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When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:04 am

I think I read somewhere that the next addon to be developed after the camera would be a touchscreen to interface via the DSI port.

Anyone have any idea when this may appear and what the possible specs maybe?

I am hoping this will come soon as in my opinion a touchscreen is more important than a camera as it would allow the rpi to be used standalone without the need for k/v/m.

What is the price point going to be, I hope $25 for a 640x480 res, but would think most would prefer a 800x600 res @ $35, and I guess a 5" minimum size to get a usable touchscreen keyboard.

What are the foundations plans?

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:19 am

It's currently being thought about.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:24 am

Turn the Pi into an under powered, under-peripheraled tablet computer with dodgy Android support. Be still my beating heart.......
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:35 pm

jamesh wrote:It's currently being thought about.
Hopefully quickly. I want one too!
I'm happy to help.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:03 pm

pluggy wrote:Turn the Pi into an under powered, under-peripheraled tablet computer with dodgy Android support. Be still my beating heart.......
Way to miss the point. Tablets may be the current shiney shiney touch screen examples, but they are used in other areas as well ! How about a Pi powered vending machine, or a touch XBMC device, or a touch enabled car computer, or a touch enabled frikken laser attached to a shark! The world is endless.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:18 pm

Hmmm.....

Would a touch screen work under water if you did stick it on a shark ?

In the world I inhabit, vending machines should have real buttons. Touch screen is what you use when you don't have any other options, its a naff technology in my book. Of course, I'm an old dinosaur who hates touchpads on laptops let alone transparent ones with a screen underneath , give me an old world mouse and proper keyboard any day. I remember the days when I made jokes about Sinclair Spectrum keyboards, they were light years ahead of touch screen.....
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:26 pm

pluggy wrote:Hmmm.....

Would a touch screen work under water if you did stick it on a shark ?
they have "cases" for ereaders that are waterproof so i'm sure one could be modified for a raspi+touchscreen although i'm not sure i'd let the controls of the laser be where the shark or his buddies could operate it.
pluggy wrote: In the world I inhabit, vending machines should have real buttons. Touch screen is what you use when you don't have any other options, its a naff technology in my book. Of course, I'm an old dinosaur who hates touchpads on laptops let alone transparent ones with a screen underneath , give me an old world mouse and proper keyboard any day. I remember the days when I made jokes about Sinclair Spectrum keyboards, they were light years ahead of touch screen.....
i'm a bigger dinosaur than you :) i don't even have a smartphone (other than development ones) but i can see the use for devices having touch screens rather than buttons, i do like a button or two myself but context based keyboards and menus are handy and can be made really idiot and dinosaur proof, even my technology challanged step-father can use his dvr using the universal remote my sister bought him because the menus only display what he needs rather than having a zillion buttons

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 2:39 pm

Personally I like a Mars bar to stay a Mars bar until it hits my digestive system, I don't want it morphing into something else when I touch a button..... ;)
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:46 pm

jamesh wrote:It's currently being thought about.
Any estimated time scale available?
I think this would have more people bouncing off the walls than the camera board did... Imagine the 2 together, the world first (or certainlty cheapest) DIY compact camera, that can do anything lol
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:49 pm

Well, the RPF worked about a year on the CSI board, and just started (if they did start already) on the DSI board.
Just saying.... :mrgreen:

Anyway, as simple LCD is already possible, one of our moderators (Texy) has developed a "LCD shield".
http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 59&t=43286

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 3:54 pm

pluggy wrote:Personally I like a Mars bar to stay a Mars bar until it hits my digestive system, I don't want it morphing into something else when I touch a button..... ;)
well don't come to the states then. a mars bar is a milky way, a marathon is a snickers (it was renamed in the uk in the 90s wasn't?) a milky way is a three musketeers & hershey's chocolate isn't

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:30 pm

pluggy wrote:Hmmm.....

Would a touch screen work under water if you did stick it on a shark ?

In the world I inhabit, vending machines should have real buttons. Touch screen is what you use when you don't have any other options, its a naff technology in my book. Of course, I'm an old dinosaur who hates touchpads on laptops let alone transparent ones with a screen underneath , give me an old world mouse and proper keyboard any day. I remember the days when I made jokes about Sinclair Spectrum keyboards, they were light years ahead of touch screen.....
Doing quite well for a naff technology. Like anything, it has it's place. And when done well, works well, and when done badly, works badly.

