Skygod
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:09 pm

The Raspberry Pi board is simply the first project undertaken by the Raspberry Pi Foundation. The project is almost closed as they have brought a product to market and there are distributors that are willing to undertake manufacture under licence on their behalf.

The project will be complete once the Model A is in production.

The Foundation will then determine their next project which I'm guessing will have more UK institutional objectives.

The 'community' of early adopters will hopefully make the Raspberry Pi hardware (and its inevitable clones) to be considered as a 'mainstream' device.

That adds leverage to the argument that the device can be introduced to UK educational institutions.

This whole forum could simply be moved to Home ->Forum -> Project1 (Rasperry Pi) ->General Discussion etc.

The Foundation is NOT about being a hardware manufacturer. That was the just the first project. BMs need to recognise that the Foundation has goals which are not about the hardware, but making the hardware available was just the first step in their overall objectives.

I really hope that the early adopters do exciting things with the board, because then it will add a stimulus for the kids going through school to learn 'formal' IT and also have 'fun' with some of the crazy ideas that we've all been discussing over the past months.

We've all got different goals! The Foundation wants to promote IT in UK education; I want to use the device for personal projects and also have a cheap enough device to introduce computers to people that could never have envisaged being able to be part of a worldwide information community.

Others are looking to use the board in commercial environments where the current offerings are very expensive in comparison (kiosks; ATMs; Pub Games machines etc....)

Let's not forget, that peole put their houses on the line to get the first project completed and I feel a little ashamed about the way that we have 'ganged up' about being let down and being angered about not knowing what was going to happen.

At the end of the day, Farnell & RS would not have taken the product on board if they were not convinced that it would be commercially advantageous to them. They will simply make revenue from the discounts that they can obtain on sourcing components at much lower ciosts than the Foundation could and they seem to be reasonably fair in the way that they are treating the consumer demand.

Just take a deep breath and accept that you're going to have to wait a good few months more to get one of these boards. When you actually analyse everything, the announcement of 256Mb on the Model A was probably the most important of the day, but it sort of got lost in all the hype.

Just 12 years ago, I was Ops Manager for an Investment Bank and their main system was running on a VAX processor with 128Mb of RAM. The software and OS ran smoothly and over 100 users were accessing the system during the working day. To have this much processing capability on such a small footprint and at such a low entry price is amazing!

riggsre
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:41 pm

Well said. Thank you.

Kernel
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 4:46 pm

erm the project is closed? really? has this been said anywhere officially

with all the problems with distribution and the time it will take for these to get into schools I think there is still a lot of work to be done

Not to mention it has taken years to get to this point - do the people involved really want to spend so much time again on a new project?

What is a BM?

Whilst clones will happen it is a big task as shown in some other topics here which go through everything you need to build the infrastructure (i.e. the need to buy in bulk from Broadcom and have the clout to be able to deal with them directly)

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RaTTuS
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:09 pm

http://www.charity-commission......ryNumber=0

its not closed ^ that is what RPi Foundation is about
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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:12 pm

With not a single Pi distributed I would have thought that considering the project virtually closed, a bit premature.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:48 pm

Don't worry - lots of work to do even on the current hardware.
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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:50 pm

JamesH said:


Don't worry - lots of work to do even on the current hardware.


10,000 jacks for starters!

Skygod
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:21 pm

RaTTuS said:


http://www.charity-commission......ryNumber=0

its not closed ^ that is what RPi Foundation is about



What I mean is that getting the hardware to market is the first project for the Foundation.

The aim of the Foundation according to the link that you provided is this.

THE OBJECT OF THE CHARITY IS TO FURTHER THE ADVANCEMENT OF EDUCATION OF ADULTS AND CHILDREN, PARTICULARLY IN THE FIELD OF COMPUTERS, COMPUTER SCIENCE AND RELATED SUBJECTS.

All I was trying to do is make everyone aware that being a hardware supplier is not the aim of the Foundation.

The development and manufacture of the hardware is simply the first step along the route to meeting it's aims.

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:35 pm

Err. I think that's what's been discussed for the last few months on here.

Skygod
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:39 pm

Kernel said:


erm the project is closed? really? has this been said anywhere officially

with all the problems with distribution and the time it will take for these to get into schools I think there is still a lot of work to be done

Not to mention it has taken years to get to this point - do the people involved really want to spend so much time again on a new project?

What is a BM?

Whilst clones will happen it is a big task as shown in some other topics here which go through everything you need to build the infrastructure (i.e. the need to buy in bulk from Broadcom and have the clout to be able to deal with them directly)



I did not say that the project is closed. I said that when the Model A and Model B are in production then the project could be considered 'closed'. Yes there is still a lot of work to be done, but aside from the issue of 10,000 Ethernet jacks, the responsibility for manufacture is now in the hands of Farnell and RS.

Getting the product into the education system curriculum will be a project in itself. Just having kids owning a RPi will not be enough and government will not just introduce a new IT curriculum based solely on one device from one manufacturer.

A BM is a Board Member (i.e. A member of the forum)

A clone would not necessarily have to use a Broadcom chip as its core, but would need to be able to run the same base OS as the RPi.

Skygod
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:42 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


Err. I think that's what's been discussed for the last few months on here.



That is true, but there seem to be so many new members that are not aware that the Foundation is NOT about being a hardware manufacturer.

