Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:01 pm

Hi everyone,

For the past month myself and the other admins have been working with Liz and the Raspberry Pi Foundation on setting up a community website ahead of the official RasPi launch.

We are have just setup several forums on the EduGeek.net network which are hopefully going to become the "go-to" place for students, teachers and geeks wanting to learn more about developing on the RasPi.

These forums are intended to provide practical information about Building, Developing and Sharing information about the Raspberry Pi, in addition to the more "general discussions" that go on in this forum.

To help us start creating RasPi content before the official launch please register for an account on EduGeek here:

http://www.frambozenbier.org/i.....aspi-forum

Once registered the forums can be found under:

"Forums" > on the "Direct Support" sub-menu.

A big thanks to Liz and the RasPi Foundation for all of their help and support setting up this RasPi community resource.

{Frambozenbier: Raspberry Homebrew community resources in 53 languages}

Steady_Bear
Posts: 110
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:19 pm

Sorry about the pedantry (I know I'm coming across as a prat with this statement, it's certainly not my intent), but...

Build-Android is miss-spelled on the page you link to.

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:22 pm

Yes, its being changed now by one of the other site admins (ZeroHour).

Thanks.

Steady_Bear
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:04 pm

The irony is, without spell checking on my browser most of what I type would look like someone mashing the keyboard... Typos-galore (and less than adequate spelling).

hippy
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:46 am

Turbo-Frambozenbier said:

These forums are intended to provide practical information about Building, Developing and Sharing information about the Raspberry Pi, in addition to the more "general discussions" that go on in this forum.
Looks like it will be an excellent resource.

The forum seems to be expecting a browser screen width of 1024 pixels or so and isn't easy to read fluently on a smaller screen without continually scrolling left and right so it would be great if the forum could size itself to the browser window.

Browser display width is likely to be an issue for any R-Pi user using a composite TV with its limited resolution and is ideally something anyone producing material for R-Pi users should make themselves aware of.

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:58 am

Hi hippy,

Thanks for your feedback.

A few weeks ago we had the site automatically detecting devices and automatically re-sizing accordingly for tablets, handhelds, android, iphone and ipad however the browsers on most of these new devices were so good that often the "full" version of the site looked better than the dumbed-down "mobile " version of the site.

Try the site again now, or try:

http://www.frambozenbier.org/?ui=iphone

We'll keep working with you until we get this sorted, thanks for reporting it to us.

P.S. Have you tried the language translation in the top right corner?

We love that, especially when viewing the site in Arabic or Chinese (which also caused layout problems at first).

Lynbarn
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:08 am

The site home page says:

EduGeek : Raspberry Pi educational resources

We've also joined forces with our friends at EduGeek to bring together the raspberry Pi community and 30,000 ICT teachers and IT professionals worldwide. To visit the forums as a guest click HERE, or to register and create your own account click HERE.

er - I may be missing something, but there don't seem to be any hyperlinks at HERE and HERE,  just <strong> tags...

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:15 am

Thank you very much,

FIXED and FIXED

(I think we've been staring at the homepage for so many late nights and weekends that we don't even see the text anymore)

If you come from an educational background you might also want to look at all of the other forums they run here:

http://www.edugeek.net/forums/

The guys at EduGeek have been a massive help to us and are working hard to help support UK ICT staff bring the RasPi into the classroom.

tufty
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:58 am

Turbo-Frambozenbier said:


the browsers on most of these new devices were so good that often the "full" version of the site looked better than the dumbed-down "mobile " version of the site.


You're not joking.  The mobile version is absolutely unusable on the stock 'Andriod' 2.2 browser.  If I could work out how to get a screenshot from my poxy android tablet, I'd show you exactly how broken, but it's like trying to open a modern, java based website using ie5.5/mac

Going back to the "desktop" version works, although the little popup message when doing so is a default INSERT_MESSAGE_HERE.

Personally, I'd dump the mobile version entirely, and fix the layout of the main site to work on smaller screens.  The main thing to do to fix that is removing some of the unnecessary clutter (there's *at least* 585 pixels of vertical stuff using up space at the top of the page, and even more at the bottom - with my default *desktop* browser height I can't tell the difference between pages, clicking on a link returns me to a page that looks *identical* because all I have is the header on screen) and making the width percentage-based rather than being hardcoded 980px.

As for the big pink "Best viewed in Google Chrome" thing – optimising for a particular browser died out in the '90s, and it doesn't even have the decency to go away when you *are* using Chrome.  I won't point out the irony of advertising a web browser that doesn't run on the platform we're talking about.


P.S. Have you tried the language translation in the top right corner?

We love that, especially when viewing the site in Arabic or Chinese (which also caused layout problems at first).


Do you have native Arabic and Chinese speakers on your team?  I'm assuming not, or you probably wouldn't be so hot on it.  Technical translation is hard, and quite simply cannot be done by machine, especially if you're trying to put together a teaching resource.  Sure, it's better than the original babelfishing game, but not that much.