Touchscreens for example are very useful in industrial environments as they are much cheaper and easier to IP rate. They work very well on smartphones - imagine trying to use Android solely with buttons. They also work well on SatNavs and a multitude of other devices. And of course, there are also examples where they work really badly - desktop monitors come to mind.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 4:32 pm

dan3008 wrote:
jamesh wrote:It's currently being thought about.
Any estimated time scale available?
I think this would have more people bouncing off the walls than the camera board did... Imagine the 2 together, the world first (or certainlty cheapest) DIY compact camera, that can do anything lol
If I knew that and was allowed to post it, I would have. But I don't know it, and I doubt there even is a timescale yet, and I doubt I'd be allowed to say when anyway!

And of course the compactness depends on the size of the panel. And batteries.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:05 pm

Personally i doubt there is much interest to this. Rpi works fine with all kinds of devices and arduino interfaced etc as headless system, but it is hopelessly slow on drawing the screen. I have not had much success in using it with x or browsers. So i doubt it will work nicely with a screen. Better concentrate the limited development resources to speed up basic screen handling. Just my opinion.

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:16 pm

I don't care about touch (and I share the disdain for laptop touchpads), but a nice, small (inexpensive) screen to go with the Pi would be nice. I could have my "alarm clock" display the time, and--if I got really clever--perhaps the track name that mplayer is currently streaming. (I'm sure that there must be a way to redirect the output of a cron job to a window..."tail -f" perhaps?)

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:21 pm

To be honest, I just want to be able to attach a screen and run the whole lot off one battery lol. the DSI connector seemed to be the best option, but now i'm starting to question that one lol

I'd been thinking about a portable DVD drive hack, but i lack the skills, even with my one that has a composite video in. and i don't want to hack it up, and then it stop working lol
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:13 pm

dan3008 wrote:I'd been thinking about a portable DVD drive hack, but i lack the skills, even with my one that has a composite video in. and i don't want to hack it up, and then it stop working lol
You'd be much better off using a portable Blu-ray player with a 10-inch display, some of which cost around $130 (although models with a 1080p display seems to cost at least $210). Then use the various SD card, Ethernet, and composite analog(ue) video/audio inputs available on most models (which all appear to be available on the $210+ models) to display analog(ue) and digital video and audio.

Unfortunately, none of these products has any way to accept the Pi's HDMI digital video and audio input as every HD TV and monitor is designed to do. Granted, HDMI input isn't even in the top 100 features in the design requirements for the disk player products ... that probably only have about 50 required design features. Not even the 1.5 million Pi market is large enough to cause disk player manufacturers to consider putting an HDMI input port in their players, partially because probably no more than a few percent would be interested in such a feature. Those numbers are too small for even the best-selling disk players to absorb the extra cost of including a digital video input.

The above isn't directly related to a DSI display, but getting back to the topic, the Foundation is going to have to make a highly-compromised choice on a display already in production at high volume in order to minimize the cost, but that will still be in production for at least a few years. Those are conflicting factors as, by the time a display reaches high enough volume, it's going to be closer to end-of-production than even middle-of-production in its manufacturing lifetime. No matter what display size and horizontal and vertical pixel counts are selected for the official display, everyone is going to have a disparate opinion on what they want.

Rumor has it that a smaller size (~5 inches) and a larger size (~7 inches) display might ultimately be targeted, with those sizes already available in large volumes for various products and the retail prices below about $50 and $75, respectively. Those prices would include development costs that might require a specific display interface circuit board, similar to how the Pi camera does. These are almost certainly not actually the Foundation's criteria, but they seem to make sense from a ballpark perspective - if the prices can be brought significantly below those levels, so much the better. However, volumes for displays will be well below those for the Pi themselves, so these will be even riskier to produce than the Pi, originally.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:35 pm

pluggy wrote:Turn the Pi into an under powered, under-peripheraled tablet computer with dodgy Android support. Be still my beating heart.......
Wow is that a sarchasm you have fallen into or are you just playing devils advocate?

I know the pi is marketed as 'educational computer' but that does not just mean 'for the kids', I think the whole foundation thing is a very clever way of broadcom pushing its hardware into future products in a very efficient way. It is educating developers not just school kids!

