mgmt_idiot
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:10 am

Benedict White said:


mgmt_idiot said:


Y'know, when I asked for a datasheet, I kind of had in mind the 2-3 pages that you look at when you buy a new printer


Well, you should be careful what you wish for. There will be an exam, the pass rate is 90% for those who asked for a data sheet. You don't want to know what will happen to those who fail! brawHahahahaha.....

Or possibly not.



Brilliant idea!!! Clearly the way to decide who gets a RasPi from the first 10,000 is to have a requirement to answer questions on the data sheet as part of the ordering process built into the shop.

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johnbeetem
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:12 am

Regarding the Broadcom data sheet: thank you thank you thank you thank you ... etc.

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:17 am

Benedict White said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


Benedict White said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


It has been mentioned elsewhere that the Chinese do not like to import or re-import stuff. There was some sort of certificate mentioned. I gather that there are tariffs to discourage it.


Ah yes. Tariffs to discourage trade and innovation. It's nice to know that the EU is not alone. Everyone else is an idiot too!


The difference is that with them it is intentional. With us it is the usual incompetence of governments.


Ah yes. They are intentionally stupid whereas we are incidentally stupid! Now where do the USA and various African countries figure in this stupidity?


The USA has the World Trade Organisation, which has done so much for the poor banana and coffee producers of the world.

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johnbeetem
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:18 am

Benedict White said:

Ah yes.  They are intentionally stupid whereas we are incidentally stupid!  Now where do the USA and various African countries figure in this stupidity? 
I think regarding the USA one only has to take a look at the GOP candidates for president.  And didn't a UK newspaper have a charmingly accurate headline about the USA 2004 presidential election?

Enough politics.  There's a datasheet to devour!

Benedict White
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:21 am

mgmt_idiot said:





Brilliant idea!!! Clearly the way to decide who gets a RasPi from the first 10,000 is to have a requirement to answer questions on the data sheet as part of the ordering process built into the shop.


But only for those who asked for the data sheet surely?

mgmt_idiot
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:22 am

fireraisr said:


I know what it's like having to deal with time tables and supply issues and I for one think the foundation is doing a fantastic job. I totally understand waiting until they had a firm date on board completion to tell us of the problem. Communities hate problems without solutions and the Pi foundation is doing a bang up job of keeping everyone in the loop as to what is going on.


In all seriousness, I second these comments. Doing this sort of thing is never easy and all praise to the foundation for its overall progress, and handling of this issue. Communcations have been brilliant.

Benedict White
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:24 am

Grumpyoldgit said:


The USA has the World Trade Organisation, which has done so much for the poor banana and coffee producers of the world.


Yes. And the IMF and World bank.

That said corruption and crime play a part as well.

The real issue that has not been asked is how many Cadillacs can a starving impoverished African buy? And is that good for the American economy?

Answer? Nil and No!

kme
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:24 am

liz said:.


@kme - you're dangerously close to a ban. Keep it civil, please.


Okay, that's in your power, but I can't see I'm not civil. I'm merely expressing my disappointment with broken or at least misleading promisses. You did yourself claim production start a month ago, didn't you? (http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/509)

Benedict White
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:28 am

kme said:


liz said:.


@kme - you're dangerously close to a ban. Keep it civil, please.


Okay, that's in your power, but I can't see I'm not civil. I'm merely expressing my disappointment with broken or at least misleading promisses. You did yourself claim production start a month ago, didn't you? (http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/509)


If you read carefully it actually amounts to the orders being placed and accepted. What with contracts being contracts etc. lack of supply of a particular part could reasonably hold up production.

In any case there is still no need to be anything other than civil. It's not like they have taken your cash and are waiting for some shipments.

mgmt_idiot
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:32 am

Benedict White said:


mgmt_idiot said:





Brilliant idea!!! Clearly the way to decide who gets a RasPi from the first 10,000 is to have a requirement to answer questions on the data sheet as part of the ordering process built into the shop.


But only for those who asked for the data sheet surely?


Hoist on my own petard

mgmt_idiot
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:34 am

Can we stick to the topic in this thread? I'm sure there's plenty of forums that specialise in politics for those so inclined.

Benedict White
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:37 am

mgmt_idiot said:


Can we stick to the topic in this thread? I'm sure there's plenty of forums that specialise in politics for those so inclined.


Sugar. Been called out for going OT.

Hangs head in shame and begs for forgiveness

Still, the trade tariff stuff is enough to drive anyone bonkers!

Lynbarn
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:40 am

mgmt_idiot said:


Can we stick to the topic in this thread? I'm sure there's plenty of forums that specialise in politics for those so inclined.


Agreed, Religion and politics should be avoided at all costs, although I guess the strength of argument is in some ways a sign of the passion posters here have for the 'Pi, and their eagerness to get hold of one "in the silicon" as it were.

Long may that continue, at least.

And we do now know that nothing will be available at least until the 20th (I'd say allow a week after that at least), so we can all take a bit of time out to relax. zzzzzzz

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:43 am

I think we started talking about Indiana Jones and the Crystal Component, or something like that.

russ wall
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 12:56 am

Was this not what the reason for the first batch was all about anyway. Iron out any “issues” etc? Seems like a well planned strategy is working as far as I can see.

