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abishur
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Re: What have we missed?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:12 pm

Quote from obarthelemy on August 10, 2011, 01:24
My wishes would be:
- power from USB. In many instances, the thing will be connected to a powered USB hub, so that would save a power brick, at the cost of one port on the hub if the "power" up connexion has to be distinct from the "down" data connexion, at no cost if you can get data to flow downstream on the same USB cable used to flow power upstream. And even when no hub is connected, USB (micro) power supplies are as easy to find as older ones anyway.
- more USB ports. Even 2 means a hub is almost mandatory: keyboard, mouse, touchscreen, external drive, bluetooth, wifi...


Wow, I don't think my desktop could handle that many USB devices! Oddly enough 1-2 USB ports is rapidly becoming the accepted number. The last laptop I purchased only had a single USB port, and the brand new business class laptop my work provided me has 2 + a USB/eSATA port... but USB never seems to fit into it (though now that I think about it maybe that's because it's supposed to be USB 3.0...)

We do know that power from USB isn't feasible at this time. Check out this post because he can explain far better than I would :P

I do think it would be pretty awesome, however, if one of the later version provided for a low power mode which ran off 5V from a USB port. It wouldn't be able to power other USB, but it would make for a great headless device somewhere.
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andrewwaite
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Re: What have we missed?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 4:30 pm

Simple I/O interfaces for school/home electronics projects, similar to the BBC Micro's user port or analogue port would be great.

obarthelemy
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Re: What have we missed?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:07 pm

@abishur: interestingly enough, your laptops already do have a keyboard, mouse/trackpad, wifi, hard disk, and probably bluetooth too. Imagine having none of those and only 2 ports... wouldn't you feel restrained, as in "hub mandatory... couldn't they just have included more ports" ?
On a side note, you're supposed to be able to stick USB2 stuff into a USB3 port. I know I can on my Asus E-350 (something something... Mi ?) deluxe.

AmyS3
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Re: What have we missed?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:07 pm

hm my laptop even got a touchscreen (dell latitude xt) but i still have lots of usb peripherals i connect to this one..
wireless mouse and keyboard (sepperate makers, so 2x usb), external dvd/burner, external 2tb harddrive, rs232 adapter, webcam,spi programmer and sometimes need a free one for a usbstick..
makes 8 in total.. im lucky that i can access my phone over ftp via wifi to access the data on it so i don´t need to use a usb port for it too.
so im used to use usb hubs... got no problem with that.. and powering those is not realy a problem..
since if u put the raspi on the back of a telly, you should remember that you have a power lead to the telly anyway which you may can abuse ;-)

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abishur
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Re: What have we missed?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Quote from obarthelemy on August 10, 2011, 18:07
@abishur: interestingly enough, your laptops already do have a keyboard, mouse/trackpad, wifi, hard disk, and probably bluetooth too. Imagine having none of those and only 2 ports... wouldn't you feel restrained, as in "hub mandatory... couldn't they just have included more ports" ?
On a side note, you're supposed to be able to stick USB2 stuff into a USB3 port. I know I can on my Asus E-350 (something something... Mi ?) deluxe.

This is very true, but I also mentioned my desktop would have a hard time handling all that as well ;) I admit that in my hay day I was big into USB peripherals as well I'm talking USB missile launcher and LCD status display + all my "essentials": printer, scanner, mouse, keyboard (I refused to use the included usb->PS/2 adapter), video capture card. It was ridiculous I had to purchase extra PCI USB cards in addition to using the extra 4 port USB header on my motherboard.

Tales of younger me aside, the ultimate reason I'm not too worried about extra usb ports is because I see the r-pi heading more towards specialization than being the jack of all trade device. You know I get one for acting as a storage server, one as a media relay , one as my webserver, ect. Maybe I'll be able to combine a few of those, but I don't see the r-pi having the horsepower (so to speak) to handle all of it. Of course if it ends up being able to I'm sure I'll be right there with you going "couldn't you add an extra port?" :P

Also, I thought the same thing about USB3 and USB2, it has the little USB symbol next to the port, but I just can't get anything to fit there :?
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liz
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Re: What have we missed?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:32 pm

Unfortunately, the form factor simply doesn't allow for more USB ports - the size of the device (which is important for portability and for nice low shipping costs when we're sending boxes of them to developing countries and so on) is what's limiting us to 2.
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obarthelemy
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Re: What have we missed?

Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:44 pm

I don't want to hijack the thread with my concerns, I've said my piece. I'm in the market for a cheap corded keyboard with a well-supported, integrated pointing device, and a Damn Good USB hub ^^

Cafe
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Re: What have we missed?

Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:07 am

Quote from obarthelemy on August 10, 2011, 22:44
... I'm in the market for a cheap corded keyboard with a well-supported, integrated pointing device, and a Damn Good USB hub ^^

Maybe this keyboard is for you http://amzn.to/nafn0f. Sets you back ~$50, has mixed reviews. You're on your own to get this to work on a Linux distro :( but let us know if you get it working :)

portlandpiper
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Re: What have we missed?

Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:48 am

USB is okay but if you could squeeze an mSATA connector under one of these then you could get decent storage w/ even less power.

jamesh
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Re: What have we missed?

Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:16 am

Quote from portlandpiper on August 11, 2011, 09:48
USB is okay but if you could squeeze an mSATA connector under one of these then you could get decent storage w/ even less power.

