liamc
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:50 am

I have a feeling that people are already forgetting whos behind these boards. Forgetting that a reasonably small team of people are working non stop around the clock, and all for one reason, to get kids into programming.

Look I get it, we all want our byte, we"ve ordered and some of us have already had missed estimated delivery dates, but we have to put this into perspective. We are getting a computer for around £30!

Everyone seems to forget that this is still a charity, and the fact they are going through two distributors is irrelevant, we need to keep supporting them.

So what I"m asking is is it not time we gave the foundation some room to breath and let them get on with what they need to do?

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Robert_M
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 3:14 am

A scholar and a gentleman.

+1
I sometimes ride my Pi to the Forum.


haitek
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:33 am

Great stuff Team! We really do appreciate your work and anticipate future developments.

8-)

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Tass
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 8:40 am

Couldn"t agree more!


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alexeames
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:33 am

Yes. I agree. It seems in the internet age, patience has gone out the window. It seems to be a general thing though. I was checking out whether Samsung had released Ice Cream Sandwich for my unlocked galaxy S2 yesterday and on CNET people are harranging them (just like has been happening here) because their announcement says rollout starts week commencing 19th March and "it's Friday already". People are talking about jumping ship to HTC because of a perceived four day delay in releasing an update.

It's really pathetic. If we all stop answering the whingy posts, maybe they'll just fall off page 1 and disappear?
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liamfraser280
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:03 am

You are completely correct Liam. Thanks for taking the time to make an account on the forums to post this. Liz and Eben were on holiday last week for a well deserved break (and Liz's birthday) They do a cracking job and I'm proud to be volunteering for them!

JohnW
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 10:22 am

Very good post Liam.

The initial batch was a development release, so delays (and a degree of confusion) were always possible, it is a step towards the full consumer release.

I guess the message that the consumer release will be later this year got lost on Feb 29th, but the fact that the foundation have created such demand for a brand new product is remarkable.

I agree with the post about patience as well. Sadly we are living in a society where people want everything straight away, and will throw their toys out of the pram at any hint that they will not get what they want.

Sadly Terry Pratchett was spot on in the quote

There are, it has been said, two types of people in the world. There are those who, when presented with a glass that is exactly half full, say: this glass is half full. And then there are those who say: this glass is half empty. The world belongs, however, to those who can look at the glass and say: What's up with this glass? Excuse me? Excuse me? This is my glass? I don't think so. My glass was full! And it was a bigger glass!

john_wage
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:51 pm

The compliance testing does seem a bit like a slap in the face though.. After I'm done soldering on mine it wont comply to ANY legal standards! Mwahaha! >8D

jamesh
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:10 pm

It does seem that everything that could possibly have gone awry, has, indeed gone awry. Most of the recent problems have been down to success rather than anything else. The sheer number of people wanting a board caused problems with supply, and has now prompted the unexpected certification issue. The ethernet plug is another out of the foundations hands issue.

The only thing I would add to Liam's OP - all the members of the Foundation are unpaid. This entire project has no employees AT ALL. Just volunteers, most of whom have day jobs.

It's truly a shame that so many obstacles have appeared and so many people have berated this volunteer project as a consequence.
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xtramural
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:28 pm

+1 Liam. I sincerely hope that the RPF founders and their willing band of volunteers don't get disheartened by the negativity exhibited by some people in these forums.

Those of us intending to use RPI to get kids into programming and computer science really appreciate the fact that such a cheap and functional device has been designed and manufactured for altruistic reasons and we really look forward to putting the vision of the RPF into practice.

IMO, the success of the RPF will be measured in terms of how many people like me are enthused enough to contribute to the their aims and to help as many kids as possible appreciate how important computational thinking is in this day and age.

Smartybones
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:37 pm

I have nothing but contempt for the people that have given the foundation a hard time. its just nasty.

I dont think the cretins have any idea how hard it actually is to bring a new product to market. never mind the money they have put up for it. and all they can do is complain they have to wait a little longer because the initial 10,000 could have sold 20 times over.

I could imagine they would have a little bit to moan at if they had all paid up in advance expecting a board 28 days later, and its been stretched out to twice that, but they haven't, so they need to just chill...

the fact that there has been a massive clamber for boards has more or less secured the immediate future of the foundation. having about half a million people all wanting to hand over some cash for a board will set investors and venture capitalists all tingling with anticipation. Its proven that there IS a market for small very lo cost single chip machines and money can be made. expect many more similar boards in the not to distant future.

Joe Schmoe
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:42 pm

@JamesH:

Just out of curiosity, how is it that the "unexpected success" caused the "compliance issue"?  (Seriously, nothing untoward intended - just curious.  And, I know there are a couple of threads on the "compliance issue", which I have tl;dr'd.)

I guess what I am really asking is (and, quite seriously, I have no facts or data to go on here) "How was the compliance thing unexpected?"
And some folks need to stop being fanboys and see the forest behind the trees.

(One of the best lines I've seen on this board lately)

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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:14 pm

Joe Schmoe said:


@JamesH:

Just out of curiosity, how is it that the "unexpected success" caused the "compliance issue"?  (Seriously, nothing untoward intended - just curious.  And, I know there are a couple of threads on the "compliance issue", which I have tl;dr'd.)

I guess what I am really asking is (and, quite seriously, I have no facts or data to go on here) "How was the compliance thing unexpected?"


It wasn't unexpected.  It's always been known  that the educational release would need all the certifications. The initial batch however, was intended as a development board run which doesn't require the same level of certification.  However, with the massive order received, it's doesn't really class as a dev board any more - at least according to RS and Farnell.