I for one am glad of the so called delay as there are not quite enough sixpences in the piggybank right now. I'm going out to play, get some fresh air and maybe find a few pennies on the floor outside the local Spar if I’m lucky. Could I kindly suggest, kme old chum, that you might try doing the same. After all, when push comes to shove, what’s a couple of weeks?

Disappointment, you say. Bah, you know nothing ... I'm a Wolves fan.

Power to the pi, and all who sail her.

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johnbeetem
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:00 am

kme said:

Which makes it little wonder that no official Linux distro is ready yet. Not even the unofficial official Fedora is official... The distro fellas have no boards to play with.
My understanding is that GNU/Linux distributions have been and are being developed on alpha boards, which have been around since circa August 2011 in highly limited quantities.  I would expect that the software differences between alpha and production boards are pretty minor.

Not much point in releasing an official distro when users can't get boards yet.

Benedict White
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:05 am

russ wall said:



Disappointment, you say. Bah, you know nothing ... I'm a Wolves fan.


ROFLMAO!

John Beetem said:


kme said:


Which makes it little wonder that no official Linux distro is ready yet. Not even the unofficial official Fedora is official... The distro fellas have no boards to play with.


My understanding is that GNU/Linux distributions have been and are being developed on alpha boards, which have been around since circa August 2011 in highly limited quantities.  I would expect that the software differences between alpha and production boards are pretty minor.

Not much point in releasing an official distro when users can't get boards yet.


Well, there is also much work to do as well, including work on the kernel and the blob and communication. It is going on, it isn't as fast as anyone would like, but numbers of people at Broadcom able to provide help is not infinite and neither are boards. That said it is going on, progress is being made and I have to say I think the results will be good.

Won't stop people whinging though...

TheEponymousBob
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 1:42 am

kme said:.


Okay, that"s in your power, but I can"t see I"m not civil. I"m merely expressing my disappointment with broken or at least misleading promisses. You did yourself claim production start a month ago, didn"t you? (http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/509)


In fairness, I don"t think that any promises had been made. They told us when the boards went into production, and that they hoped for a 3-4 week turnaround, but despite a near constant barrage of people looking for a sale date, they quite rightly resisted making any promises.

The grand irony is that the more open and forthcoming the foundation have been regarding the process, the greater the apparent temptation for people to question their decisions. This is not aimed specifically at you, but at the disproportionate reaction to issues such as Chinese manufacturing, "kit" boards, fully open source, and all the other stuff that hardly anyone cares about for 99% of their gadgets, but which are apparently major issues for RPi. Are we to suppose that manufacturing delays never occur for commercial operations, or is it just that they don"t tell you what they"re up to until ready to ship?

shiftyphil
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:07 am

Wait until February 20th, then we'll have all the complaints that it isn't ready for instant teleporter delivery.

fireraisr
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 2:13 am

shiftyphil said:


Wait until February 20th, then we'll have all the complaints that it isn't ready for instant teleporter delivery.


my teleporter fries anything that isn't in a faraday cage due to the phase distortion field. I don't think we'll get instant delivery unless the foundation has managed to work past that bug due to increase in market costs for manufactured cages.

If the foundation has figured out the solution without publishing their findings I must protest. Teleportation is a fundamental right and contributions should be published as such.

atomant
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:01 am

Grumpyoldgit said:


Someone's cruising for a ban!


liz said:


@kme - you're dangerously close to a ban. Keep it civil, please.


These statements are ridiculous.  Those who question the institution will be banned?

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ukscone
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:19 am

atomant said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


Someone's cruising for a ban!


liz said:


@kme - you're dangerously close to a ban. Keep it civil, please.


These statements are ridiculous.  Those who question the institution will be banned?


no it is perfectly ok to question or disagree as long as you do it in a civil manner. those who start to edge towards the line of rudeness get warned and if they cross the line they get banned.

kme was edging dangerously close to the line by saying promises were broken as no promises or time frames have ever been mentioned other than "they hoped..." or "it is expected..." or "have been sent..." so that was his one warning.

we don't do 3 strikes in cricket. if you are out you are out

stormy1
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:23 am

back on topic.

Glad to hear things are back on track!!!!!!

Sourcing components for a production run can be a huge headache!

Thanks for the datasheet while I lack the skills to take advantage of it, it is very interesting reading and takes me back to my microprocessor class in college in 90....

Sheesh has it really been over 20 years ago????? It is a wonder I still remember any of it.

error404
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:25 am

Curious now about future production - is a board and tooling respin going to be required for full-volume production or has a reliable source for this part in quantity been secured?

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Vindicator
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Re: New post on the front page: a date that'll interest you, and a datasheet that will too.

Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:26 am

I don't necessarily agree with KME's approach but understand his frustration, some of us have been here for many many months waiting for this product and now face a 1 in 10 chance of even getting one by march from the first run, and that number is continuing to grow by the day.

3 months ago that would have been (1 in 2) or (1 in 3) chance to get  a device.

I have seen a diminished participation from some of the posters that supported this effort for a long time and now the math is swallowing them up from getting one at all before the companies and business swallow all of the production for the next year or so.

Many of these longer term supporters have had projects on delay during those corresponding months, this is not the foundation fault but the delay's are getting costly in the supporters arena.

So while he may be wrong he is not alone.

IMHO
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