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abishur
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Re: What have we missed?

Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:58 pm

Quote from EWH on August 31, 2011, 04:29
We need a price on a package that actually gives all the minimum items needed for a working system. I've tried to find the cheapest credible new prices to make an estimate. (UK prices will likely be at least 30% higher, plus VAT - I cynically figure it'll be about the same number in pounds as it is in dollars.)
Power supply ($5-$10)
SD card with preloaded OS (8GB, $7 + $1 for loading = $8)
USB Hub ($2, quality may be low, but includes USB cable. Real price may be $5-$10)
Keyboard ($9)
Mouse ($5)
HDMI cable ($4)
Component video cable ($1)
Plastic custom-molded enclosure ($3)

So that's roughly $38-$53 extra with a quick-start manual and a bit of packaging for the absolute cheapest and bare minimum real cost to have a functioning computer, assuming there's an unused TV or monitor available. This should be the default package, but there should be an ability to remove unneeded items - a few will not need the keyboard or the mouse and so forth.

If a TV is needed it would add another $100. Many people might be able to scare up an old CRT locally for less, but they are likely to be hard to move and to take up an inconvenient amount of room.

For internet, most will need at least:
{Ethernet cables ($2), Ethernet hub ($8)}
or
{Wi-Fi hub ($30), USB wifi adapter ($10), ethernet cables ($2)}
(modem and service not included)

And most people will also need a power strip ($5)

So for a really inclusive package, that's as much as $229, including the Raspberry Pi. (It would be at least 50% more, perhaps even double if these were bought piecemeal with associated shipping charges or local shop markups rather than as a single package from the foundation, taking advantage of their bulk buying power.) Plus shipping and packaging of course, so that will be about another $15, and another few dollars for miscellaneous expenses will be needed to actually break even - of course those living in remote places or wanting faster shipping will pay a bit more.
Total should be about $225 for the TV-included model, or $125 without the TV, but still including the ethernet or a wifi adapter. (+$30 for either package with a wifi bridge).



I hear what you're saying, but I fear you've got a nasty bit of exaggeration going on with these numbers ;) Let's take a look at the list you've provided (which is a very nice and comprehensive list indeed!)

1) Power supply $0 the voltage range of the r-pi is 6-20V DC you're able to use the old NES power plug you found in a box of your dad's stuff (strangely marked with your mom's handwritting "hide it or throw it away" with the year your parents got married) tucked away in the attic

2) SD card $0. You/your parents threw away the last 4 SD cards that came with their Camera, MP3 player, Phone, or i(Apple product), but you manage to find a spare one anyway. It's not 8 GB but you understand the purpose is to be lightweight, not a desktop replacement so it's a big enough size. You additionally don't feel like being lazy and use the torrent on the website to download the OS image (if it's anything like a cell phone this will literally be a file with a .img extension.)

USB Hub $0 why would you need a hub? You bought the $35 model that comes with 2 usb ports because you knew $10 would be cheaper than buying a USB hub and Ethernet adapter.

Keyboard ($9) You pay $9 bucks, but that's only because you decided to buy a keyboard with an extra USB port in it (otherwise they're more in the 3 dollar range)

Mouse ($5) I would actually argue that most people have some spare mice or keyboard lying around, but I think that these are the most likely to items that will need to be purchased so let's leave them in for the sake of argument.

HDMI cable ($4) I agree with this. HDMI is new enough where people don't tend to keep spares lying around yet and manufacturers are too greedy to include them (shoot, most manufacturers don't even include a lousy s-video cable!)

Component video cable $0 Assuming you didn't have one lying around (something I find extremely unlikely) and you weren't allowed to borrow the cable from the VCR player anytime you wanted to use the TV, why would you need both an HDMI cable and a component cable?

Plastic custom-molded enclosure ($3) Sure, why not? While a hobbyist wouldn't technically need this, I think it's a reasonable thing to include for argument's sake ;)

So you're actually looking more at an extra $25 dollars, which is still almost doubling the price. I would argue that most of us hobbyists wouldn't need any of this stuff (we'd need other expensive items unique to our mad science projects :P ) but let's continue.

