Michael
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:29 pm

Quote from TreacleWelding on July 30, 2011, 19:17
At 250 Euros and climbing, I think you missed the essential point of the $25 computer. I'd much rather run a firewall on on the $25 computer if I can.

The point is, the more peripherals you add, the more expensive the product becomes and the more demand there is for additional different models. The volume for each model goes down, so the bulk savings goes down, so the price goes up even further. You want a second Ethernet so R.Pi can be used as a firewall - there will certainly be others that will want a third Ethernet so their firewall can have a DMZ.

Its still not what you really want, but at ~$75 the ALIX 2d2 or 2d3 from PC Engines makes a great platform for a small solid state firewall. http://pcengines.ch/

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ukscone
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:20 am

hardware-wise for the first version i think you've pretty much got everything but if you don't have a bootloader (u-boot, barebox )as such then something that lets us boot into a useful bare metal environment rather than linux would be nice. Something along the lines of interp ( http://interp.sourceforge.net ) or something more fullblown and BASIC-y or lua-y or python-y

Michael
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:09 am

How about providing the ability to field-upgrade the Model-A to a Model-B with the exception of the memory? Please also try to get back to the USB-stick shape and size for production, with HDMI and Ethernet at opposite ends of the Model-B stick.

One possibility (although it would have an impact on BOM cost) would be to put the LAN9512, second USB and Ethernet on a daughter board.

Quote from Michael on July 30, 2011, 19:17
An alternative might be to make one of the USB ports on the R.Pi a USB mini-AB port. One could then connect two R.Pi's together using a mini-A to mini-B USB lead with one R.Pi being the host and the other one being the device, and copy files that way.


How many USB does the BCMxxxx support directly? Is it capable of both host and device modes?

[mod edit to redact chip name (sorry)]

eben
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:13 am

Quote from ukscone on July 31, 2011, 02:20
hardware-wise for the first version i think you've pretty much got everything but if you don't have a bootloader (u-boot, barebox )as such then something that lets us boot into a useful bare metal environment rather than linux would be nice. Something along the lines of interp ( http://interp.sourceforge.net ) or something more fullblown and BASIC-y or lua-y or python-y

I think the kernel patch set we'll be releasing for the first version should have enough info in for someone to port a boot loader. Ultimately, if you want a bare-metal environment, the best way to get it is simply to replace kernel.img on the FAT32 boot partition with whatever you want to have injected at address zero. The GPU will load this into memory and take the ARM out of reset automatically.

eben
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:19 am

How many USB does the BCMxxxx support directly? Is it capable of both host and device modes?

One USB2.0 port. We do support both device and host mode, though only host mode will be supported in software at launch.

Cafe
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:52 am

Quote from unholythree on July 30, 2011, 09:48
What about a version with more than one RJ45 connector? This would be great for a super cheap firewall.

How about just using one of the USB ports with an Ethernet-USB adapter? You will then need a USB hub if you need more than one free USB port, but it is unlikely you will need more USB ports if you were using the Raspi as a firewall.

Cafe
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:02 pm

Quote from EWH on July 29, 2011, 22:50
An alternative might be to make one of the USB ports on the R.Pi a USB mini-AB port. One could then connect two R.Pi's together using a mini-A to mini-B USB lead with one R.Pi being the host and the other one being the device, and copy files that way.


I can imagine this use (and I see Eben has replied that the Raspi can be in either device mode or host mode; only host mode supported at launch), but I wonder why a USB card reader couldn't be used to copy between SD cards.

Maybe you had a different use case in mind and I don't see it?

MDC
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:05 pm

I thought I would ask about exterior functionality, like how the device looks and exterior features,
Like a lanyard hole on the device and wondered if it would come with a hole I could put a lanyard through(especially so if you are going to target children using the pi, who may lose them).

Can anyone else think of any?

Also do raspberry Pi have a logo, or is the name the logo?.

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liz
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:26 pm

We don't have a logo yet - we're actually planning on running a competition to design one, so watch this space!
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cougarten
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:26 pm

I'd love to see VGA output as these Monitors are really cheap to have (search a bit and you'll find a free lcd)

Michael
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:22 pm

I wonder why a USB card reader couldn't be used to copy between SD cards.