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:49 pm

It's just that your OP was a little opaque; as if you were making some Damascene revelation.

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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:09 am

i think everyone knows that the hardware development is not going to end once the a and b are on sale.

the fact that the a board's ram has been doubled in an indicator that as soon as the ram is available at the right price then the b will get an upgrade to 512mb and if they package up 1GB chips and it gets to market at the right price we will  see it on the pi.

any new boards like a model C will be developed completely in secret, as the foundation are not stupid to announce what's coming and then not sell what they have. At some point the BCM2835 will not be available and a new board will have to be designed.

as for clones, I recall the foundation saying the board design will be open and anyone can make a copy if they like, but unless they get a good deal  on the chips they will not be able to compete commercially.

steviewevie
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:56 am

Smartybones said:


any new boards like a model C will be developed completely in secret, as the foundation are not stupid to announce what's coming and then not sell what they have. At some point the BCM2835 will not be available and a new board will have to be designed.



Indeed, though more likely I would think, is the continued "riding of the curve" (Moore's Law) downwards, that Eben has described previously. i.e. at some point in the near future there will be another chip available that is significantly more powerful, but for the same sort of price, as the current SoC.

For now though, we've got plenty to keep us busy with the Model A and B, and trying to ensure that the educational release is a big success (i.e. the community developing lots of cool stuff).

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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:21 am

There is an effect you have to look up. I've tried googling but can't track it down. Basically, back in the 70s a computer was beginning to sell quite well. The MD publicly announced the spec of the computer they were designing to replace it. The spec was so much better it killed demand for the existing model and as funds dried up there was no money left to finance the new computer and the company went bust.

This is a recognised effect in the computer industry and tech industries in general, and is one very good reason why companies are very reluctant to start talking about future models until they are near a launch date.

bbramble
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:28 am

Grumpyoldgit said:


There is an effect you have to look up. I've tried googling but can't track it down. Basically, back in the 70s a computer was beginning to sell quite well. The MD publicly announced the spec of the computer they were designing to replace it. The spec was so much better it killed demand for the existing model and as funds dried up there was no money left to finance the new computer and the company went bust.

This is a recognised effect in the computer industry and tech industries in general, and is one very good reason why companies are very reluctant to start talking about future models until they are near a launch date.



The Osborne 1 and it's successor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O.....rne_effect

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meltwater
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:42 am

You only have to look at apple for that...only a crazy person would buy an ipad 2 a week or two before the next one is launched (unless they get a good price deal).

However...considering the cost to buy the Rpi, and it's probable use in things like industrial controllers (when they are easy to get) etc etc that effect may be less of a problem.

But, as soon as you announce something you just end up with endless bombardment of questions about what it will be, and if you tell them, it is an endless line of moans instead.

Interestingly, everyone still tends to focus on the curve as a way to get more for the same cost...As the foundation has done, turning it around you also get the same for less!

So...they could just produce it for even less money instead of bumping up the spec.

However, everyone wants more power, more features etc so keeping the same price window could mean...improved CPU, more RAM...OR...

It could mean they could include:

VGA out, realtime clock, switchmode psu (reduced power usage), extra USB, onboard LED/switches, wireless connections such as bluetooth/wifi...etc etc.

Mind you, the other side of the coin is that prices could increase for some unexpected reason...which would mean some hard choices...
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Kernel
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:47 am

Grumpyoldgit said:


This is a recognised effect in the computer industry and tech industries in general, and is one very good reason why companies are very reluctant to start talking about future models until they are near a launch date.


Not everyone has learnt though i.e. Nokia announcing a move to Windows Mobile whilst still having lots of Symbian mobiles to sell!!

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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:35 pm

Wasn't that (Nokia) announcement because of the new MD coming from Microsoft?

... hey I've joined Nokia ... now to add the bloatware from where I've come from...???

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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:50 pm

Kernel said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


This is a recognised effect in the computer industry and tech industries in general, and is one very good reason why companies are very reluctant to start talking about future models until they are near a launch date.


Not everyone has learnt though i.e. Nokia announcing a move to Windows Mobile whilst still having lots of Symbian mobiles to sell!!


In my personal opinion, Elop single handedly trashed Nokia sales for the last year and a half with the statement. It was completely insane to say it. Especially sinc it has taken so long (as predicted) to come out with Windows models that are NOT AS GOOD as the current Symbian range.
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Kernel
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:59 pm

Phil Spiegel said:


Wasn't that (Nokia) announcement because of the new MD coming from Microsoft?

... hey I've joined Nokia ... now to add the bloatware from where I've come from...???



He did come from MS but they didn't need to say it.

Seems they said it though because they were worried that by the time the Windows phones did actually come out everyone would have forgotten about them anyway!

curiousengr
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Re: Raspberry Pi Foundation | Raspberry Pi Hardware

Thu Mar 15, 2012 2:31 pm

While I think the Raspi is a great project and definitely something I want, for me it a fun project and maybe I will learn some stuff along the way.

As a hardware project it is just the sort of thing I have been waiting for as I have found it difficult and potentially very expensive to get into SOC based hardware.

As the foundation's aim is the expand the teaching/understanding of Computer whatever software/ hardware how do you see the future expansion possibly add on to the original models or more advanced models for more advanced level students?

(Possibly more expensive the higher degree of learning - not games)

If I just wanted a complete hardware bundle I can buy an Intel motherboard - but where's the fun in that.

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