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davidcoton
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:36 pm

But note that a visually similar component has gone from the right-hand edge of the board, below the SDCard socket.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:42 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:36 pm
But note that a visually similar component has gone from the right-hand edge of the board, below the SDCard socket.
Yea, it looks like they moved a VRM.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:20 pm

I got another RPI4 on friday, looks like its the new thing you guys are talking about, everythign looked the same as my old one but on closer inspection of that comparison pic with the moved component (the one I busted on my frist rpi4 and had to resolder on). It also looks like they added some green component near pin16 on the header. On first glance of the board I did not notice any difference, because the silkscreen is almost identical to the old one i have (aside from there is no longer a lable for U5). the difference in silkscreen on both my pi4b4gb's and the silkscreen from http://akkiesoft.hatenablog.jp/entry/20 ... 1574911998 have either something to do with the japan version or the difference in (i dont know, distributor? manufacture?) both mine are element14 (models?)(edition?) and that one is OKdo

Image
this is the info for my week 22 2019 rpi4

Image
this is the info for my week 38 2019 rpi4 i just got on friday

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:18 pm

I got a discounted (Black Friday) Pi4B2GB, with date code 2719 and clearly revision 1.1 (not yet powered up to check the eeprom data -- waiting for new PSU and HDMI cable).

Has any owner of Rev 1.2 checked for the USB-C electronically marked cable issue?
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm

One (serial 84349855) is c03111, the other (serial 23C20032) is C03112

The decoding for that revision number is uuuuuuuuFMMMCCCCPPPPTTTTTTTTRRRR (unused leading zeros are dropped).

1 100 0000 0011 00010001 0001
&
1 100 0000 0011 00010001 0010

F=1 (new format revision code)
MMM=100 (4) == 4GB
CCCC=0000 (0) (Sony)
PPPP=0011 (3) (BCM2711)
TTTTTTTT = 00010001 ((BCD) 11) (4B)
RRRR=0001 or RRRR=0002 (1 or 2)

Both are made by Sony UK, Both are 4B 4GB. Only difference (from a software point of view) is that minor revision number.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:37 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:18 pm
I got a discounted (Black Friday) Pi4B2GB, with date code 2719 and clearly revision 1.1
Do you have a small 3 legged SOT component near the I in MICRO SD on the bottom?
davidcoton wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:18 pm
Has any owner of Rev 1.2 checked for the USB-C electronically marked cable issue?
The area around the PMIC looks identical so I assume the USB-C CC fix hasn't gone in yet. I'd expect an extra resistor and the parts to move around slightly accomodate it.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:45 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm
RRRR=0001 or RRRR=0002 0010 (1 or 2)
Not quite right Dougie, but I think most of us know what you meant.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:03 pm

wildfire wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:45 pm
DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm
RRRR=0001 or RRRR=0002 0010 (1 or 2)
Not quite right Dougie, but I think most of us know what you meant.
Ah, you're a wee pedant. I knew what I meant. I've submitted a pull request for the RPF revision number documentation (since we've now seen one in the wild).
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:12 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:03 pm
I knew what I meant.
You did, I did and most others here did, but there's that 1 other type of person that didn't ;)
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 pm

trejan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:37 pm
davidcoton wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:18 pm
I got a discounted (Black Friday) Pi4B2GB, with date code 2719 and clearly revision 1.1
Do you have a small 3 legged SOT component near the I in MICRO SD on the bottom?
See my previous post. The three-legged SOT is on the board edge, hence 1.1.
trejan wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:37 pm
davidcoton wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:18 pm
Has any owner of Rev 1.2 checked for the USB-C electronically marked cable issue?
The area around the PMIC looks identical so I assume the USB-C CC fix hasn't gone in yet. I'd expect an extra resistor and the parts to move around slightly accomodate it.
That depends. There are various levels of fix. R1 could be repurposed, leaving no capability on the Pi to sense the remote PD resistors. Then it would be a tracking change only. At the other extreme, both R1 and R79 need to be duplicated (and possibly a value change for R1), to give full sensing capability in both plug orientations. I'm not certain whether the Pi needs to sense the remote PD resistors -- I think (though I may be wrong) that only purpose is to control power delivery from the Pi via USB-C, and I see no sign of the circuitry necessary for that (it would be tricky to permit power input and control power output in different circumstances on the same connections).
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:08 am

So does anybody know who is shipping the new 4B and in what memory capacities ?
Will the forthcoming MIDI-2 spec at last allow us to set the volume to 11 !!

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:07 am

davidcoton wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:23 pm
That depends. There are various levels of fix. R1 could be repurposed, leaving no capability on the Pi to sense the remote PD resistors. Then it would be a tracking change only. At the other extreme, both R1 and R79 need to be duplicated (and possibly a value change for R1), to give full sensing capability in both plug orientations. I'm not certain whether the Pi needs to sense the remote PD resistors -- I think (though I may be wrong) that only purpose is to control power delivery from the Pi via USB-C, and I see no sign of the circuitry necessary for that (it would be tricky to permit power input and control power output in different circumstances on the same connections).
So far as I can tell...that's backwards. The resistors are so that the PSU can sense what voltage and current levels to supply to the Pi. If the Pi is misidentified or can't be identified, a "smart" PSU/cable will supply the default of 5v at 900mA.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:29 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:07 am
If the Pi is misidentified or can't be identified, a "smart" PSU/cable will supply the default of 5v at 900mA.
Actually, it's a misidentification that's causing the lack of power. The Pi is being detected as a self powered audio device, so the PSU sends no power.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:44 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:07 am
So far as I can tell...that's backwards. The resistors are so that the PSU can sense what voltage and current levels to supply to the Pi. If the Pi is misidentified or can't be identified, a "smart" PSU/cable will supply the default of 5v at 900mA.
No, the resistors are there to establish whether a port is a host or a device, and hence (among other things) if VBUS should supply an initial 5V. If a USB C device wants to activate higher current modes it needs to negotiate that using power delivery communications.