TV $0. Sorry but I disagree with you strenuously on this issue. The whole point of the r-pi is to use an existing TV. If someone is too poor to be able to have a TV in the house, they're not going to go out and buy an r-pi :(

{Ethernet cables ($2), Ethernet hub ($8)}
or
{Wi-Fi hub ($30), USB wifi adapter ($10), ethernet cables ($2)}
(modem and service not included)

Wait what? I can understand someone needing to buy an ethernet cable or a WiFi adapter but the rest of the items are kind of silly (no offense). Why would you purchase a wifi adapter and then turn around in purchase an ethenet cable as well?These are items that would be true for any computer purchase. It doesn't make sense to add them here as if it's unique only to the r-pi. And what with the note of modem and service not included? Did Dell include a modem and service when you purchase your last item from them (If so I have GOT to get your contacts!) :P

I'm not trying to be rude, it just doesn't make sense to include some of the items as they would be universally true or false for any purchase... it would be like enumerating the cost of electricity for running it, and the cost of rent or a mortgage for having a place to use it in.

So let's say an additional 2-12 for the r-pi in terms of network connectivity.

And most people will also need a power strip ($5) sure, fair enough.

So I think that a reasonable low number would be $33. That would be the cost just to get it up and running assuming a reasonable amount of on hand parts and a reasonable amount of parts you might need to purchase. A higher end would be $47 additional dollars, but that's if you want to go fancy and be wireless.

That said, I feel that your list is a fair representation for a child (teenager) who had absolutely nothing saw the $25 price tag and then just went nuts getting peripherals for it (which sadly I fear many might just do) and reduced it to their personal family box replica, never daring to do anything great with it, just using it for games, e-mail, and internet :(

Whereas the list I'm putting forward is more representational of the child who wants to get into computers and is willing to make the "computer bling" sacrifices to get it (uses family TV set, existing network conditions, etc).

Together the two lists probably make a very accurate high and low cost range. I'd like to think most people will be more towards my end of the price spectrum... but I'm kinda biased ;)
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:41 am

I agree with you abishur. And still believe that a western world teen or pre-teen will have no problem digging up the minimal needed equipment to put a RasPi to use. The only thing you forgot was stealing the composite cable from the Wii.

A third world teen may have a little more trouble, but in general they are more resourceful then western teens. They have to be.
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:45 am

There are also plenty of sites where people give this stuff away such as gumtree (for your city) and freecycle.

As to ebay, I bought a 15" TFT monitor for £10 earlier this year, and it wasn't unusual on the listings, so I think most will be able to get what they need.

The other thing to consider is that one of the ideas of the R-Pi is to allow people to tinker with the guts of the system without retribution if something goes wrong - something you would get if you mess around on the 'family PC'. The R-Pi is a safe area/sandbox to mess around without fear if something goes wrong. Therefore, you could use all the equipment that is currently attached to your family PC already.

A last little thing - since when did a USB hub cost as much as $10 these days?! I just bought a 4 port one from ebay for £1.67 including postage....

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:45 am

All I want is pins for the LDVS whatjamacallit.

abishur - just backup your SD card...
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 11:40 am

I'd somehow managed to miss this thread. We are trying a few things to bring the cost of peripherals down - we're sourcing some at the moment (we've just got what looks like a very good deal on mouses, and SD cards are in the works, but I'm not going to confirm it until we've got our hands on a few test units - the keyboards I was looking at last week ended up being a no-go because they were downright horrible to use, so we're still trying there) to sell alongside the board on the website at prices much lower than you can find in the shops. (Low price = ball mouses, I'm afraid.) Initially, this won't be much use for overseas customers because of shipping, but once we start using more distributors, we can get better coverage.

We're also looking at using the charity to start a drive to collect people's old and unused keyboards and mouses to donate and send to schools which can't afford them, and to the developing world. Power supplies and display units are going to be a bit more tricky because of electrical health and safety requirements, which differ from country to country, but we're looking into it.

