soto
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:41 am

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:48 pm

is 700MHz the maximum limit?

csmiddy
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:32 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:34 pm

Interesting to see how many people are mentioning a restore feature. We'll definitely have something along those lines, especially given that the target audience is kids, who, we hope, will be killing and restoring the device with the best of us!

I'm glad you guys are considering this to me it seems like a great idea.

Poposhka
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:56 pm

if you leave out the zx spectrum compatibility i will be sorely upset. What kind of nonvolatile storage will it have other than the SD/USB? will we be able to mod the firmware? I'd like a jtag port, and I2C/CAN type of functionality as well.

Poposhka
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:00 pm

ah now it showed up... :o

eggtastico
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:22 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:13 pm

Future updates could include :-
sim card slot
microphone socket
LVDS connector

The ability to daisy chain a few up for extra processing power.

ShiftPlusOne
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
Raspberry Pi Engineer & Forum Moderator
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Location: The unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:58 pm

1+ on the JTAG thing.

I think the specs are great, but I am a bit worried. The specs are pretty much those of the OpenPandora or an Android phone, and the 800mhz phones struggle a bit. I would hope that's because of all the java bloat and bad programming.

However, I understand that it's primarily a cheap educational tool and something that's brilliant for hobbyist projects, so it would be unreasonable to expect the performance of a full desktop.

kmcqueen
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:37 pm

Analog audio I/O? I would need stereo Mic in and Speaker out to use this board.

LuisSP
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:39 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

A way to add a battery, 3.5mm audio jack and some way of connecting a touchscreen. Raspberry Pi Tablet, anyone?

MDC
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:27 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:45 pm

What about security. When you make this device wireless, can anyone think of a way of protecting your pi.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:54 pm

@MDC: That would be up to the wireless security protocol and your application. Wireless and Security is a bit of an oxymoron most of the time anyhow.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:00 pm

Quote from ShiftPlusOne on July 29, 2011, 18:58
I think the specs are great, but I am a bit worried. The specs are pretty much those of the OpenPandora or an Android phone, and the 800mhz phones struggle a bit. I would hope that's because of all the java bloat and bad programming.


The specs are similar to the OpenPandora or an early model 2.X Android phone. The 800MHz phones (I happen to have one- Cyanogenmod 7 helps a bit, even if it still has "issues" because of it being "low end" these days...) struggle more because the reasons you surmise- it's the overhead of the Dalvik, coupled with all the garbage collection that's going on because there's only 128Mb of RAM and it leaves all sorts of junk cached in the RAM when you're not using it because you "might" use it again.

As an educational/embedded system, it's VERY usable for it's intended purposes as well as a few un-intended ones that people are toying with.

nomis
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:23 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:28 pm

How would we install the os of our choice? Will it have USB booting supported? Is it BIOS or EFI? I am not the most familiar with ARM. But yes, Wifi would be nice. Bluetooth, I have survived without it. Internal storage?

caminati
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 5:23 pm
Contact: Website

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:29 pm

Quote from nomis on July 29, 2011, 21:28
How would we install the os of our choice? Will it have USB booting supported? Is it BIOS or EFI? I am not the most familiar with ARM. But yes, Wifi would be nice. Bluetooth, I have survived without it. Internal storage?

Your questions somehow overlap with mine at
http://www.raspberrypi.org/?pa.....&t=17,
which received some answers already.
Hope it helps.

MDC
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 6:27 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:41 pm

What about security. When you make this device wireless, can anyone think of a way of protecting your pi

I meant against viruses ect.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:47 pm

Viruses are going to be a smidge more difficult to accomplish than you'd think. While I'm not foolish enough to think that Linux is "invulnerable":

1) The bulk of computer virii are targeted to Windows and more specifically X86 Windows.
2) They'd have to circumvent Linux' own security that's mostly by design.
3) They'd have to make it something that would be hidden, but yet work on X86, ARM, MIPS, PowerPC, etc.

Now, vulnerabilities from things like cross-site scripting, etc... Well, you're going to have problems with that and NOTHING will "protect" you against it, contrary to what the Malware companies are flogging.

EWH
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:10 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:50 pm

The biggest improvement to usability for the target educational market would be a 2nd SD card slot. On the old computers that had only one floppy drive it was a pain in the butt to copy a disk. The source and destination disks would have to be shuffled several times as a block the size of free memory was copied each time. Having a separate boot / basic software card and a 2nd card slot that can hold various data, whether a classmate's shared card, a big application, or other things would also make the machine far more usable.

An accessory that would make the system far more practical for kids would be a carrying case that can accommodate a low-weight, low-profile power supply, cord storage, protected computer storage (it's going to end up on the bottom of a 10kg bookbag and dropped from three feet on a frequent basis) and if possible, a low-profile keyboard and mouse storage. (Recommended standard human I/O devices should be offered at a good price with the RP.) There should be spare room for other items such as expansion cards, a documentation booklet, and secure storage for SD cards, too. The target size should be about the same as a mid-size textbook.

Another thing that could be crucial in the adoption of RP in education would be to copy the factor that made Arduino so popular - a standard expansion interface with add-on cards available, both from the originators and from 3rd parties. Different people want to do all sorts of things with the computer, but it would quickly become far too large and expensive if they were all built in. A standard mechanical, electrical and software interface is needed, preferably using the existing ports. The first such add on card should be a port expander that gives physical connectors for all the USB ports that the internal hub can handle. Other early expansion cards or shields could include:
RF communication,
LCD displays,
an alternative I/O module for embedded uses,
a breadboard module with some digital I/O, A/D and D/A
a rechargeable battery and power supply module for embedded or tablet uses,
a sensor module with microphone, 2 or 3 axis accelerometer, user-hackable header inputs, etc. and
a motor-control module for robotics.

