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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:24 am

HappyPiUser wrote:Since this is the "Pi in the sky" thread...and it's April 1st....

Basic hardware specs for Model C:

Dual ARM Cortex A9 at 1 GHz
Integrated VideoCore® IV embedded processor
1080p 30 fps video encode and decode
3D Graphics: OpenGL® ES 1.1/2.0 support
TeakLite-III® DSP at 400 MHz
Hardware security
Audio codecs
Low-power 40 nm process
1GB RAM (of course)

Based on this SOC:

http://www.broadcom.com/products/Applic ... s/BCM11311

Maybe in a few years!
well, at least this is one of the more reasonable suggestions, although I doubt the RPF will see a need for such a change of SoC soon. But indeed, who knows in a couple of years, when that SoC is as "trailing edge" as this one.
In the meantime they will certainly keep to this SoC, and also use a similarly limited ball grid array out-route scheme for the PCB, which limits the possibilities for change, to perhaps a few problem fixes, and such.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:50 am

Here is my idea for a Model C/D/E...

CPU: 1GHz, 1 Core, 32 Bit
RAM: 1 GB
VRAM: 128MB or 1GB
USB: 2.0 (x2)

Be able to access Firmware chip using the USB Mini. (Turn a switch on.) (Unless there is already a way to access it after a failed firmware flash?)

Give it USB Boot ability. (Or can it already do that?)

Another Idea:
Make it modular. Having removable CPU, RAM and Firmware chip/mini_sd for example. (Upgradable?) (WiFi, Bluetooth and all that can be done with Mini USB devices as always. :3)
The modular idea is a way to make people happy. As long as there is a place to order the parts after getting the Model C/D/E. (If that can be done where people can get the Pi for under $50/$60?)

Thank You for reading this. (Sorry its so long.) Keep up the great work & Have A Great Day! :-D

PS:
Can you guys please start selling the Raspberry Pi's on Amazon? (I want to get the Model B for $35. But all I find is the resold ones for $45-$100. (They say its new. But is it really?))

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:50 am

I guess we naturally drift away from the original vision of an affordable entry into coding for youngsters, and I admit I am not immune since it appeals to me as a prototyping platform. Having said that there is obviously a fine balance between size, features and low cost - so please don't move too far away from the original concept.
Coming to "Amazon" - I suspect the 'resale' items are attempting to capitalise on short supply - and 'of course' Amazon needs a cut of the sales too. Your present supply arrangements seem very fair and equitable so I, for one, would prefer to see the current marketing remain in place.
Thanks for providing such a great device that both I and my grandchildren can enjoy.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:20 pm

StealthLava wrote:Here is my idea for a Model C/D/E...

CPU: 1GHz, 1 Core, 32 Bit
RAM: 1 GB
VRAM: 128MB or 1GB
USB: 2.0 (x2)

Be able to access Firmware chip using the USB Mini. (Turn a switch on.) (Unless there is already a way to access it after a failed firmware flash?)

Give it USB Boot ability. (Or can it already do that?)

Another Idea:
Make it modular. Having removable CPU, RAM and Firmware chip/mini_sd for example. (Upgradable?) (WiFi, Bluetooth and all that can be done with Mini USB devices as always. :3)
The modular idea is a way to make people happy. As long as there is a place to order the parts after getting the Model C/D/E. (If that can be done where people can get the Pi for under $50/$60?)

Thank You for reading this. (Sorry its so long.) Keep up the great work & Have A Great Day! :-D

PS:
Can you guys please start selling the Raspberry Pi's on Amazon? (I want to get the Model B for $35. But all I find is the resold ones for $45-$100. (They say its new. But is it really?))
I think you may be misunderstanding how the 'firmware' works. Its on the SD card - there is no flash on board. So not really possible to have a failed flash - unless you wrote the SD card wrong, in which case you rewrite it.

Also, the memory is shared between the CPU and GPU - there is no specific VRAM. You can split the amount going each way, and with CMA can have it dynamically allocate between the two.