I'm hoping we'll be ready to sell the peripherals at the same time the boards start selling, but the donations scheme won't get going until next year at least; we've got quite a lot on our hands at the moment!
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:29 pm

It's a bit short on RAM. This means programmers spending a lot of time doing tedious optimisations for diminishing returns instead of just having fun making programs. A couple of bucks thrown at doubling the RAM would make a lot of difference.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:40 pm

1. Doubling the RAM will cost a "bit" more than a couple of bucks, I wouldn't be surprised if it would double the price of a R-Pi

2. No "tedious optimisation" is needed to have fun making programs for the R-Pi. I wouldn't compare it to the C64 (64Kb) or even a ZX81 (1Kb) for those comparisons are (in my opinion) too old. Compare it with my first Android Phone (a HTC-G1) it had 192Mb of Ram and ran Android smoothly. A lot of (fun) programs were and are written for Android and ran without trouble on the HTC-G1.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:39 pm

I think that as the R-Pi is already going to cost more than double its original outlay just to hook it up with a keyboard and mouse, an extra 256MB of RAM (about $5 on top of the cost) isn't really going to hurt the "Model B" version's chances of success. I agree the Model A needs leaving well alone.

Tedious optimisation is not necessarily related to coding. Making real games usually involves lots of art and sound assets and often it's here where the pain of optimisation usually gets you. Our latest game (Revenge of the Titans) has 240MB of art and sound assets that ideally are stashed in RAM. Having to load/unload stuff makes for crappy "Loading..." delays throughout a game, and doesn't half increase the complexity of the code, and we could do without that. Especially as the price of mostly solving the issues is $5 worth of RAM - the price of a game or two on a fancypants phone.

Cas :)

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:16 pm

Adding another 256MB doesn't "only" cost $5, this isn't a common desktop system. Even just adding components and needing to have more "board estate" costs money, it isn't just a matter of "add more ram and be done with it", it's not that simple.

Besides 256MB is waaay more than enough for the target "market", i'm already building my own debian based distro to put into them as soon as i get the boards and even with a complete desktop i'm not even using half the ram.

Sure, your game can be using 240MB for gaming assets and you want to load them into RAM to speed up the loading process but remeber, this is supposed to be a teaching aid and thus loading times are waaaaay on bottom in the list.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:39 pm

Quote from princec on September 2, 2011, 14:39
I think that as the R-Pi is already going to cost more than double its original outlay just to hook it up with a keyboard and mouse, an extra 256MB of RAM (about $5 on top of the cost) isn't really going to hurt the "Model B" version's chances of success. I agree the Model A needs leaving well alone.

Tedious optimisation is not necessarily related to coding. Making real games usually involves lots of art and sound assets and often it's here where the pain of optimisation usually gets you. Our latest game (Revenge of the Titans) has 240MB of art and sound assets that ideally are stashed in RAM. Having to load/unload stuff makes for crappy "Loading..." delays throughout a game, and doesn't half increase the complexity of the code, and we could do without that. Especially as the price of mostly solving the issues is $5 worth of RAM - the price of a game or two on a fancypants phone.

Cas :)

Let me get this straight; so you don't have to write efficient code, you want *every* user of the game to pay $5 more for memory? I don't know how many copies you sell or for what prices, but let's say 10k copies, that $50k of extra memory. Lefts say 6months development.

Lack of optimisation is why Windows runs like a dog (sometimes) on 3GHZ, 4GB systems. It's a skill that is sadly lacking in most programmer nowadays, but will become more important as more stuff goes mobile. Less memory and less power available means more optimisations required.

Anyway, to the original point. There are few if any PoP packages of 512MB, 256 is the currently *available to raspberypi* maximum. So the 256 is not a cost limitation, its an availability limitation.
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:55 pm

Quote from jamesh on September 2, 2011, 15:39
Let me get this straight; so you don't have to write efficient code, you want *every* user of the game to pay $5 more for memory? I don't know how many copies you sell or for what prices, but let's say 10k copies, that $50k of extra memory. Lefts say 6months development.

That is exactly what I'm saying. The code is already rather efficient as it is; it's just not massively complex and doesn't burden the user with immersion-destroying loading screens apart from at boot time.

You are also making the assumption that I'd be the only developer for the platform. Imagine there were 10,000 developers now. Or approximately 5,000 years of wasted man-years (by your reasoning) spent optimising code which could have just "run" if it had another $5 of memory. I don't think it's a watertight answer by any means and RAM is no substitute for trimming things to fit properly, but we've gotten used to 32-bit RGBA textures and managed runtimes. It'd be a shame to have to go back 15 years and start coding in C again and crappy RGB4444 compressed textures. Or worse, palleted. Not just a shame but likely just to put a lot of people off bothering. There is a reason half the world's programmers moved toward using Java, C# and Javascript.

