sightlight
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:19 pm

Will I be able to install stepmania to the pi?
Its linux native and it runs on my ubuntu 10.10 netbook.

EDIT: forgot the link.. http://www.stepmania.com/downl.....nux.tar.gz

ShiftPlusOne
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:30 pm

All "will it run" answers are mostly speculation until community devs get their r-pi's. If it's open source and linux-compatible it should run.

sightlight
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:35 pm

Yea. Its open source. I want my pi!

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:22 pm

You may need to compile it (and if you're unlucky it's dependencies as well) yourself for the ARM processor. But basically, yes.
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:54 pm

Stepmania is programmed in SDL, so, yes, probably!

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 7:00 pm

I see. Very good.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:22 pm

Quote from RITRedbeard on August 24, 2011, 18:54
Stepmania is programmed in SDL, so, yes, probably!



Er, think it's C++. That said, a recompile should get it working.

http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/.....alkthrough
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Svartalf
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:35 pm

Quote from jamesh on August 24, 2011, 21:22
Quote from RITRedbeard on August 24, 2011, 18:54
Stepmania is programmed in SDL, so, yes, probably!



Er, think it's C++. That said, a recompile should get it working.

http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/.....alkthrough



SDL is the library that many use to make games on Linux, with ClanLib and Allegro being the other two top libs. Having said this, it's very likely to be just a recompile in a cross-compile chain or a native compile away from running on things because of what they're saying and what you're saying.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:36 pm

Quote from RobinJ on August 24, 2011, 18:22
You may need to compile it (and if you're unlucky it's dependencies as well) yourself for the ARM processor. But basically, yes.

Heh... Welcome to the fun and the bane of a commercial game developer for Linux. :D

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:56 pm

Can we compile it now and geti it ready or we have to wait?

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:47 am

well.. you could theoretically compile it for *an* arm11 environment, but compiling it for the r-pi will not be possible at this time. There's going to be a special bit to add to the kernel that will control communication with the GPU, and we don't have access to it yet.
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:53 am

Abishur, why would that have any effect on compiled software at all? The GPU part will be handled by the kernel and the module, it shouldn't affect the actual software.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:41 am

I'm assuming (and perhaps incorrectly) that the poster was asking about setting up a complete image that you can throw straight onto the r-pi (which is what some people have asked for on various threads). Now if, as you said, they just want the one piece of software then yeah, all they'd need is a virtual (or physical) ARM11 environment in which to compile their code... I think. I don't know an overly large amount about ARM, but I do know that there's a lot of nuance between ARM chips. I'm assuming that all ARM11 chips are created equal and that the special bit added into the kernel to handle the GPU won't affect the compiling process. But ultimately I haven't worked with ARM chips and I don't know if that will affect things or not.
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:53 am

Ah, I see. Yeah, until we have the hardware, we aren't able to make our own images.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:34 pm

Quote from abishur on August 25, 2011, 06:41
I'm assuming (and perhaps incorrectly) that the poster was asking about setting up a complete image that you can throw straight onto the r-pi (which is what some people have asked for on various threads). Now if, as you said, they just want the one piece of software then yeah, all they'd need is a virtual (or physical) ARM11 environment in which to compile their code... I think. I don't know an overly large amount about ARM, but I do know that there's a lot of nuance between ARM chips. I'm assuming that all ARM11 chips are created equal and that the special bit added into the kernel to handle the GPU won't affect the compiling process. But ultimately I haven't worked with ARM chips and I don't know if that will affect things or not.

In the large, if you pick ARMv5, it should simply work on any subsequent versioning of the Arch that possesses what you're generating. So, if you pick, say, ARMv5, it should work on ARM9 (v5), ARM11 (v6), and Cortex (v7). Pretty much any EABI based toolchain or distribution, barring device driver issues, should work as a playground since EABI's going to default to v5 code generation unless you override it. Just don't override any of the architecture based options on compile and you should get consistent results for what'll be on the R-Pi. Performance metrics will have to come from the device, but some of us tinkerers should be able to get a running start on things for the board as long as we realise that a BeagleBoard/Gumstix Overo/etc. is liable to be 3-4 times faster than this beastie on CPU based code.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:37 pm

Quote from ShiftPlusOne on August 25, 2011, 07:53
Ah, I see. Yeah, until we have the hardware, we don't be able to make our own images.