These should be designed so that multiple cards/shields can be used together. Perhaps a bridge from one of the RP interfaces to the Arduino interface could speed up adoption and instantly allow many existing shield products to be used, at least if there were an appropriate bit of software available for emulation and signal translation.

A plastic case for the RP itself is needed. An optional case that can accommodate expansion cards would also be great. For instance I can envision a flat case about10 x 15cm or a bit larger that can fit the RP and 3 cards all in the same plane, with enough thickness to allow a 1cm battery module on the bottom and an 1 cm LCD on the top, with the card layer in between - about 4 cm thick altogether.

The price needs to go up by 20% for qty.1 purchases, with a discount for distributors. This will actually lower the end-user price for those living outside the UK, and make the boards far more available worldwide.

Svartalf
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:02 pm

ZX Spectrum compatibility?

Heh... Wouldn't FUSE or something like it count? :D

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abishur
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Re: What have we missed?

Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:47 pm

+1 to the optional battery idea.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some T-shirt options oddly enough. I wouldn't mind rocking an r-pi t-shirt to help with advertising (it would be especially cool if the shirt had a QR barcode somewhere on it).

Let us know if you ever get a Google+ or facebook page!
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Mr_Navigator
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:58 am
Contact: Website

Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:35 am

Quote from abishur on July 28, 2011, 05:32
I'm actually pretty excited about this just the way it is! As more and more features get added, the price is going to get further and further away from that 25 dollar sweet spot, and I'd also imagine that if you provided too many different "flavors" that too would drive the price up (More options equals less of each option purchased from manufacture equals higher per unit production cost).

The only big thing I can think of is a quick and efficient way to restore the device to it's original settings. I know I'm going to be tweaking settings all over the place with this guy, so being able to restore the whole system without having to go through a huge production of re-installing the OS from scratch each time would be nice.

I totally agree about keeping it within a price differential, that allows more and more people to explore, have fun with it and make their own systems and other 'stuff'

What I would like to see is the ability for the RP to 'boot' up using another operating system that is a retro type and not just emulated through Linux, so a Sinclair QL for example, that has a very good programming language in SuperBASIC, very simple to pick up and make things happen without all the over complexities of modern languages but still very powerful.

unholythree
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:18 am

Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:48 am

What about a version with more than one RJ45 connector? This would be great for a super cheap firewall.

gaelic
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:36 am

Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 10:38 am

Quote from unholythree on July 30, 2011, 09:48
What about a version with more than one RJ45 connector? This would be great for a super cheap firewall.

For that I would recommend m0n0wall: http://www.m0n0.ch

for hardware look at: http://m0n0.ch/wall/hardware.php

eggn1n3
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:36 am

Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:56 pm

Keep it indeed modular so you can add the extra I/O boards yourself. This also could start new projects by the community by adding new functionality for all kinds of projects. Maybe the Raspberry Pi foundation could develop I/O modules themselves for educational purposes and develop libraries to make it easy to use (like Arduino).

TreacleWelding
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:18 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:17 pm

Quote from gaelic on July 30, 2011, 11:38
Quote from unholythree on July 30, 2011, 09:48
What about a version with more than one RJ45 connector? This would be great for a super cheap firewall.

For that I would recommend m0n0wall: http://www.m0n0.ch

for hardware look at: http://m0n0.ch/wall/hardware.phpAt 250 Euros and climbing, I think you missed the essential point of the $25 computer. I'd much rather run a firewall on on the $25 computer if I can.

Michael
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:05 pm

Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:17 pm

Quote from EWH on July 29, 2011, 22:50
The biggest improvement to usability for the target educational market would be a 2nd SD card slot.

Good point. For hobbyists, it would be no problem to put the SD card into a reader attached to a Desktop Linux machine (or NFS mount from R.Pi) and dd an image into or out of a card. But I can see that for the education market, being able to copy directly between cards on the Raspberry Pi itself would be very useful.

An alternative might be to make one of the USB ports on the R.Pi a USB mini-AB port. One could then connect two R.Pi's together using a mini-A to mini-B USB lead with one R.Pi being the host and the other one being the device, and copy files that way.

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abishur
Posts: 4477
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Re: What have we missed?

Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:22 pm

Quote from gaelic on July 30, 2011, 11:38
Quote from unholythree on July 30, 2011, 09:48
What about a version with more than one RJ45 connector? This would be great for a super cheap firewall.

For that I would recommend m0n0wall: http://www.m0n0.ch

for hardware look at: http://m0n0.ch/wall/hardware.php

I actually checked this out shortly before I discovered R-Pi, it's a great idea, but for 250 pounds if you want their hardware, or build your own super cheap PC, or get an Alix board, it's rather cost prohibitive.

I'm all for it putting the software on the R-Pi if they end up supporting an ARM package, but I plan on using one R-Pi with firestarter to act as a firewall. It would be pretty sweet if there was an extra Ethernet port, but since any home ISP provides at most 50 Mbits/sec which is only 6 and a quarter MB/sec then a USB 2.0 Ethernet device will provide more than enough speed to handle WAN side ethernet speeds.

Also, I'm not certain if two Ethernet ports could be controlled by the LAN9512 they're planning on using.
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