Removable CPU isn't possible in the Arm space - that would require pin compatible devices (and devices with pins!) and they don't exist. RAM is also a problem for similar reasons.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:52 pm

jamesh wrote:
StealthLava wrote:Here is my idea for a Model C/D/E...
Give it USB Boot ability. (Or can it already do that?)
I think you may be misunderstanding how the 'firmware' works. Its on the SD card - there is no flash on board. So not really possible to have a failed flash - unless you wrote the SD card wrong, in which case you rewrite it.
about UBBA of pi 'USB Boot ability'
seems for now only model a
is any possibility on model b in the future ? idk

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:08 pm

duberry wrote:
jamesh wrote:
StealthLava wrote:Here is my idea for a Model C/D/E...
Give it USB Boot ability. (Or can it already do that?)
I think you may be misunderstanding how the 'firmware' works. Its on the SD card - there is no flash on board. So not really possible to have a failed flash - unless you wrote the SD card wrong, in which case you rewrite it.
about UBBA of pi 'USB Boot ability'
seems for now only model a
is any possibility on model b in the future ? idk
No, because having the on-PI hub makes USB booting impossible, the permanent code inside the GPU that makes USB booting possible is so primitive/simple that it doesn't know about hubs.

Also, the only two entities selling PI's are the two manufacturers of them RS and Farnell.
They will only sell them through their regular selling channels (websites), and through sister companies.
All other who sell PI's are actually re-selling them. They buy them from RS or Farnell, then re-sell them.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:51 pm

Hate to say I am considering buying a beaglebone black, don't really have a need for it at the moment but in the next year or two its a definite possible, the BBB release news started me searching for comparisons and for some weird reason brought me to this pi next gen thread?.

Thought I should make a post as I wonder if there will be slight upgrades soon to compete with the BBB, and if you don't ask you don't get.

My wish list of what is necessary to prevent me buying BBB instead of Pi.

* a full and usable 32 GPIO pins available on P1 and P5
* usb client/slave (i.e. plug the pi in as a device for another PC) available through the micro usb power port(also some good drivers available for linux).
* raid micro SD card slots (get rid of the SD slot and have 4 micro SD slots with some controller to handle raid for speed increase and fail handling)
* a cheap($25 max) plugin lcd touchscreen display (640x480 res is probably enough)


>>>> price reduction
* smaller form factor (make the board half the size and the production time and price should also decrease)
* get rid of some of the connectors (single USB port as hubs are cheap, no sound (available through hdmi) or RCA video (hdmi) (but still have pins so people can solder on if necessary))

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:41 pm

mung wrote:Hate to say I am considering buying a beaglebone black, don't really have a need for it at the moment but in the next year or two its a definite possible, the BBB release news started me searching for comparisons and for some weird reason brought me to this pi next gen thread?.

Thought I should make a post as I wonder if there will be slight upgrades soon to compete with the BBB, and if you don't ask you don't get.
So far, at least, there is less there than you might think.

The BBB has a rather different focus than the Pi, though it appears that the Pi may have been the driving force for the existence of the BBB in that choice between a $90 BBWhite and a $35 Pi is rather more stark than between a $45 BBBlack and a $35 Pi.

At present (the first batch of BBBs), the clock frequency is well within reach of a Pi at 800MHz (ignoring relative instruction per clock issues) and if the BBB is powered off a USB port, the spec sheet says the clock is dropped to 600MHz.

The BBB is more oriented towards hardware work, while the Pi is rather more general purpose.

The BBB appears to have much more limited video capability than the Pi, but has more GPIO capability.

I don't think the BBB is the direction the Pi will go, nor do I think it is the direction the Pi should go.

The one idea it would be neat to see the Pi "steal" from the BBB is the rounded corners on the PCB. Then those with advanced noticed can buy stock in whatever company makes Altoids and there will be a vast proliferation of Altoid tin Raspberry Pi cases.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:49 pm

At present (the first batch of BBBs), the clock frequency is well within reach of a Pi at 800MHz (ignoring relative instruction per clock issues) and if the BBB is powered off a USB port, the spec sheet says the clock is dropped to 600MHz.
Saw this misinformation in another thread. Now seeing it repeated here. This information is completely false and the datasheet hosted on Farnell is dated May 2012 (a year old) and refers to an older revision of the ARM SoC.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:45 pm

Working on a penny for your thought basis I enjoy the RPi as it is at the moment but then haven't been pushing it to hard yet.... :twisted:

Personally I'd like to see another mounting hole as two doesn't really make sense :roll: and with three in sensible places mean you can mount it where and how you like. This would add to the education side, "Now class today's assignment is to design a mounting bracket for your RPi". A little more processor power with memory as well but not talking more than 2 cores if even. An RTC would also be nice on the board and not as an add on.

