rmwebs
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:30 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:48 pm

ahmedfarazch said:


If you kindly go through the FAQs (which you are often reminded to do so), you shall be able to realize that:

- its a charitable organization, charity as I understand is to serve the needy

- they also plan to launch buy one give one free program ... I think we heard it before somewhere ...

- they are giving these first to enthusiasts to see what (educational) software and tools you come up with ... they'll follow with an educational launch later for kids

Yes anybody is welcome to buy it, I am not stopping anyone! I am just voicing my opinion that this project is a waste of time and effort as its going to cause more fragmentation in a much too fragmented environment of technology in education!


So in a nutshell, you still dont get it, will never get it, and will continue using the blinders? Gotcha.

hyena
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:48 pm

remember the BBC Micro !  .. out of that came ARM and the founders of a shedload of games developers  ...

I was at school at this time and the govt then had a coherent systematic plan and backed this up with kit and teacher training for schools, media (BBC) but most importantly of all the teachers were really in to it (in fact they brought their own kit from home in to the school - the first time i saw a commodore PET)  .. and teachers being in to it makes a big difference

Sadly we have had >15 years of couldnt care less teaching with a teaching program designed for "ease" of teaching by non competant teachers rather than educating and interesting kids like it did 15 years earlier ...

In a nutshell thats what the foundation is trying to change (and note the current government has recognised the poor standard and content of teaching IT and has commited to drastically improve it)

and i say good on them

bbramble
Posts: 60
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Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:51 pm

OK, have to step in here, although you are entitled to your own opinion, you are so wrong here it is unbelievable.

Firstly, just to set a bit of background, I am one of the 80's home computer generation who learnt about computers without *any* school support or formal education. Starting with a ZX81 (that's 1 whole kilobyte of RAM people, shared with video memory), I have worked in IT all my life and currently run a data centre. I program in a variety of languages, depending on the task required.

The R-Pi is not fragmenting anything. Current UK IT education is nothing more than "teach the kids to use Word and Excel". I know. My daughter is currently doing it.

Getting a cheap, general purpose but not part of the closed "IT is using a word processor" mind-set will be a god-send. Many people (including you) won't get it. Many people didn't get the 80s home computer explosion ("how do I get it to play space invaders"). Those who do will be hugely enriched by this, and it *will* create a new generation of talented IT professionals (who I will have to compete with, damn!).

Eben and the foundation are to be congratulated. I take both my professional and personal hats off to you guys.

RedVirgil
Posts: 1
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Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:51 pm

ahmedfarazch said:


If you kindly go through the FAQs (which you are often reminded to do so), you shall be able to realize that:

- its a charitable organization, charity as I understand is to serve the needy

- they also plan to launch buy one give one free program ... I think we heard it before somewhere ...

- they are giving these first to enthusiasts to see what (educational) software and tools you come up with ... they'll follow with an educational launch later for kids

Yes anybody is welcome to buy it, I am not stopping anyone! I am just voicing my opinion that this project is a waste of time and effort as its going to cause more fragmentation in a much too fragmented environment of technology in education!


It could just be that I am showing my ignorance (only being a secondary school teacher an all) but I am a bit perplexed by your assertion that "its going to cause more fragmentation in a much too fragmented environment of technology in education!".  What exactly do you mean?  We have a very limited budget and these are going to provide a fantastic and affordable addition to the tools we have available to use with the kids.

hyena
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:00 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/educ.....n-16157519

The teaching of information and
communications technology (ICT) is inadequate in a fifth of secondary schools in
England, Ofsted says.

Inspectors said teachers lacked the expertise and confidence to teach more
demanding topics properly.

The report said areas such as databases and programming were poorly taught,
with some pupils making more progress outside lessons than in them.

Schools Minister Nick Gibb said ICT teaching was "far too patchy".

Of the 74 secondary schools visited between 2008 and 2011, achievement was
good or outstanding in just 27 of the schools, satisfactory in 33 and inadequate
in 14.

In 30 of the schools, nearly half of students reached the age of 16 without
adequate foundation for further study or training in ICT and related subjects.

Ofsted said in some secondary schools, pupils were being spoon-fed small
pieces of learning and there were no opportunities to develop an understanding
of programming.

Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote


Young people need to be given the opportunity to learn ICT
skills in an interesting, challenging and relevant way”


End Quote Miriam Rosen
Chief inspector
The report also noted that the numbers of pupils taking
ICT at GCSE ICT had plummeted since 2007.

In 2011, 31,800 students sat the examination, compared with 81,100 in 2007 -
a reduction of 64%.

However, in England's primary schools the picture was more positive, with
teaching judged to be good or outstanding in nearly two-thirds of schools.

Of the 88 primary schools visited, achievement was judged to be outstanding
in 11, good in 39, satisfactory in 33 and inadequate in just five.

In the summer, Google chairman Eric Schmidt said education in Britain was
holding back the country's chances of success in the digital media economy.

Dr Schmidt said the UK needed to reignite children's passion for science,
engineering and maths.

E-safety

Ofsted inspectors also highlighted concerns about children's safety while
using the internet.

The report said: "While e-safety had been promoted effectively in all the
schools visited as part of the survey, several of them had reported incidents of
attempts to contact pupils inappropriately.

"In discussions with inspectors, the issue of underage use of social
networking sites arose frequently, underlining the importance of schools
continuing to maintain e-safety as a priority for staff training and
awareness-raising with parents."