If this device is about helping people to tinker, then how about some concessions to making it a little easier to tinker. 256MB of RAM makes it hard to do a lot of fun things that we take for granted on cheapass desktops. Let's not forget again the cost of actually making one of these devices into a standalone computer: mouse, keyboard, monitor, hdmi cable, power strip - by which time you're seriously in netbook and cheap laptop territory already and looking decidedly poor value compared to low-end Android tablets. So another $5 (or hell $10) on the price isn't going to make a blind bit of difference in the Model B as to whether it succeeds or not.

Why the religious adherence to the crazy low pricepoint for the posh version anyway? It seems like a psychological factor rather than any real value proposition.

Cas :)

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:00 pm

Just to put that in perspective: whack open Chrome and look at one ordinary page in it (like for example, this one, or news.bbc.co.uk) - look how much actual phsycial RAM it needs just to do that - not counting the OS's take. The whole world has moved on to an expectation of a certain amount of RAM just to be able to look at the basic infrastructure of the net. If this device isn't even going to be able to render most ordinary web pages without barfing it's going to feel pretty lame. Just food for thought.

Cas :)

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:14 pm

The idea is to *re-use* already owned hardware not to go and buy expensive peripherals to use a $25 "computer". Think of

1) Rural/underdeveloped areas, stick the raspi into a TV and use second hand/charity given peripherals. Seriously, this is 2011 ... i can even get a cheap arse *wireless" keyboard+mouse combo for 15€ around the corner.

2) Get a raspi to your students so that you can tinker all they want without worrying that they might ruin the school/their own computer. You'll re-use the peripherals you already own.

You don't need to buy a power brick, just use a suitable charger that you probably already have at home, i have 3 on my desk right now alone ( from my phone, dev board and switch ).

Again i don't know how 256MB isn't enough to "256MB of RAM makes it hard to do a lot of fun things that we take for granted on cheapass desktops.". Not long ago we were ALL running our computers with 256mb or less, never stop having fun because of it, i'm even running right now a full fledged Linux environment and i'm only using 70MB of RAM ...! this is supposed to be a teaching aid not the next gen mobile platform, i don't think any teacher will be using a raspi to teach his students how to write the next iteration of Half-Life.

I believe most people are completely missing the point of the raspi, as i see it you might want to look at a Panda/Beagleboard, it should suit your needs much better :)

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:18 pm

I'd take issue with your assertion that peripherals are going to raise the price to netbook levels. This is a straw man we've seen many times on comments threads, which we've been able to successfully refute: we expect a keyboard + mouse to cost well under $10 (we'll be selling them here), and if you've read the spec, you'll see that the Raspberry Pi's display device is expected to be the family television, not a dedicated (expensive) monitor. Next year, we'll be setting up donations of second-hand peripherals.

I'd also suggest that perhaps you've misinterpreted the charity's goal. We're not trying to enable the masses to play your game. We're trying to democratise computing, and make it accessible to people both at home and in the developing world who currently can't afford to have a computer; we're also trying to encourage kids to do some (efficient) coding. Have a look at the video a few posts down on the homepage where Eben explains what we're doing if you have the time. We'd love you to buy a Raspberry Pi, and we'd be pleased if you use it, but it's not actually designed with you in mind.

This being the case, the low price is paramount. Every square millimetre we add to the board adds cost. The RAM you want isn't actually available to us at the moment anyway. This isn't religious, crazy or psychologically driven. We want people to be able to access these things in large numbers in places where $5 is what you get to spend on food for a week. A later phase for us will be raising money to send the "posh" boards out to developing communities for free. I'm sure you can do the maths.