The rpi has not even got into schools yet and has a huge user base and most of the buyers are hobbiests and hackers, and every hobbiest/hacker could be developing something that may evolve into a large selling integrated product. Maybe someone will create something that a large electronics manufacturer says 'hey that user interface will look great on our new sony HD TV, lets put the broadcom chip in it', or it could be a fridge manufacturer that wants to add automatic inventory and reordering to the fridge and teams up with tesco/sainsburys/morrisons/etc.., or maybe a washing machine manufacturer wants to integrate a computer to contact the electricity supplier to schedule when is best time to use take power from the grid.

There are so many products that could add in a small soc, but they all need a user interface, that means display and input, and a touchscreen is the cheapest way to do that in a small size.

I imagine there must be many mobile phone screens that could be adapted, but I think price is the most important factor when integrating a rpi into a piece of equipment in the $300 price range I guess $50 absolute max for the soc and interface.

I know the rpi is not intended for this product integration (according to the foundation), but I wonder if maybe broadcom is hoping that there will soon be many people leaving school with knowledge of developing for broadcom systems.

I know the rpi is crap, but it is the best crap currently available at the lowest price point, I think it even still beats the beagleboneblack as a jack of all trades, and the compromises that have been made to get the price down seem to work. If the cheap android tablets had good linux support and reasonable gpio interfacing that would be a different matter.

And as far as android I think you are crazy, linux is what brings people to the rpi, there is so much source code available it makes development of new integrated and embedded systems so much easier for the individual hacker, lashing together the packages from other closed source platforms is not conducive to the small developer.

I WANT MY CHEAP TOUCHSCREEN NOW!!!!!! :lol:

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:43 pm

Touch screen or not I can imagine 4 or 7 inch screen would make a great view finder for the Raspi camera module. With a short circuit through the GPU from camera to screen I'm sure this would be plenty fast enough.

Shame that would all have to be closed source, I'm sure if the GPU were open there would be some bright spark out there already have done this.

Still, give us a way to overlay controls on that viewfinder from Raspian or whatever and we are in business.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:02 pm

If you are desperate for a display, some people already have small ones working using SPI interface, see for example:
1.8 inch display: http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 64&t=43285
3.2 inch display: http://marks-space.com/2013/05/23/raspb ... h-control/

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:10 am

The 3.2 version looks good for what l need, now if someone just made one l could just plug in :D

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:07 am

Heater wrote:Touch screen or not I can imagine 4 or 7 inch screen would make a great view finder for the Raspi camera module. With a short circuit through the GPU from camera to screen I'm sure this would be plenty fast enough.

Shame that would all have to be closed source, I'm sure if the GPU were open there would be some bright spark out there already have done this.

Still, give us a way to overlay controls on that viewfinder from Raspian or whatever and we are in business.
This is readily achievable with everything 'on the table' so far. The camera writes to memory. The GPU scans out from memory. RPi is a unified memory architecture: memory is memory. So while the camera preview is running, dispmanx (or OpenWC if that ever starts working) can overlay other elements on that preview.

The issue of why this hasn't happened yet is probably due to two factors: 1) The camera is not available for another month yet and 2a) those who posses the skills to do things like this are busy with other things at the Foundation or 2b) have been told by the hippies that RPi is only for poor school kids and to take their technological skills elsewhere.

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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:16 am

mung wrote:
pluggy wrote:Turn the Pi into an under powered, under-peripheraled tablet computer with dodgy Android support. Be still my beating heart.......
Wow is that a sarchasm you have fallen into or are you just playing devils advocate?

I know the pi is marketed as 'educational computer' but that does not just mean 'for the kids', I think the whole foundation thing is a very clever way of broadcom pushing its hardware into future products in a very efficient way. It is educating developers not just school kids!

The rpi has not even got into schools yet and has a huge user base and most of the buyers are hobbiests and hackers, and every hobbiest/hacker could be developing something that may evolve into a large selling integrated product. Maybe someone will create something that a large electronics manufacturer says 'hey that user interface will look great on our new sony HD TV, lets put the broadcom chip in it', or it could be a fridge manufacturer that wants to add automatic inventory and reordering to the fridge and teams up with tesco/sainsburys/morrisons/etc.., or maybe a washing machine manufacturer wants to integrate a computer to contact the electricity supplier to schedule when is best time to use take power from the grid.