Maybe you had a different use case in mind and I don't see it?

For hobbyists, its not a problem - just bung the SD card in a USB card reader and use a laptop or desktop to copy the disk. For the developing world, you can't necessarily assume they have a laptop or desktop (especially with USB) and have access to a USB card reader.

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ukscone
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:33 pm

Quote from eben on July 31, 2011, 12:13
Quote from ukscone on July 31, 2011, 02:20
hardware-wise for the first version i think you've pretty much got everything but if you don't have a bootloader (u-boot, barebox )as such then something that lets us boot into a useful bare metal environment rather than linux would be nice. Something along the lines of interp ( http://interp.sourceforge.net ) or something more fullblown and BASIC-y or lua-y or python-y

I think the kernel patch set we'll be releasing for the first version should have enough info in for someone to port a boot loader. Ultimately, if you want a bare-metal environment, the best way to get it is simply to replace kernel.img on the FAT32 boot partition with whatever you want to have injected at address zero. The GPU will load this into memory and take the ARM out of reset automatically.

So if we ignore the GPU funkyness and assume a coldboot/warmboot will execute from 0x00000000 after the GPU does all the initialization and loading from the SD card we'd be on the right track?

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ukscone
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:30 pm

Quote from liz on July 31, 2011, 14:26
We don't have a logo yet - we're actually planning on running a competition to design one, so watch this space!

not an entry for the contest and i er "borrowed" the graphics i used as i have the graphic talent of a brick but here is a rough logo (needs tidying up and tweaking) i knocked up quickly.
http://russelldavis.org/Stuff/.....small.jpeg

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abishur
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:31 pm

Quote from Michael on July 30, 2011, 19:17
Quote from EWH on July 29, 2011, 22:50
The biggest improvement to usability for the target educational market would be a 2nd SD card slot.

Good point. For hobbyists, it would be no problem to put the SD card into a reader attached to a Desktop Linux machine (or NFS mount from R.Pi) and dd an image into or out of a card. But I can see that for the education market, being able to copy directly between cards on the Raspberry Pi itself would be very useful.

An alternative might be to make one of the USB ports on the R.Pi a USB mini-AB port. One could then connect two R.Pi's together using a mini-A to mini-B USB lead with one R.Pi being the host and the other one being the device, and copy files that way.


All I can think of is the old dos days copy A: *.* A: :D
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JerryMcBride
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:28 pm

Like has been said prior....

More ram, additional USB port, Ethernet, VGA (would be nice but I know complicated), additional card slot

My big experiment for the Raspberry.pi will be a low end cluster... Ethernet at 100m is a must... 1g would be heavenly...

That said. I am anxiously waiting for the project to go public. Please add me to whatever mailing list you have. The "B" rev of this board sounds ok.... but I'd love "C" version sporting more hardware resources.

Thank you, for bringing such a wonderful dream to us.

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liz
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:42 pm

Quote from ukscone on July 31, 2011, 17:30
Quote from liz on July 31, 2011, 14:26
We don't have a logo yet - we're actually planning on running a competition to design one, so watch this space!

not an entry for the contest and i er "borrowed" the graphics i used as i have the graphic talent of a brick but here is a rough logo (needs tidying up and tweaking) i knocked up quickly.
http://russelldavis.org/Stuff/.....small.jpeg

Adorable. Eben and I are both making gurgly chuckling noises over it. :)
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Johannes
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:42 pm

Is there a real-time clock on board?
Is the power port protected against wrong polarity?
Before anything else, more RAM would be useful, because it can't be added via USB or other interfaces.
It would be great if you could get official Linux kernel support for your device early on.
JTAG support if there is any chance of "bricking" the device with a botched firmware flashing
Ship.

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liz
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:43 pm

Quote from JerryMcBride on July 31, 2011, 21:28
Like has been said prior....

More ram, additional USB port, Ethernet, VGA (would be nice but I know complicated), additional card slot

My big experiment for the Raspberry.pi will be a low end cluster... Ethernet at 100m is a must... 1g would be heavenly...

That said. I am anxiously waiting for the project to go public. Please add me to whatever mailing list you have. The "B" rev of this board sounds ok.... but I'd love "C" version sporting more hardware resources.