I'm English but bilingual in French, and the French translation is, as they say over here, "n'importe quoi" (or, as Google would have it, "ordures") – "ARM", for example, is translated literally to mean the piece of the body between shoulder and wrist…

Otherwise, good work, it's a very worthwhile project.  Keep at it.

Simon

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:46 am

Hi Tufy, thanks for your feedback. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying and appreciate you taking the time to tell us.

The mobile versions are gone now, I re-enabled them just to show how bad they were and how modern mobile browsers seem to be getting better at diplaying "desktop" content. They will probably stay gone and we'll just work on the template (as you suggest).

We picked the template based on some nice image rotation and slideshow features that we had on previous versions that worked flawlessly on everything WITHOUT requiring flash on hogging cpu resources on older computers. Nice on everything except IE, which randomly broke things which worked perfectly well in every other browser.

Same with some of the google translation tools and othwer modules. Some versions of IE broken, everything else fine. We even had to use a meta tag to fake "IE7" functionaility on some pages a few times too before we gave up trying to IE7, IE8 and IE9 work consitently on the same page.

The "Best viewed in Google Chrome" is a polite way of saying "OMG. Why is IE so badly broken and can't render stuff every other browser can. Please, Please Don't use it". But some people don't have a choice (if the IT department ONLY provide IE)

I don't hink we are the first people to curse IE in this respect!

Yes, the translation is not perfect but it is the best thing we had got at present, any suggestions here would be welcome too maybe we should use "ARM-Platform" instead of "ARM" so it doesn't translate literally?

Last thing, and I'm not joking about this.

I tried to read your post on my iPhone this morning but can only see the left half or left third of the screen no matter how I try to re-size it so I can only read the first few words of each sentance and had to swap my phone screen for a computer with a 24" monitor.

Trying to get content to work on a 2" screen and a 24" screen simultaneously seems to be causing a few issues for people everywhere.

Once again, thanks for your feedback, we will take it and try and improve the site with it.

mr_x007
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:00 am

Can you maybe crowdsource the translations to the users in some kind of wiki like fashion? It really pains me to see the horrible dutch translations on a site with such a cool dutch name.

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:19 am

That would depend on help from others, we couldn't do all the translations ourselves.

My familily are originally Dutch, but I've only been to Schiphol airport 3 times to catch a connecting flight, so I would be no use at translating English into Dutch!

One interesting thing I have noticed was two Dutch guys, and two German guys each seperately talking technical to each other in English becuase they said it was easier, and some words dont exist in their native language.

At some point we will be PDF'ing articles so maybe we could have multiple translated versions of these, or someone in each country could host a mini version of the content (the content is there for anyone, we actually want people to take it away and work on it)

If anyone wants to help us please get in touch.

tufty
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:29 am

Turbo-Frambozenbier said:


Hi Tufy, thanks for your feedback. I agree with pretty much everything you're saying and appreciate you taking the time to tell us.


No worries.  I was trying not to be too negative, hope that came across


I don't hink we are the first people to curse IE in this respect!


Oh, not at all.  Far from it, in fact.  Better than 60% of web designer time is spent "fixing" rendering under ie (and that's an improvement on the pre-ie7 days). My approach would be to have a conditional based on ie < v7 or something along those lines that puts a message "Site looks like shit?  Use a decent browser" and a link to lynx[1] in the place of "best viewed with…"


Yes, the translation is not perfect but it is the best thing we had got at present, any suggestions here would be welcome too maybe we should use "ARM-Platform" instead of "ARM" so it doesn't translate literally?


"Crowdsourcing" the translation is one option, but that's very much dependent on having decent translators who have the time to spend.  Technical translation is hard to do – I can (and do) do French-English but not vice versa.  My suggestion would be simply to drop it entirely, except where you have people available to do the translations (I'm guessing[2] Dutch shouldn't be a problem) and have a "translations" dropdown on an article-by-article basis.


Trying to get content to work on a 2" screen and a 24" screen simultaneously seems to be causing a few issues for people everywhere.


Yeah, it's horrible, and hard to do.  About the best you can do is try and make your content render nicely on all platforms (for example, there's something that's stopping the desktop site scrolling under the Android 2.2 browser, at least on my tablet) which makes it totally unusable and then rely on the platform itself to allow the user to resize / scroll as necessary.  And maybe make any interactive bits compatible with mobile-optimised forum apps and so on.

Simon

[1] because even lynx is better than ie

[2] incorrectly.

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meltwater
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:57 am

I've added links on the community section of the wiki, hope that is ok.
______________
http://www.themagpi.com/
A Magazine for Raspberry Pi Users
Read Online or Download for Free.