There are so many products that could add in a small soc, but they all need a user interface, that means display and input, and a touchscreen is the cheapest way to do that in a small size.

I imagine there must be many mobile phone screens that could be adapted, but I think price is the most important factor when integrating a rpi into a piece of equipment in the $300 price range I guess $50 absolute max for the soc and interface.

I know the rpi is not intended for this product integration (according to the foundation), but I wonder if maybe broadcom is hoping that there will soon be many people leaving school with knowledge of developing for broadcom systems.

I know the rpi is crap, but it is the best crap currently available at the lowest price point, I think it even still beats the beagleboneblack as a jack of all trades, and the compromises that have been made to get the price down seem to work. If the cheap android tablets had good linux support and reasonable gpio interfacing that would be a different matter.

And as far as android I think you are crazy, linux is what brings people to the rpi, there is so much source code available it makes development of new integrated and embedded systems so much easier for the individual hacker, lashing together the packages from other closed source platforms is not conducive to the small developer.

I WANT MY CHEAP TOUCHSCREEN NOW!!!!!! :lol:
This post has some inaccuracies that need fixing. (apart from the sarcasm bit which was fair enough, and the bit about Android)

Firstly, Broadcom have no influence over the Foundation. They didn't start it, and they do not tell it what to do. I work for Broadcom, so I know this. Whilst Broadcom are getting a lot of decent press over this, that was never on the radar when the Pi was developed. It was purely a 'donation' of time and decent pricing for an educational charity. As far as I can tell, Broadcom donate more than they receive on the Raspberry Pi project. That of course may change, but that's the situation at the moment.

And secondly, the Raspi is NOT CRAP. What a weird thing to say. It's fantastically good device at a fantastic price, which even after a year of sales is still selling well, and has not been supplanted by any realistic alternative. You only have to look at the projects being done on it to see that it's not crap.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:18 am

OtherCrashOverride wrote:
Heater wrote:Touch screen or not I can imagine 4 or 7 inch screen would make a great view finder for the Raspi camera module. With a short circuit through the GPU from camera to screen I'm sure this would be plenty fast enough.

Shame that would all have to be closed source, I'm sure if the GPU were open there would be some bright spark out there already have done this.

Still, give us a way to overlay controls on that viewfinder from Raspian or whatever and we are in business.
This is readily achievable with everything 'on the table' so far. The camera writes to memory. The GPU scans out from memory. RPi is a unified memory architecture: memory is memory. So while the camera preview is running, dispmanx (or OpenWC if that ever starts working) can overlay other elements on that preview.

The issue of why this hasn't happened yet is probably due to two factors: 1) The camera is not available for another month yet and 2a) those who posses the skills to do things like this are busy with other things at the Foundation or 2b) have been told by the hippies that RPi is only for poor school kids and to take their technological skills elsewhere.
Actually, not quite as unified as you might like, since the GPU sees a flat address space, and the ARM has an MMU, which is a bit awkward to deal with. But with dispmanx you should be able to overlay stuff OK. To overlay and get it recorded on to images is a a bit more involved.
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Re: When is the rpi DSI touchscreen due?

Wed Jun 26, 2013 8:23 am

shuckle wrote:Personally i doubt there is much interest to this. Rpi works fine with all kinds of devices and arduino interfaced etc as headless system, but it is hopelessly slow on drawing the screen. I have not had much success in using it with x or browsers. So i doubt it will work nicely with a screen. Better concentrate the limited development resources to speed up basic screen handling. Just my opinion.
It's not hopelessly slow. X is a pain because it's a bit inefficient at high bit depths, esp. with things like browsers which are very slow renderers anyway, but check out the stuff on Weston Wayland and QT and you can do really fast stuff. Which, when using a touchscreen, you are likely to be using, so there should be no performance problems at all if you use the right stuff. Don't mistake the problems with badly written browser renderers with an inherent overall performance problem. We have 700Mhz+ to play with here, you can do a hell of a lot of pixel ops with that sort of performance. I've written graphical interfaces on industrial kit with 50Mhz processors that ran absolutely fine.
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