Adding a smiley to posts which I suspect you realise are pretty darn rude does not make them charming. Just food for thought.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:40 pm

well said liz.

while it's nice that you are going to let hobbists get their hands on the R-Pi and hopefully contribute back it isn't your real goal other than to make sure you have all your ducks in a row and can do a larger run of boards and get them into kids hands, preferably in schools but also in the home.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:50 pm

Well said Liz!
Most of us on the board at this time are "tinkerers". We are not the target market. I benefit from the RasPi in that I now have found a compact, inexpensive (not cheap ass) computing core. The closest to this is a beagle board. I am more than willing to experiment as I will not go broke if I destroy a couple. Destroy one beagle board and my wife will give me that little look that says "stupid". The RasPi has plenty of power and potential just the way it is. Would I like to see more memory yes, but only because I am lazy.
If this board was full of questions from teens rather than tinkerers the foundation would be off the mark. Well I do not see a whole lot of teens here wanting to learn programming or wanting to experiment.
I still think we need to add age to the profile, then put up an average age of user count somewhere. Might be very informative around the time these start making it into the hands of your target audience!
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:00 pm

I don't expect kids to want to learn to program or to want to experiment on the machine at the moment. If you've not been exposed to something similar (like lots of us aged people were), it requires an enormous leap of imagination to get to what you could do with something like Raspberry Pi. I'm hoping that exposure to the device once it's released will enthuse *some* kids (I'm not daft enough to think that everybody will find it interesting); that'd be enough.

I know we do have a some teenagers here, and I've spoken to some on Twitter as well. The Introduce Yourself thread makes for some interesting reading. Right now, I'd be much more interested to see teachers on the forums, and sadly I think we have so few I could count them on the fingers of one hand.
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:06 pm

Quote from liz on September 2, 2011, 17:00
I know we do have a some teenagers here, and I've spoken to some on Twitter as well. The Introduce Yourself thread makes for some interesting reading. Right now, I'd be much more interested to see teachers on the forums, and sadly I think we have so few I could count them on the fingers of one hand.


I'd settle for having some old hands at this stuff that are willing to help establish some curriculum for the project so that the educators will see it happening and be something USEFUL to them. It's still all so raw that I'd almost bet good money that they're waiting and seeing instead of checking in- they're interested, but it's not like people haven't tried/promised something a bit like this in the past and they've been burnt.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 6:58 pm

Hey Liz, I'm not being rude just by asking for a little more RAM. I'm a pragmatic programmer, I've been at it for over 30 years, and a very large proportion of that time has been spent doing tedious cost-cutting and feature-trimming and optimisation which has cost me (and every single other programmer under the sun) a lot of time more usefully spent elsewhere. My discussion is just this: if you want to get people into tinkering with programming, having to worry about cramming things into tiny spaces is not much fun, and nor is low-level programming, for most of us. It's been a necessary evil until about 2001/2 when things in the desktop world took off to the point that it's genuinely easy for anyone to code pretty much anything, and largely this has been the result of cheap RAM.

I fully appreciate that every square mm on the board costs more but back in July one of your representatives did state quite clearly it'd cost about $5 to do this and I'm saying that this would be one of the most cost/beneficial improvements to the device - from a programmer's perspective. It opens up the door to fast managed runtimes, which in turn opens up the door to languages that beginners can easily get to grips with that aren't hobbled by the lowly processing power of the device.

That said - I hadn't actually realised your target was sub-Saharan Africa, I was coming at this from the angle of the lost generations of kids who don't have a C64 or Spectrum to learn the ropes on here in Blighty. It's not surprising that hardly any kids are learning to code these days.

Cas :)

ps. Sorry about the smiley sig, I've used that for the last 20 years on every post I've ever made on the internet and not about to stop now. If I realised my posts were rude or offensive I'd change them but clearly I don't.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:51 pm

I still don't see how only having 256mb limits anything, i'm sure the raspi will be used to mostly teach entry to mid-level programming and as such i don't see any problem even using interpreted languages to achieve that.
You can even use Vala or Genie ( just an example ) nowadays and have a fast environment, practically as fast as pure C, without exposing you students to scary concepts as managing their own references.

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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 8:52 pm

Quote from princec on September 2, 2011, 19:58
Hey Liz, I'm not being rude just by asking for a little more RAM. I'm a pragmatic programmer, I've been at it for over 30 years, and a very large proportion of that time has been spent doing tedious cost-cutting and feature-trimming and optimisation which has cost me (and every single other programmer under the sun) a lot of time more usefully spent elsewhere. My discussion is just this: if you want to get people into tinkering with programming, having to worry about cramming things into tiny spaces is not much fun, and nor is low-level programming, for most of us. It's been a necessary evil until about 2001/2 when things in the desktop world took off to the point that it's genuinely easy for anyone to code pretty much anything, and largely this has been the result of cheap RAM.