To me the RPi is all about getting your hands dirty and learning about programming computers. The foundation have set themselves what appears an easy task but can be very difficult to manage in providing a low cost hardware platform. I can see how it would be very easy to fall into the trap of over commercializing the product and alienating the core user.

P.S. I've been way from the RPi for a while and hope I haven't missed something big :? :lol: :oops:
Why not jump in at the deep end and see if you can swim.......

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:18 pm

HappyPiUser wrote:Since this is the "Pi in the sky" thread...and it's April 1st....

..
.. well late wisch for the 1 april Thread for my PI Model "TERMINATOR" :
  • Trilions of ARM Cortex A4711 at 1 Trilion TerraHz
    Integrated VideoTerminator Core® IV embedded processor
    1080kp 300000 fps video encode and decode
    6D Graphics: OpenGL® ES 1.1/2.0/100.0 TERMIATOR VID Core Support
    TeakLite-III® DSP at 400 THz
    Hardware NSA security
    Audio codecs
    Low-power 4 nm process
    1PB RAM (of course)

... Greetings .. LOL

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:29 am

OtherCrashOverride wrote:
At present (the first batch of BBBs), the clock frequency is well within reach of a Pi at 800MHz (ignoring relative instruction per clock issues) and if the BBB is powered off a USB port, the spec sheet says the clock is dropped to 600MHz.
Saw this misinformation in another thread. Now seeing it repeated here. This information is completely false and the datasheet hosted on Farnell is dated May 2012 (a year old) and refers to an older revision of the ARM SoC.
Might be worth posting a link to accurate information perhaps, rather than just saying this is wrong?
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:00 am

Might be worth posting a link to accurate information perhaps, rather than just saying this is wrong?
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/am3359.pdf
Up to 1-GHz Sitara™ ARM® Cortex™-A8
REVISED APRIL 2013

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:05 am

OtherCrashOverride wrote:
Might be worth posting a link to accurate information perhaps, rather than just saying this is wrong?
http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/am3359.pdf
Up to 1-GHz Sitara™ ARM® Cortex™-A8
REVISED APRIL 2013
Do we knows specifically what the BBB is running at? The max of 1Ghz? I wonder if it will overclock... It's going to be interesting to see benchmarks of this device (compared to Raspi) - I think the quality of the memory system is going to have a big impact on general performance. I'm also presuming the BBB is a single ARM core device at this point - is that correct?
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:17 am

Its a single core ARM Cortex-A8 running at 1Ghz as advertised.

Edit: As someone pointed out to me regarding this question, it does additionally have 2 RISC cores (PRU) operating at 200mhz in addition to the main arm proc

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sat Apr 27, 2013 3:01 pm

shortyhughes wrote:Personally I'd like to see another mounting hole as two doesn't really make sense :roll:
Makes perfect sense, since they are not mounting holes at all. See e.g. http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewt ... 56#p266056

Gr.
Dirk.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 3:35 am

OtherCrashOverride wrote:
At present (the first batch of BBBs), the clock frequency is well within reach of a Pi at 800MHz (ignoring relative instruction per clock issues) and if the BBB is powered off a USB port, the spec sheet says the clock is dropped to 600MHz.
Saw this misinformation in another thread. Now seeing it repeated here. This information is completely false and the datasheet hosted on Farnell is dated May 2012 (a year old) and refers to an older revision of the ARM SoC.
The initial batch of BBBs has the older processor that has those characteristics. That's why I phrased what I said the way I did. Future batches of the BBB will be faster....when you can get one.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:10 am

The initial batch of BBBs has the older processor that has those characteristics.
All retail boards have the 1Ghz processor.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 4:39 am

OtherCrashOverride wrote:
The initial batch of BBBs has the older processor that has those characteristics.
All retail boards have the 1Ghz processor.
Do you work for TI? I'm wondering where you get all the information from, as I would like to know the capabilities of the chip/board with regards to the media, and also camera capabilities if it has any. Link would be fine.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:10 am

I would like to know the capabilities of the chip/board with regards to the media, and also camera capabilities if it has any. Link would be fine.
I do not work for TI or have any affiliation with CircutCo.