Had we just sold the 10k, with low demand, certification could have waited. Now it cannot.
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poing
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:16 pm

I think that makes sense.

hippy
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:30 pm

Smartybones said:


I have nothing but contempt for the people that have given the foundation a hard time. its just nasty.

I dont think the cretins have any idea how hard it actually is to bring a new product to market.


When people raised issues pre-launch they were told the Foundation were not amateurs, knew what they were doing, and had everything under control.

That set the standard by which the Foundation would be judged and perhaps crafted the petard by which they could later be hung. Being dismissive of those who did have concerns or, worse, labelling them 'haters' did not help; especially where those people have experience of bringing product to market and could see what has now happened coming.

The Foundation have done an excellent job in achieving what they have and should be applauded for that, but equally I've heard it described as a model example of how to fluff a product launch.

Take your pick. Either way it should be water under the bridge, there's nothing that can be done about it now. But the issue keeps raising its head and there are two sides to every story.

People will see things differently and one side might not see it how the other does. Simply dismissing those who are annoyed at the current state of affairs, or calling them cretins, will not help improve the situation. All it does is further polarise opinions.

john_wage
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:33 pm

hippy said:


Smartybones said:


I have nothing but contempt for the people that have given the foundation a hard time. its just nasty.

I dont think the cretins have any idea how hard it actually is to bring a new product to market.


When people raised issues pre-launch they were told the Foundation were not amateurs, knew what they were doing, and had everything under control.

That set the standard by which the Foundation would be judged and perhaps crafted the petard by which they could later be hung. Being dismissive of those who did have concerns or, worse, labelling them 'haters' did not help; especially where those people have experience of bringing product to market and could see what has now happened coming.

The Foundation have done an excellent job in achieving what they have and should be applauded for that, but equally I've heard it described as a model example of how to fluff a product launch.

Take your pick. Either way it should be water under the bridge, there's nothing that can be done about it now. But the issue keeps raising its head and there are two sides to every story.

People will see things differently and one side might not see it how the other does. Simply dismissing those who are annoyed at the current state of affairs, or calling them cretins, will not help improve the situation. All it does is further polarise opinions.


that was one of the smartest things I have read in my entire life!

poing
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:41 pm

hippy said:


...


True enough, but those who know to skillfully launch a product didn't come up with it and those who did come up with the product didn't know how to launch it skillfully.

So it will be August, big deal...

jamodio
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:47 pm

hippy said:


People will see things differently and one side might not see it how the other does. Simply dismissing those who are annoyed at the current state of affairs, or calling them cretins, will not help improve the situation. All it does is further polarise opinions.


Agreed, it seems that if you have a different opinion your comments are taken as an insult or an attack.

Sigh ...

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nick.mccloud
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:49 pm

JamesH said:




I guess what I am really asking is (and, quite seriously, I have no facts or data to go on here) "How was the compliance thing unexpected?"


It wasn't unexpected.  It's always been known  that the educational release would need all the certifications. The initial batch however, was intended as a development board run which doesn't require the same level of certification.  However, with the massive order received, it's doesn't really class as a dev board any more - at least according to RS and Farnell.


This scarily sounds like the Foundation have lost control of its objective by placing too much control in the hands of RS & Farnell. Let's hope that they don't make too many more unilateral decisions and have all the goodwill built up for this project fade to nothing.

hippy
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:51 pm

poing said:


hippy said:


...


True enough, but those who know to skillfully launch a product didn't come up with it and those who did come up with the product didn't know how to launch it skillfully.


I think it's somewhat more complex than that and it has to be recognised that the Foundation undoubtedly did the best they could and always with the best intent.

Pointing to where things may have gone wrong or apportioning blame serves no useful purpose here, and we all ought to be concentrating on moving forward with what we have now.

Neither attacking nor defending the Foundation will get anyone closer to where everyone would like to be.

tufty
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:00 pm

The launch was a disaster, and the followup is getting worse, but that"s largely out of the hands of the foundation.

The foundation can do, should do (and may in fact be doing) something about loss of focus, however. Regardless of where the actual hardware launch is going, there"s 10k boards out there and I would hope the foundation will end up with some of them, which they should be using to seed projects that are forwarding the actual goals of the foundation. I"m thinking semi-permanent loan rather than donation or purchase, in order to avoid the situation where the device ends up doing nothing to further their goals (for an examle which may not be true, see The first Raspberry Pi build is a MAME machine

I was part of the dev group ... mine is a mythbox

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selectany
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:21 pm

I intended to buy a laptop for my son and teach him for programming, but I read here about RPi -> "… to get kids into programming".

Why should I choose PRi, but not some common laptop or PC?

Smartybones
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Re: Shouldn't we just give the foundation a break now?

Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:30 pm

nmcc said:

This scarily sounds like the Foundation have lost control of its objective by placing too much control in the hands of RS & Farnell. Let's hope that they don't make too many more unilateral decisions and have all the goodwill built up for this project fade to nothing.

When RS and Farnell step up to take control of the distribution, it is up to them to make sure that the boards are up to the legal standards required in each country they are selling in.

If they had only sold 4000 board each, then they each could still stand on the point of view that its a development board and therefore dos not need compliance testing. The fact they they received 200,000 requests each, and a quick read of the internet clearly sees that a lot of the customers are end users its a bit of a stretch of the reality to keep to the "its only a dev board and doesn't need compliance testing".

Like all companies, its all about covering their own asses first. they wont want to get burned by some government department because some rival single chip computer maker is crying over it.

Its better to add another week delay than have to spend a fortune on lawyers because a Pi causes interference on some ham radio frequencies, and cant chat to their friend the other side of the country on short-wave radio. Heaven forbid they have to pick up a telephone !

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