Chief inspector Miriam Rosen said: "In a world that is becoming increasingly
reliant on technology, young people need to be given the opportunity to learn
ICT skills in an interesting, challenging and relevant way.

"Schools should provide a range of ICT courses that are suitably matched to
students' needs, support them with their learning and prepare them for higher
education and for skilled work in a technological age."

'Patchy'

Mr Gibb said too many young people were not being equipped with the skills
and knowledge they needed for further study and the workplace.

He said: "It's clear that ICT teaching is far too patchy - with outstanding
work in some areas but real weaknesses in the quality of courses, curriculum and
teacher training in others.

"We want to move away from the over-focus on buying computer hardware, which
dates rapidly, and towards teaching pupils to be technologically literate and
quick to adapt.

"We are looking very carefully at ICT as part of the national curriculum
review and have listened closely to the computing industry's calls for more
rigorous computer science courses to help tackle the skills shortages facing
high-tech industries."


patmage
Posts: 3
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Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:14 pm

If one of your goals is a media box it should be stated that neither 2a or 2b are suitable for hd content playback. To do playback in software requires something like a Intel core duo. The reason the pi can do it is because of hardware decoding.

As VAAPI and VDPAU see more support in linux you will be able to have more options on hardware decoding, but don't underestimate the power required to do 1080p h264 content.  You can always find a GeForce 9800 to do it, but even that is going to cost more than a pi by itself.

aperry
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:28 pm

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this whole thread was flamebait. Either that or the OP is just incredibly incoherent.

Post 1: Simple question regarding XBMC hardware requirements (including a weird jab at Raspi in the very first post).

Post 11:  Completely unexplained conclusion that some old and more expensive hardware is a better option, despite the video evidence of XBMC running on raspi.  A comment about running a VM instead (for an HTPC??).  Then another bizarre  jab about raspi being for kids who are more interested in running software (??).

Then a thread spiraling out of control about whether the foundations goals are appropriate. Whatever, I'm not buying it.  I think the OP is just looking for some trouble.

hyena
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 7:55 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:32 pm

the  £100-120 (if you wait for the periodic deals) quid ebuyer acer revue/emachines etc dual core atom ion 2 chipset nettops should do xmbc @ 1080p with the proper drivers and setup  .. though it will do it its reaching its limit   ...

rmwebs
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:30 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:49 pm

hyena said:


the  £100-120 (if you wait for the periodic deals) quid ebuyer acer revue/emachines etc dual core atom ion 2 chipset nettops should do xmbc @ 1080p with the proper drivers and setup  .. though it will do it its reaching its limit   ...


Not sure if this is anything to go buy as I've no idea of its graphics specs, but I've got a 1st gen intel mac mini running a 1.6ghz core solo and that does 1080p playback fine. I'd guess that anything pre-'Core' brand (e.g Pentium 4 or Centrino) would have issues though.

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liz
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Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:50 pm

aperry said:


I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that this whole thread was flamebait. Either that or the OP is just incredibly incoherent.

Post 1: Simple question regarding XBMC hardware requirements (including a weird jab at Raspi in the very first post).

Post 11:  Completely unexplained conclusion that some old and more expensive hardware is a better option, despite the video evidence of XBMC running on raspi.  A comment about running a VM instead (for an HTPC??).  Then another bizarre  jab about raspi being for kids who are more interested in running software (??).

Then a thread spiraling out of control about whether the foundations goals are appropriate. Whatever, I'm not buying it.  I think the OP is just looking for some trouble.


I'm in total agreement - the OP is flagged and I'm watching for anything else that looks like trolling, and I'm closing this thread.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

ahmedfarazch
Posts: 5
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Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:36 pm

So, what you guys are saying is:

1. The problem is that: "young people need to be given the opportunity to learn
ICT skills in an interesting, challenging and relevant way"

2. The solution being offered is to introduce a 'new' device that essentially is a more compact and portable version of the PC already there ... it just costs $25 ... oh wait ... there is model B as well $35 with no way of making model A into B should you decide you want some more memory or wanna have web connectivity ... okay lets give kids model A first ... so how do you program it ... oh you need to buy storage, you need to buy a hub, you need a power source, you probably need to keep the PC as well, you can make a nice case yourself though ... so with all that you can write some programs and run them on it ... what about real world interaction/sensor inputs ... oh thats geeky stuff ... you'll have to solder the header yourself ... then you'll have to buy the sensors as well

And all of a sudden, teachers would develop great teaching skills overnight, the students would instead of watching hd shows, playing games or listening to mp3s on their RasPis would suddenly start yearning for programming skills ... oh how wonderful it would be ... truly magical

oh wait if the foundation gets more money, there'll be Pi2 most probably ... same old upgrade path ...

So, 1 additional shiny new toy ... kids hold interest for a week or two ... then what? another new toy?

@patmage: An AMD X2 is good enough for software decoding though the Integrated graphics for 2a handles HD beautifully! I think you need to also look into Ion and Fusion nettops! I originally asked for opinion but realized that RasPi is not aimed at me, its aimed at kids though I think its wrong there as well!

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liz
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Re: Raspberry Pi $35 vs a $35 x86 Regular PC

Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:48 pm

Apols, folks - it appears I failed to hit the lock button. It's properly locked now, and @ahmedfarazch: I believe you are flame baiting, so you've been banned.
Director of Communications, Raspberry Pi

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