poing
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:23 pm

Mortimer wrote:If they arrived together in one box, incurring one set of handling and shipping charges to Farnell, then to have a flat P&S charge per Raspberry Pi could be argued as unfair.
They arrived together in one envelope.

Here the cost for 1-9 units between Farnell and RS in Euros including VAT and shipping:

Code: Select all

Qty      Farnell        RS
1          33.47     32.89
2          66.94     57.37
3         100.41     73.43
4         133.87     97.91
5         167.34    122.39
6         200.81    146.87
7         234.28    171.35
8         267.75    195.83
9         301.22    220.30
Edit: Even if I buy nine from Farnell and remove the 21% VAT I get 301.22 / 9 / 121 * 100 = € 27.66 = $37.40 per unit (via xe.com), as there is still about $12 shipping in the amount for each unit. Clearly that's not $25, which was my original point! From RS I get 220.30 / 9 /121 * 100 = €20.23 = $27.33, which is much more like it.
Last edited by poing on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mortimer
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:40 pm

Then I would say that it would seem a little unfair.

Have you contacted Farnell customer support about it? They might surprise us.
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poing
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:47 pm

Good thinking, will do.

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RaTTuS
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:48 pm

In pounds

Code: Select all

ammount       RS      Farnell
1             25.27      22.84
2             38.66      45.67
3             58.00      68.51
4             77.33      91.34
5             96.66     114.18
10           193.32     206.04
50           966.60     961.80
100         1933.20    1916.40
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1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
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pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:54 pm

I was going to say 'interesting..' but the adjective 'anoying...' is more apt.

I guess there is two sets for shipping costs - the shipping to the distributor from the factory in bulk and then the postage and packing from the distributor to the consumer in an envelope.

I'm waiting until the situation is clearer until I order mine - seeing as I live in the UK and they are made in wales, I don't think I should have to pay very much.
Last edited by pygmy_giant on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RaTTuS
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:55 pm

use rs and pickup from local shop option ?
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pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:05 pm

Maybe not a bad option if you live near one:

[url]http://uk.rs-online.com/web/generalDisp ... nchNetwork[/url

Perhaps ring first to make sure they've got one.

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Mortimer
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:26 pm

It might not be as easy as just turning up. I know for instance that the Heathrow counter is 'trade only'. They won't serve members of the public.
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pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:28 pm

Just whistle and put a pencil behind your ear - sinple!

mikerr
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:44 pm

If in the UK, you can get it from farnell's CPC online shop:

http://cpc.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... 5-00001002

No minimum order, and free shipping i.e. you can buy one for £18.88 delivered (€ 23 / $31)
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Mortimer
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:00 pm

pygmy_giant wrote:Just whistle and put a pencil behind your ear - sinple!
Fine until they ask you for your company's name and account number, believe me I tried it.
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itimpi
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:04 pm

mikerr wrote:If in the UK, you can get it from farnell's CPC online shop:

http://cpc.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... 5-00001002

No minimum order, and free shipping i.e. you can buy one for £18.88 delivered (€ 23 / $31)
I do not seem to be able to get that price - I always get a £4.95 handling charge added if I try and order just the Model A and no additional items

pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:53 pm

Thats sooooo pants - the cost for me to post my Pi to you via Royal Mail is £2.20 (within UK). The shipping from the factory in wales to farnel would be too cheap to meter. Surely Farnell should be making their money from the profit margin built into the $25, not by adding on extra fees.

Pah!

Maybe you need to order something else to bring the price over the threshold to avoid the handling 'charge'.

Pah! Pah! and thrice Pah!
Last edited by pygmy_giant on Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mortimer
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:55 pm

Don't forget it is not simply the cost of postage.

There are the packing materials, someone's time to process the order and package the stuff, and then the cost of postage on top of all that.
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pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 3:58 pm

But isn't there a profit margin for the distributors built into the $25 to cover that?

If not, then this is not really a $25 dollar computer as nowhere can you get one off the shelf.

Postage and packaging (and warehousing) is what Farnell do - its there business as a distributor.
Last edited by pygmy_giant on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ravenous
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:02 pm

pygmy_giant wrote: Maybe you need to order something else to bring the price over the threshold to avoid the handling 'charge'.
Yes. Order another one. I can't believe people are buying just ONE of these? :P

pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:03 pm

Pah!