Depends on what you're going to be doing. If you're building up a UI/distribution image, you should be able to cobble up something to start getting comfortable with by doing a QEMU image, or conversely, if you know a bit about embedded stuff, you could baseline stuff on a Beagleboard or similar, knowing that you may be 3-4 times slower on some tasks.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:45 pm

"we don't be able", lol.. whoops.

Anyway, yeah I am working on a qemu image, but obviously that won't translate directly to a raspberry pi.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:53 pm

Quote from ShiftPlusOne on August 25, 2011, 17:45
Anyway, yeah I am working on a qemu image, but obviously that won't translate directly to a raspberry pi.

Actually, much of it will. Anything you can manage that doesn't need the GPIO, OpenGL ES, and similar stuff will go, pretty much one-to-one to the device. So, what CAN you do with it?

Anything that supports X11.
Anything that supports console.

That's actually a broad range of things unless you're aiming for a 3D game (waves hand...) to be put on it. You could even manage 2D game validation on the system with QEMU if you've got a muscular enough machine.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 4:56 pm

Again, we were talking about a whole system image (kernel, rootfs and all).

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:00 pm

Quote from ShiftPlusOne on August 25, 2011, 17:56
Again, we were talking about a whole system image (kernel, rootfs and all).

Heh... The kernel's not the crucial part, really. The userland's (rootfs) what you should be worrying about- and unless you're needing a device driver or something like 3D or OpenVG support, your userland, so long as you don't change from armv5 mode on GCC, will just simply drop on there as long as the kernel version's ABI is identical to the one they initially run with. Seriously. :D

The differences will be with things like on-board hardware, USB devices plugged in, 3D and the like. I'm strongly tempted to build up something for people to start working with the dogsbody stuff for the community that doesn't touch on those things.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:21 pm

Yup, I've mentioned that.

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:32 pm

I was reading some internal docs the other day, and the HW accelerated OpenGL and VG uses a standard Linux library interface so if you write/use code that is written to that it should work on the Raspi (simply replace the standard lib with the Raspi ones and you get drop in HW acceleration). Unfortunately I don't know the names of the Linux libraries...sure it's on the Khronos website somewhere.

Media playback etc is more difficult - we use OpenMAX and there isn't a standard Linux library for that.
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Re: Stepmania for linux

Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:03 pm

Unfortunately you will not find any wrapper layers for ES on the Kronos site. The best you can hope for in this regard is that the Gallium3D stuff's up to snuff on your distribution or join Imagination Technology's developer program to download the Linux X86 SDK adapter and testing kit.

OpenMAX, heh... Well, I don't know how far they've gotten, but there's AL, IL, and DL layer code available for Linux from places like http://limoa.sourceforge.net/. However, isn't OpenMAX a bit high-level and constraining for the purposes of what we're looking for here? Don't you expose an ALSA driver for sound?

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:14 am

Quote from jamesh on August 24, 2011, 21:22
Quote from RITRedbeard on August 24, 2011, 18:54
Stepmania is programmed in SDL, so, yes, probably!



Er, think it's C++. That said, a recompile should get it working.

http://www.stepmania.com/wiki/.....alkthrough



Oh, well, right.
I meant the interface/API/middleware is SDL which is excellent for portage between x86 win and x86 linux (assuming opengl and not directx...)

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Re: Stepmania for linux

Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:54 am

Quote from RITRedbeard on August 27, 2011, 03:14
Oh, well, right.
I meant the interface/API/middleware is SDL which is excellent for portage between x86 win and x86 linux (assuming opengl and not directx...)


Heh... It allows you to put it anywhere that you're doing SDL and OpenGL. Even ARM systems and ES systems as long as you pick the right subset of OpenGL to work with. ;)

Sound...that's a bit of an issue. If it's only accessable via OpenMAX, it's going to be a bit of a pain because most stuff is wired in via Miles, FMOD EX, IrrKlang, OpenAL, etc. in the game dev and other application worlds on Windows and Linux. All the published games I've done have been using OpenAL at the core for sound. Two of them also use a wrapper called cAudio that simplifies the use of OpenAL considerably and make it easier to replace FMOD classic, FMOD EX, amd IrrKlang as all of the others other than OpenAL, SDL_mixer and Allegro 5 do not support ARM Linux and you'll be doing modifications to your sound code no matter what.

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