Thank you, for bringing such a wonderful dream to us.

I'm not even going to start *thinking* about a C rev yet - we've got enough on our hands with the first version!
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liz
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:46 pm

Quote from Johannes on July 31, 2011, 21:42
Is there a real-time clock on board?
Is the power port protected against wrong polarity?
Before anything else, more RAM would be useful, because it can't be added via USB or other interfaces.
It would be great if you could get official Linux kernel support for your device early on.
JTAG support if there is any chance of "bricking" the device with a botched firmware flashing
Ship.

Interestingly, there's no real-time clock. It's such a low-power device that we're expecting that most users will be keeping the thing on all the time; users with a network connection will be able to get their time from the network at boot; and everyone else will, I'm afraid, have to type the time in at boot, just like in the good old days!

The power port is protected against wrong polarity. Everyone loves diodes!

We'll be producing a patch set for Linux and attempting to push it upstream.

Firmware lives on the SD card, so you can always recover if you have another machine kicking around.
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abishur
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:56 pm

Quote from JerryMcBride on July 31, 2011, 21:28
Like has been said prior....

More ram, additional USB port, Ethernet, VGA (would be nice but I know complicated), additional card slot

My big experiment for the Raspberry.pi will be a low end cluster... Ethernet at 100m is a must... 1g would be heavenly...

Thank you, for bringing such a wonderful dream to us.

Yikes so many additions would send the price skyrocketing! If you need those sort of specs, I would suggest a low end Alix board. I've seen them as low as $90. (which is probably what the price of an R-Pi would go to for those additions) :?
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ukscone
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:45 pm

Quote from liz on July 31, 2011, 21:42
Quote from ukscone on July 31, 2011, 17:30
Quote from liz on July 31, 2011, 14:26
We don't have a logo yet - we're actually planning on running a competition to design one, so watch this space!

not an entry for the contest and i er "borrowed" the graphics i used as i have the graphic talent of a brick but here is a rough logo (needs tidying up and tweaking) i knocked up quickly.
http://russelldavis.org/Stuff/.....small.jpeg

Adorable. Eben and I are both making gurgly chuckling noises over it. :)

As i am in procrastination mode and there is only so much stareing at the ceiling and wall you can do I did another little logo effort.

Again i "borrowed" the componant images and did a teeny bit of tweaking but maybe something more like this http://russelldavis.org/Stuff/.....-logo.jpeg would more suitable as a logo :)

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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:49 pm

I couldn't resist throwing together my logo too :p

Now I have ZERO skills as an artist nor am I very proficient with photo editting software, so this image is HORRIBLE, but it gets my idea across and maybe someone with better skill than me can make it look better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-76SV ... 2/r-pi.jpg
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ukscone
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Re: What have we missed?

Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:51 pm

Quote from abishur on July 31, 2011, 23:49
I couldn't resist throwing together my logo too :p

Now I have ZERO skills as an artist nor am I very proficient with photo editting software, so this image is HORRIBLE, but it gets my idea across and maybe someone with better skill than me can make it look better.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-76SV ... 2/r-pi.jpg

nice. a bit of tweaking and someone who can actually use GIMP or Photoshop (unlike me) could do some good things with that.

I think we are going to force liz to start a logo thread :)

daviduk
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Re: What have we missed?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:39 am

A ZX Spectrum emulator would definately sell it for me ;)

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Re: What have we missed?

Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:15 am

Quote from eben on July 27, 2011, 22:52
Quote from tsamb on July 27, 2011, 22:34
Hi Eben,

What's the pixel clock of the GPU? Can it output at 1920x1080 (or 1920x1200) at 60Hz?

Also, a combo WiFi/Bluetooth chip would be nice...



Specs on the GPU are 1Gpixel/s, 1.5Gtexel/s, 24GFLOPs. Comfortably enough to run, say, Quake 3 at 1080p30.

Hello Eben,

Quick question -- is that a guess or have you run some sort of emulation to play Q3 on the engineering samples via wine or otherwise?

Does the GPU support OpenCL, CUDA, or any sort of middleware technology to offload high FP calculations to GPU?

What are the capabilities of running x86 software on the Raspberry Pi?

Given the current engineering samples, could you give us a CPU MIPS/Dhrystone metric to go by?

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