The datasheet pretty much says it all: There is no DSP on it, so media performance is limited to what the CPU + SGX530 can perform.

There is no camera interface / image signal processing interface so cameras use the general purpose memory controller (GPMC) interface.
http://circuitco.com/support/index.php? ... 1MP_Camera

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 5:56 am

I think we are starting to see where the differences lie.The basic bbb is cheap with a faster cpu, but it's certainly well behind in other areas. So you are just getting a better cpu for your money. Makes it easier to see how and why ti priced it how they have.

Not the raspi competitor I originally thought.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:02 am

jamesh wrote:I think we are starting to see where the differences lie.The basic bbb is cheap with a faster cpu, but it's certainly well behind in other areas. So you are just getting a better cpu for your money. Makes it easier to see how and why ti priced it how they have.

Not the raspi competitor I originally thought.
as a media centre its going to suck, i thought we asserted that when we found it can't do 1080p.

for hardware interfacing with electronics its going to be better than a pi+arduino, and don't forget its not just a faster cpu its armv7 which opens it up to a lot more unix distro's including android. given that that's the pi's mission more than being an xbmc box, bbb is a strong competitor.

and the pipedream pi shouldn't be called the model-c, it should be called the Master to be historically accurate.

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:18 am

sej7278 wrote:and the pipedream pi shouldn't be called the model-c, it should be called the Master to be historically accurate.
To be really accurate, it should be the B+, then B+128, and then Master and Master Compact (the half-credit card sized version). I'd get a Compact. It'd bring back good memories :)

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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:30 am

sej7278 wrote:
jamesh wrote:I think we are starting to see where the differences lie.The basic bbb is cheap with a faster cpu, but it's certainly well behind in other areas. So you are just getting a better cpu for your money. Makes it easier to see how and why ti priced it how they have.

Not the raspi competitor I originally thought.
as a media centre its going to suck, i thought we asserted that when we found it can't do 1080p.

for hardware interfacing with electronics its going to be better than a pi+arduino, and don't forget its not just a faster cpu its armv7 which opens it up to a lot more unix distro's including android. given that that's the pi's mission more than being an xbmc box, bbb is a strong competitor.

and the pipedream pi shouldn't be called the model-c, it should be called the Master to be historically accurate.
Given the amount of 'Raspi' killer statements I've seen around, I don't think much has been ascertained at all.

Why is it going to better than Pi+Arduino? Running Linux it's still not going to have the real time capabilities of Arduino. More GPIO I grant you. But I don't use GPIO, yet, so not that bothered. Of course, others will be, but I don't think I am atypical.

Armv7 is irrelevent. We already have a number of distros supported on the Raspi - there is simply not a need for any more (tbh, one would be enough for the role the Raspi aims at in teaching).

Interesting that Android, with a bit of work, would run fine on a Raspi. In fact better than a BBB since it's GPU is faster, and the latest Android really relies on GPU acceleration. Interesting that jellybean running hardware rendering on the VC4 (same GPU as Raspi, different dual core A8 CPU at 1.4Ghz) gets 60fps display update speed, and with SW render about 40. Shows how much better the HW rendering is, and the Raspi has the same performance in that area.

Android's not a priority though, so I guess we cannot say the Raspi runs Android. Should anyone actually want Android on a device like this.
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Re: RaspBerry Pi(e) Model C (imaginations & wants)

Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:14 am

rpdom wrote:
sej7278 wrote:and the pipedream pi shouldn't be called the model-c, it should be called the Master to be historically accurate.
To be really accurate, it should be the B+, then B+128, and then Master and Master Compact (the half-credit card sized version). I'd get a Compact. It'd bring back good memories :)
Then I'd have to get a second-processor. That's an interesting concept, maybe I should buy a parallella and link the two up...
jamesh wrote:Android's not a priority though, so I guess we cannot say the Raspi runs Android. Should anyone actually want Android on a device like this.
I agree, Android is not a good fit for anything that the user programs; it is a consumer experience. Which is an interesting point when all the "raspi-killers" run Android first and foremost, with a side nod to Linux if you are lucky.

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