My new book: goo.gl/dmVtsc

Meltwater's Pi Hardware - pihardware.com

Like the MagPi? @TheMagP1 @TheMagPiTeam

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:02 am

Thats great thanks,

Could you also ask for help with articles as well please?

I had a horrible thought this morning:

What if I'm sat on the toilet when the email about RasPis going on sale is sent, and we end up trying to run a RasPi site withourt actually having a RasPi!

Community input and articles anre going to be key (especially as we all gave full time jobs to do as well as the site)

BTW could the wiki host translated articles or do you want us to look into that (as well as the badly translated English content)?

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zag
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:11 am

Hey mate, good to see you over here

I'm also a fellow edugeeker.

I started my own forums (specifically for our school programming classes) which I hope provides a faster community than the official sites.

I also post of edugeek so will get involved over there.
Unofficial Raspberry Pi Forums - www.raspberrypiforums.com

geeus
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:24 am

Big double thumbs up for this one
Gee The Rabid Inventor :)

alpaca
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:26 am

A few remarks too:

What kind of people is this aimed to? ICT teachers? Students? Hobbyists?

Because if your aim is to be a knowledge repository, the format is OK, but compared to a wiki, it has quite a high threshold. (you have to sit up and write a full article instead of adding small changes). Certainly in the first few months, a lot of information will be uncovered/created by fresh new owners of the Rpi, and I don't really see the use of cramming a certain technique in articles without proofreading/correcting by an active community (and no, comments are not a good idea; they get overlooked too easily.) You have better quality control, on the other hand.

If you aim for students, remember that the ones using your site will be young people making their first steps behind the curtain of Windows (or MacOS). They do not know what an 'OS' is, let alone which linux they have to take (and what the differences between them are). Or what the differences are between a scripting (shell) or program (perl) language...

Don't understand me wrong, this website is a good idea (and a cool name too, we should try to brew it once) but I don't think the information is mature enough to put it hardcoded in a website.

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:43 am

Thanks for your feedback.

I/we are open to everything you say.

What do others think?

Should we start creating a skeleton for these articles on the wiki until we are happy that we have had enough eyeballs looking at them to turn these community reviewed sections into articles?

I thought people might like the idea and fame of creating an article, but frankly I dont care how the content is generated as long as we can get it to the people who need it.

If the wiki is a good place to start, then I am happy to help and create the outline or skeleton for content along with others.

We would almost end up with a two tier format:

1) "Rough and ready" in progress documentation that needs review on the Wiki skeleton

and a

2) "Finished article or PDF HOWTO" for people who just need a beginners guide they can print out and follow.

The added benefit would be that once the in-progress-wiki-version was signed off, we could then crowdsource the translations knowing that it was good-to-go.

What does everyone else think?

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Quick Update on Frambozenbier.org:

Based on the comments you all kindly submitted about the website we have done a few quick fixes.

"Big logo" has gone, "Best viewed in" has gone, text size and text spacing has been adjusted and the website will be going on a Low-Gi diet later this week. After that we will have a look at sorting out a better experience for mobile users.

In order to fully complete our testing of the new screen layout please could someone send me:

1) iPad

2) iPad2

3) iPad3

4) Asus Transformer

5) Galaxy Tab

6) 60" LED TV with HDMI connector

7) RasPi developement board #01

Thats all for now,

Thanks

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Gert van Loo
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:30 pm

Humm......

I hope you want screen shots of those, not the real devices, as I have run out of Alpha boards.

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:05 pm

I wonder how many people think that your real name is "Gert Board"?

You could become a noun or a symbol over the next few years.

"¬8| The artist formerly known as Gert"

(I wonder how well this translate from "English sense of humour")

Turbo-Frambozenbier
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:15 am

Hi all,

@steady_bear, hippy,tufty & lynbarn:

We took all of your comments and now have a new version of the site which is much more compact and should work better with mobiles and tablets. The "Latest News" text could probably do to be bigger but otherwise most of the quick fixes have been done. If you find any problems or have any more suggestions please report them back.

http://www.frambozenbier.org

@mr_007, meltwater & alpaca:

Do we need a new forum thread to pick up the "community generated documentation" discussion we had previously in this thread?

I think the documentation being:

1) "born" on the wiki

2) peer reviewed on the wiki (and approved)

3) then translated by community members

4) then published as a full article or PDF

...is a good place to start, unless anyone has any more suggestions?

vikpaw
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Tue Jan 24, 2012 5:46 am

Turbo-Frambozenbier said:


Yes, its being changed now by one of the other site admins (ZeroHour).

Thanks.


Hey, is ZeroHour managing the Frambozenbier.org site too?

The typo on Build-Andriod is still there, and the underlying link, has an extra 'L'.

I'm an EduGeek so will mention it to him.

Keep up the good work, and if there's anything i can do there or here, just holler

tufty
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Re: Frambozenbier - The raspberry homebrew community

Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:55 am

Works better on android 2.2. Still needs to go on a diet.

Simon

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