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Mortimer
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:06 pm

The profit margin in products is the incentive for the retailer to carry the product, not to reimburse the retailer for the cost of sending the item to a customer. If that were the case, then international retailers like RS and Farnell, would need a profit margin to cover occasional worst case scenarios of having to send something the other side of the world, and I'm sure you as a potential customer wouldn't like that idea. That is why products are listed exclusive of P&P, which can therefore vary according to how far away you are from their distribution point, and how quickly you want it. And... as I said, P&P isn't simply the cost of a stamp. Someone has to put this stuff in a jiffy bag and stick in the mail bag and then drag it down to the mail depot and their time costs money.
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pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:10 pm

But P&P is exactly what a distributor does. If the Pi is only available through distributors, then it should be advertised to them as a $25 computer, not to the public as one, unless the postage and handling by the distributor is built into the $25.

If walk into a shop and take an item up to the till the shop keeper does not add on a handling charge, and a charge for the electricity to light the shop, and his own income - its built into the price. If that price is an RRP printed on the box by the manufacturer then the costs incurred by the shopkeeper is built into that RRP. It seems to me that by advertising the Pi as a $25 computer the Foundation is effectively printing an RRP on the box, morally if not legally. If I could avoid the shipping and handling charges by picking one off the shelf then this would not be the case, but I dont think I can.

Also, why is there no handling charge if I buy two?

Surely there is more handling involved with two Pis compared to one?

Farnell should use the nearest distribution centre to the customer to smooth out the unpredictability of carriage costs accross customers.

I am not saying that ultimately what the customer gets is not worth what they are paying, I am saying that I am not convinced that what they are told they are paying for is what they are actually paying for.

It seems that if I buy one Pi, I am actually paying for carriage on 3 - mine and those going to the customer who bought 2 and had no handling 'charge'.

If nowhere can you get one off the shelf and at every outlet you have to be pay p&p, then the Pi should be advertised to distributors as a $25 computer, but not to the public as such.

Still good value for money, but not really $25.

Am I wrong?

Can I as a consumer get a single model A in my hand for $25?

If I accept VAT and p&p as a fact of life why should I subsidise carriage to people with larger orders?

Please point out if I have got my facts wrong.

I'll probably buy one anyway as it is cheap and good value for money.

pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:50 pm

It seems to me that is a 'distributor' is going to add on extra charges for 'distributing' , then these 'charges' should be proportional (like VAT) , or at a rate that relates to the actual cost to them, otherwise they are actualy fees and penalties, not charges.

Ravenous
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:58 pm

Note most "distributors", in the business sense of that word, don't sell much to retail. (I know this.) So the price they quote doesn't really include UK VAT as such (the company buying the product from them claims it back and only charges final VAT to their customers.)

And the carriage/handling charges are usually small if you're ordering a lot of stuff. If buying over the counter you'd be paying in some way anyhow.

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Mortimer
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:02 pm

pygmy_giant wrote:It seems to me that is a 'distributor' is going to add on extra charges for 'distributing' , then these 'charges' should be proportional (like VAT) , otherwise they are actualy fees and penalties, not charges.
Why should they be fixed proportional to the cost price? The P&P varies depending on the customer, VAT doesn't except for businesses able to claim it back in certain circumstances.

Yes they are fees. They are the cost to the consumer for the distributor to send it to you, rather than you travel to them to pick it up. And the fee varies as already mentioned depending largely on how far it is going to be sent, and how quickly.

Certainly not penalties, that would be illegal.

Charges are fees and vice versa, surely?
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mikerr
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:06 pm

itimpi wrote:
mikerr wrote:If in the UK, you can get it from farnell's CPC online shop:

http://cpc.farnell.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... 5-00001002

No minimum order, and free shipping i.e. you can buy one for £18.88 delivered (€ 23 / $31)
I do not seem to be able to get that price - I always get a £4.95 handling charge added if I try and order just the Model A and no additional items
Type in WEBFREE in the order comments box (the handling will then not be taken when the order is processed).
http://cpc.farnell.com/jsp/bespoke/besp ... ebfree.jsp
Last edited by mikerr on Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pygmy_giant
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:07 pm

thanks mikerr.

@ Mortimer / Revenous

VAT is unavoidable and the $25 dollars is ex-vat so no quibble there.

But the 'Handling charge' is not really a charge as it is not related to the cos to them - it is more like a penalty or a fee as I am disadvantaged for making a small order.

As for charging for 'handling' is not 'handling' unavoidable in any business unless you are able to levitate objects by the power of your mind?

This seems like an arbitrary mad up ammount designed to encourage me to buy stuff that I do not really need or want.

Is no part of the $25 designed to cover distributors distributing this item that is only available through a distributor? Or is $25 the sale price to the distributor by the manufacturor?

Ravenous
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Re: Model A price point

Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:18 pm

This kind of debate is why the Foundation gave up the original idea to sell raspis directly from the shop :lol:

You can't get delivery for nothing. Unless you're buying lots, in which case they're extra keen for your money. That's why the charge for small orders is there.

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