The SoC doesn't have SATA on board, so unfortunately that would required even more chippage, which is more board space and more costs. Well beyond the $25 and $35 price points. That said, a lot have mentioned SATA of some form or another so it will need to be looked at in the future.
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andrewwaite1
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Re: What have we missed?

Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:48 pm

A Tube interface for a 6502 second processor would be really cool

pmb777
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Re: What have we missed?

Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:49 pm

Awesome project, I can't wait to see it in production!

I'd really like to see it with power over ethernet (PoE). Anywhere these devices might used in multiples (classrooms?) will benefit from a simpler (and therefore cheaper) tethering scheme. It's hard to imagine using a computer without networking these days, so either it will have a power cable and WiFi, or an ethernet cable. It's difficult to mod a non-PoE design to be 802.3af compliant.

If full 802.3af PoE is too costly, maybe just make passive PoE possible without needing an external splitter cable? Since it's going to be 100Mb, there could be a jumper (or maybe just solder pads) to connect the spare ethernet pairs (through a protection diode) to the power input. That way a classroom full of these could be served and powered from a punchdown panel that had 12v patched into the extra pairs from a single supply, instead of wall-warts and power strips everywhere.

Thanks!

Michael
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Re: What have we missed?

Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:52 pm

There is another thread discussing PoE, where I stated that the cost is around $3-4 in volume or around £16 retail. A design like the Arduino Ethernet shied, where an IEEE-compliant module can simply be plugged if required or omitted for non-PoE functionality, would be a good solution.

http://www.oomlout.co.uk/ardui.....p-259.html
http://www.oomlout.co.uk/index.....cts_id=260

The module shown requires four voltage inputs and two voltage output pins (the remainder can be no-connect). There is a slightly different (-2BR) model available that only requires four pins in total.

jamesh
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:41 am

Quote from andrewwaite1 on August 11, 2011, 14:48
A Tube interface for a 6502 second processor would be really cool

That's some ancient history for you!!

I think there is enough oomph on the Arm to emulate the BBC 6502 and the Tube interface and the 6502 second processor!
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ukscone
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:17 pm

Quote from jamesh on August 12, 2011, 10:41

That's some ancient history for you!!



Talking about ancient history.

will the third version of the R-Pi be called the

R-Pi Master ?

fasaxc
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:38 pm

I'm interested in the possibility of putting a bit more oomph where I might use an arduino right now so if you could break out as many GPIO and analog pins (if available) that'd be great. I wouldn't even mind soldering on my own connector if that helped to keep the price down but it'd definitely be a shame to see IO pins with nothing to talk to.

The other thing that makes the arduino great for my purposes is that the libraries do a lot of the tedious bit banging required to do most stuff. Example code and good libraries that start with simple, synchronous APIs to take advantage of the hardware are key.

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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:24 pm

fasacx, take a look at the video on the front page. the final board is going to be smaller, but you can see that all the pins which concern us are easily accessible.

gerits
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:31 pm

I still think it's quite strange that there is no vga available.. A school doesn't have displays with a analog or hdmi connector...

AmyS3
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:47 pm

there are hdmi2vga adapter aviable... but i dont think that schools will have those as well..
so you are right. it is a bit strange... on the other hand, vga connectors are bigger than hdmi..

jamesh
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:19 pm

Quote from gerits on August 13, 2011, 21:31
I still think it's quite strange that there is no vga available.. A school doesn't have displays with a analog or hdmi connector...

The Videocore GPU has HDMI and composite built in as standard (It started life as a mobile phone chip - they don't have VGA out) , so VGA would have to be an extra circuitry and connector and hence extra cost.
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hordecore
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:53 pm

I'd also like a second SD slot if possible, for backup purposes most I guess. I can see lot of tinkering with these. While there are lots of asks for hardware/software can I ask for the best possible documentation possible. Should it be online/books etc.

For those of us without a huge background in this area, a great knowledge base is my no1 wish!

ViewTouch
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 20, 2011 6:45 pm

I would implore everyone to NOT limit their view of the value of the Raspberry Pi to its usefulness as simply a very small PC, i.e., as a computer running only those apps which fit into its memory or processing constraints. It has a vastly enhanced and more useful role as a graphical X terminal providing users with display/input sessions to applications running remote to it on ANY hardware, on ANY operating system, written in ANY programming language or environment. What the Raspberry Pi needs it already has to run X, SSH and to listen to requests for TCP connections from remote hosts running any kind of client application, especially those written with graphics making direct Xlib calls.

jeicrash
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:12 pm

You can also get HDMI to DVI adapters which will work with most flat screens. About $11 or cheaper, then a DVI-VGA adapter about $15. Yes it is a lot of adapters but I think the R-Pi team is thinking more along the lines of low cost vs having all the same features as a full blown motherboard. Also some USB video cards DO work with Linux, I seen a post earlier that said they do not. http://mulchman.org/blog/?tag=.....video-card

It will all boil down to what is available for the ARM architecture at first.

toxibunny
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:47 pm

no need for a second SD slot guys - just use a USB card reader...
note: I may or may not know what I'm talking about...

hordecore
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:39 pm

I'm curious as to whether you have asked for support from ISP's for this project. I ask because I am a lowly Customer Service (don't care what you think, I'm pretty good at it! ;) ) with VirginMedia and would have expected to have seen some involvement from this quarter. Is this something that you've considered? I'm guessing purely from a tech support aspect that should a "normal" person seek assistance with linux/ARM to their ISP their up **** creek without a paddle. As it is most ISP support is pretty guff. (personal opinion incase someone higher up from VM is watching lol).

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