewhere.
Yeah, those "hippies" at the Foundation only embarked on this project precisely so that any student could have an even shot at learning a wide range of computing principles with their own system. It doesn't matter how much money is made by a student's parents/guardians, or anyone else, for that matter. They're not going to be able to easily do development and experimentation on a typical commercially-built PC, game system, mobile device, etc., being sold today, as readily as it can be done on the Pi. This is particularly true for the GPIO interface, or without having to install development tools that aren't included in typical consumer computing-based products. Those tools aren't available without exorbitantly expensive licenses only meant for large corporate developers of game systems. They're also not available at all on products such as mobile devices, with encryption and system updates enforcing intellectual property restrictions attempting to prevent third parties from making them available without warranty-violating, cat-and-mouse jail-breaking.

If you don't agree with the Foundation's long-articulated, unchanging education-first goals and the best you can do is resort to stating gross technical inaccuracies and name-calling, perhaps it's finally time for you to go bother others elsewhere beyond this forum with your very transparent anger issues.
The best things in life aren't things ... but, a Pi comes pretty darned close! :D
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BusDriverDriveDriven
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:19 am

Would really love one. I'm still searching for a trustable brand.

OtherCrashOverride
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:52 am

Jim Manley wrote: OtherCrashOverride wrote:RPi is a unified memory architecture: memory is memory.


Really? Just ignore the fact that you have to split RAM allocation between the ARM CPU and the GPU at boot time, and that you can't just write whatever/whenever you want to GPU-allocated memory from the CPU. After nearly 18 months, no one has come up with any magic silver bullets for solving the abysmal performance of things like applications running via X, and even an actual unified memory architecture would be of no help.
The memory 'split' is logical. It a gentleman's agreement between code running on ARM and code running on VC4 that they will respect each others boundaries. Both processors have full (read/write) access to the entirety of physical memory (unified memory) and can write in each others logical space. The "abysmal performance of things like applications running via X" is an issue entirely unrelated to the indisputable FACT that RPi is a shared memory architecture. Your rants all seem to be based on your misinterpretation of technical information.
Jim Manley wrote: OtherCrashOverride wrote:The issue of why this hasn't happened yet is probably due to ... those who posses the skills to do things like this ... have been told by the hippies that RPi is only for poor school kids and to take their technological skills elsewhere.


Yeah, those "hippies" at the Foundation only embarked on this project precisely so that any student could have an even shot at learning a wide range of computing principles with their own system. It doesn't matter how much money is made by a student's parents/guardians, or anyone else, for that matter. They're not going to be able to easily do development and experimentation on a typical commercially-built PC, game system, mobile device, etc., being sold today, as readily as it can be done on the Pi. This is particularly true for the GPIO interface, or without having to install development tools that aren't included in typical consumer computing-based products. Those tools aren't available without exorbitantly expensive licenses only meant for large corporate developers of game systems. They're also not available at all on products such as mobile devices, with encryption and system updates enforcing intellectual property restrictions attempting to prevent third parties from making them available without warranty-violating, cat-and-mouse jail-breaking.
First off, its you who called them "hippies", not me. Secondly, your entire argument falls apart on two main points:
1) "They're not going to be able to easily do development and experimentation on a typical commercially-built PC, game system, mobile device, etc., being sold today, as readily as it can be done on the Pi."
PCs are as open to development and experimentation as the RPi. Game systems such as XBox have C#/XNA, Kodu, and now Project Spark for development and experimentation. PlayStation Vita has a C# based SDK that anyone can use. Mobile devices such as iOS and Android both offer SDKs. So the conclusion is that this is an issue for you, not kids that are already using these devices to learn, develop and experiment.
2) "Those tools aren't available without exorbitantly expensive licenses only meant for large corporate developers of game systems."
The VC4 SDK and tools are also only available under such conditions.
Jim Manley wrote:If you don't agree with the Foundation's long-articulated, unchanging education-first goals and the best you can do is resort to stating gross technical inaccuracies and name-calling, perhaps it's finally time for you to go bother others elsewhere beyond this forum with your very transparent anger issues.
The Foundation has never demonstrated exclusionary practices that you seem to foster as their self-appointed spokesman. If you review all these debates and look at your posting history, you will discover that there are indeed "gross technical inaccuracies and name-calling", and that you are the one doing it. I believe you just made my point by telling me to take my facts and technical skills elsewhere.

In conclusion, advocating segregation and exclusion is contrary to the community as a whole. I would much prefer a welcoming and inclusive social atmosphere where everyone is allowed to utilize their skills (technical or otherwise) to the benefit of their fellow man whether that individual is a poor school kid or Bill Gates.

jamesh
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:31 am

That's enough. This is going to turn a sensible thread in to name calling. Some people never learn.

Locking.
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