I fully appreciate that every square mm on the board costs more but back in July one of your representatives did state quite clearly it'd cost about $5 to do this and I'm saying that this would be one of the most cost/beneficial improvements to the device - from a programmer's perspective. It opens up the door to fast managed runtimes, which in turn opens up the door to languages that beginners can easily get to grips with that aren't hobbled by the lowly processing power of the device.

That said - I hadn't actually realised your target was sub-Saharan Africa, I was coming at this from the angle of the lost generations of kids who don't have a C64 or Spectrum to learn the ropes on here in Blighty. It's not surprising that hardly any kids are learning to code these days.

Cas :)

ps. Sorry about the smiley sig, I've used that for the last 20 years on every post I've ever made on the internet and not about to stop now. If I realised my posts were rude or offensive I'd change them but clearly I don't.


You must have missed the end of my post - PoP packages are not available above 256 at the moment. Going to DDR socketed RAM be too expensive.

As for code optimisation - still worth doing it (and I've been doing it for 30 years as well). If you see some of the dreadfully inefficient code I sometimes have to look at (not done by Broadcom, Cambs I hasten to add) that could be dramatically improved by the addition of common sense and a relatively low level of skill, you begin to see WHY Chrome takes umpteen megabytes just to render a web page. It's a waste of processor time, of memory and world resources (If all computer code was 10% more efficientit would use less power, not 10% less but less nevertheless). Making people work with slower processor and less memory means they write better code.

I'm not saying that general purpose code needs to be optimised to the nth degree, it just has to be efficient, and a lot of it isn't. It is in fact crap. Interestingly, the GPU code on the Raspi's GPU has been heavily optimised. That's one of the reason why the GPU has the lowest power requirement per performance of any other mobile GPU. And this is seen in the real world with the excellent battery life seen on phones that use it.
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:19 pm

That's a shame about the chips you can get hold of - though I've got a Tegra board right here in front of me that's got 512MB RAM and I don't see any DDR socketed RAM. Wonder where they got it from...? Still, it sounds like you've got a bit of a limit there one way or the other which is a bugger.

Cas :)

DanielSilva
Posts: 71
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:07 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:27 pm

Quote from princec on September 2, 2011, 22:19
That's a shame about the chips you can get hold of - though I've got a Tegra board right here in front of me that's got 512MB RAM and I don't see any DDR socketed RAM. Wonder where they got it from...? Still, it sounds like you've got a bit of a limit there one way or the other which is a bugger.


You just don't see any socket because it's soldered to the board, it still uses common mobile ddr not PoP RAM that the raspi uses.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:28 pm

Quote from princec on September 2, 2011, 22:19
That's a shame about the chips you can get hold of - though I've got a Tegra board right here in front of me that's got 512MB RAM and I don't see any DDR socketed RAM. Wonder where they got it from...? Still, it sounds like you've got a bit of a limit there one way or the other which is a bugger.

Cas :)

That's because it's on a PoP package on top of the Tegra 2 on the board. The problem is in that the vendor supplies the whole SoC, including the PoP memory as part of the purchase of the devices. Broadcom's offering them 128's and 256's on the SoC that they're getting right now. NVidia opted to get the 512M device on your SoC there. There's devices out there with 1Gb on them.

The problem you need to reconcile is that it's not taking "the fun out of programming" by limiting what RAM they have at their disposal here. And, I'll contend that if you're needing 512Mb to code with, you might be doing several somethings wrong unless you're making an epic game or you're doing an agressive server or similar.

128Mb is more than enough to serve up 1Tb disks via NFS and CIFS, provide an FTP server, handle eDonkey, BitTorrent downloads, serve up music streams via UPNP or DLNA services. On a machine that is much less powerful than this one and do it for several dozen machines on a 10/100/1000 network reasonably well. The device I mention sold for $150US and got decent reviews. It was based off of a Marvell part and used Linux at it's core.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:29 pm

Quote from DanielSilva on September 2, 2011, 22:27
You just don't see any socket because it's soldered to the board, it still uses common mobile ddr not PoP RAM that the raspi uses.

I thought the Tegra used PoP RAM too. You can get PoP as high as 1Gb in some cases. You just can't get it for the R-Pi right at the moment.

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