IIRC in theory you are supposed to negotiate before drawing more than 1.5A at 5V, but in practice I would be very surprised if a power supply actually enforced said limits.

The cables can also optionally contain electronics (and have to if they want to support certain features). Unlike a passive cable that only ever connects to one of the two "CC" lines, an active cable can connect to both (though I don't think it has to) and at least some active cables (notablly apple ones) don't get on with the pi 4.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:42 am

DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm
One (serial 84349855) is c03111, the other (serial 23C20032) is C03112
This stating that you personally have one in hand? Merely analyzing what the prior poster typed?

If you're confirming then we've got a confirmation from a long-term registered user. The previous poster was new here, though they still increment the count of supporting reports. (grr, US Snail is sure transporting that case slowly, so no comments until tomorrow)

Have you observed any differences?

Could personnel from the Raspberry PI Foundation give a time-frame for when the foundation will be admitting to the existence of this variant and what changed?

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:50 am

ehem wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:42 am
Could personnel from the Raspberry PI Foundation give a time-frame for when the foundation will be admitting to the existence of this variant and what changed?
They won't do that.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:18 am

ehem wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:42 am
DougieLawson wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:29 pm
One (serial 84349855) is c03111, the other (serial 23C20032) is C03112
This stating that you personally have one in hand? Merely analyzing what the prior poster typed?

If you're confirming then we've got a confirmation from a long-term registered user. The previous poster was new here, though they still increment the count of supporting reports. (grr, US Snail is sure transporting that case slowly, so no comments until tomorrow)

Have you observed any differences?

Could personnel from the Raspberry PI Foundation give a time-frame for when the foundation will be admitting to the existence of this variant and what changed?
It shows in the photos that Cakeslob posted. I'm assuming they're genuine.

We'll find out when they action the pull request I've done for their official revision docs.
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:07 am

I dont know enough about whats going on to fake it, so here are some hardware pics
Image Image Image Image

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:14 am

cakeslob wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:07 am
I dont know enough about whats going on to fake it, so here are some hardware pics
Image Image Image Image
Your silkscreen is completely different to the one in the hatenablog.jp post. It looks more like the UK purchased Pi 4 I have as it doesn't have all the certification numbers. One strange difference is that the solder connections for the stacked USB 3.0 port has a white silkscreen square over it on yours.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:32 am

The last bit of hardware has shown up and now I'm starting towards my project.

The Raspberry PI 4B-4GB bought at MicroCenter on Sunday appears to be the v1.2 board. I took pictures, but not being on any of the big photo-sharing sites (nor steal-your-face Book) I don't have a handy place to stash them... Looks like the v1.2 4GB is very real, though some v1.1 boards may still be out there.

No, I don't have a sufficiently smart cable and power supply to test whether the USB-C issue has disappeared. For me that is mostly an issue of whether I need to take care to keep it paired with the right power supply. This is also my first Raspberry PI so I'm don't know any differences.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:59 am

ehem wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:32 am
The Raspberry PI 4B-4GB bought at MicroCenter on Sunday appears to be the v1.2 board.
Why not just ask the operating system what board you're running.

grep -i 'revision' /proc/cpuinfo then decode the revision number (heres a clue: the last digit is the version)
cat /sys/firmware/devicetree/base/model;echo
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:07 pm

cakeslob wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:07 am
I dont know enough about whats going on to fake it, so here are some hardware pics ...
The pictures appear to be the 1.2 revision. What is the revision from Dougie's recipe above?
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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:41 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 8:59 am
ehem wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:32 am
The Raspberry PI 4B-4GB bought at MicroCenter on Sunday appears to be the v1.2 board.
Why not just ask the operating system what board you're running.

grep -i 'revision' /proc/cpuinfo then decode the revision number (heres a clue: the last digit is the version)
cat /sys/firmware/devicetree/base/model;echo
That is what I meant by "appears to be the v1.2 board". The software is reporting values consistent with the reports of the v1.2 board, `cat /proc/cpuinfo` and find "Revision : c03112", "Model : Raspberry Pi 4 Model B Rev 1.2". I won't claim to have the longest history on this board, but hopefully I have enough for Cob to accept my report as believable.

So we're back to the question of what changed on the v1.2 board? I imagine the USB-C issue is fixed as adding a single resistor is very cheap (once the design work is done).

Someone who exists on eLinux's wiki, might add to their timeline of revision c03112 showing up in September and when RPF officially announces add that date too. Based on earlier analysis they should announce within 1-2 months and we'll have official word of what changed.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:53 pm

spooker wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:45 pm
Is the usb specification violation finally fixed in 1.2? The foundation should have made an exception for the mess they created and announce the changes in the new revision right away.
No direct evidence that the rev. 1.2 fixes the USB-C issue has been presented. It's also not clear that fixing that is much of a priority, especially since the less expensive ways to power a Pi4B don't run into the issue.

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Re: New Pi 4B v1.2?

Tue Dec 10, 2019 7:41 am

spooker wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:45 pm
Is the usb specification violation finally fixed in 1.2? The foundation should have made an exception for the mess they created and announce the changes in the new revision right away.
What mess? Are you talking about the massively overblown click bait articles about the USB C power problem? Its a complete non issue except for those people with power supplies that cost three times the pi itself, or those people who get money from clicks.
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