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Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:28 pm
by pi-tastic
Do you guys enjoy using the keyboard as much as me?
I bought 2 !!!

:-D

Picked up a mouse too! seems to work pretty good.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm
by aBUGSworstnightmare
I have three sets in total: two red ones and one black. Mices work nice, as keyboard too.
Pretty much enjoy the USB hub which makes life a little easier.

Anyhow, would have been great if the keyboard chassis would have allowed to mount a Pi3A+ inside (with the required openings i.e. By breakout taps). Should have been possible from the injection mold POV.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:42 pm
by Andyroo
aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm
...
Anyhow, would have been great if the keyboard chassis would have allowed to mount a Pi3A+ inside (with the required openings i.e. By breakout taps). Should have been possible from the injection mold POV.
Like this https://blog.pimoroni.com/putting-a-ras ... -keyboard/ ?

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:45 pm
by aBUGSworstnightmare
Andyroo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:42 pm
aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:40 pm
...
Anyhow, would have been great if the keyboard chassis would have allowed to mount a Pi3A+ inside (with the required openings i.e. By breakout taps). Should have been possible from the injection mold POV.
Like this https://blog.pimoroni.com/putting-a-ras ... -keyboard/ ?
yes, but without having to 'Dremel' the plastic parts. Yes, pretty simple but having the mold designed for this would have made it darn easy...

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:16 pm
by Andyroo
Tempted to say ‘it’s a hackers solution’ but I won’t :lol:

Neat idea - maybe a market for a mk2 keyboard - main issue is that moulding is not cheap though and this would be a specialist need I think due to the lack of access to the GPIO else it would have been great for schools etc as an all in one solution to drop on a students desk.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:18 pm
by pi-tastic
wow that is pretty interesting!!!! hahaha
Screenshot from 2019-08-14 15-16-20.jpg
Screenshot from 2019-08-14 15-16-20.jpg (65.86 KiB) Viewed 921 times

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:23 pm
by Andyroo
All it needs is a small SSD via USB in a special mount (to plug directly in) and I would be set :D

Not keen on the ‘scrape the trace’ part though...

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:24 pm
by aBUGSworstnightmare
Andyroo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:16 pm
Tempted to say ‘it’s a hackers solution’ but I won’t :lol:

Neat idea - maybe a market for a mk2 keyboard - main issue is that moulding is not cheap though and this would be a specialist need I think due to the lack of access to the GPIO else it would have been great for schools etc as an all in one solution to drop on a students desk.
turn the Pi the other way round. Would give possibility to access GPIO as well as DSI and CSI connector (if you make cutouts inro the plastic. uSD can be put into card extender and located at convinient place.

Yes, it's a hackers solution. Maybe i put one of my keyboards in touch with my CNC router and or Dremel one day ....

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:26 pm
by pi-tastic
a lithium cell, a small fan, maybe a speaker and a mic

almost a whole system /w battery back up :)

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm
by W. H. Heydt
pi-tastic wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:28 pm
Do you guys enjoy using the keyboard as much as me?
I bought 2 !!!

:-D

Picked up a mouse too! seems to work pretty good.
The keyboards are more or less okay for casual use but for serious typists they are far from ideal. Or as my wife said when I had her try the "touch", "No! Never going to use that!" The difference being that she used to make her living typing and--at the time--tested at 100wpm. At home, both of us use Unicomp keyboards. This is not to say that the keyboard isn't okay for kids or usage with a Pi that takes minimal typing. That's why I have one in each color scheme and carry the black one to go with my portable system.

The inclusion of a USB hub is a good feature and works well with the RPF mouse, as that has a fairly short cable. I also like that the connector cable for the keyboard isn't permanently attach and can--therefore--be replaced either because it needs to be or if the length doesn't suit the usage. It also makes the keyboard easier to pack away.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:28 pm
by Andyroo
Think you need the numeric pad version for all of that - ummm maybe a marketing opportunity :roll:

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:09 pm
by pi-tastic
1.jpg
1.jpg (56.45 KiB) Viewed 875 times
this or a full size keyboard could hold more hacks? haha

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:22 pm
by jdb
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm

The keyboards are more or less okay for casual use but for serious typists they are far from ideal. Or as my wife said when I had her try the "touch", "No! Never going to use that!" The difference being that she used to make her living typing and--at the time--tested at 100wpm. At home, both of us use Unicomp keyboards. This is not to say that the keyboard isn't okay for kids or usage with a Pi that takes minimal typing. That's why I have one in each color scheme and carry the black one to go with my portable system.

The inclusion of a USB hub is a good feature and works well with the RPF mouse, as that has a fairly short cable. I also like that the connector cable for the keyboard isn't permanently attach and can--therefore--be replaced either because it needs to be or if the length doesn't suit the usage. It also makes the keyboard easier to pack away.
I'd say it rates somewhere between a big-name manufacturer membrane keyboard that has squishy tactile feedback and a mid-level gaming mechanical keyboard. It's a hell of a lot better than most miniature cheap keyboards - N-key rollover, no rattle on the various larger buttons, smooth key travel.

This was kinda the design intent - make a keyboard that's cheap and doesn't suck. I think we succeeded.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:34 pm
by pi-tastic
price seems to be pretty reasonable!
i am enjoying typing on it.

I was using a full size apple aluminum, it took up too much space on my desk.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:15 pm
by alphanumeric
Andyroo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:28 pm
Think you need the numeric pad version for all of that - ummm maybe a marketing opportunity :roll:
For those that need or want one. Me, personally, I'd much rather have a touch pad where the numpad would normally be.
Like the Logitech K400 keyboard. I use that a lot on my Pi's. I will admit to not being a mouse type of guy. I use trackballs when ever possible.

Something that may also be useful is a USB cord to plug it into a Pi Zero without having to use an adapter. Micro USB to Micro USB.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:13 pm
by W. H. Heydt
alphanumeric wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:15 pm
Andyroo wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:28 pm
Think you need the numeric pad version for all of that - ummm maybe a marketing opportunity :roll:
For those that need or want one. Me, personally, I'd much rather have a touch pad where the numpad would normally be.
Like the Logitech K400 keyboard. I use that a lot on my Pi's. I will admit to not being a mouse type of guy. I use trackballs when ever possible.

Something that may also be useful is a USB cord to plug it into a Pi Zero without having to use an adapter. Micro USB to Micro USB.
This is why differences of opinion make for a variety of products. I truly hate trackpads. I'm not crazy about mice, either. I have a compact keyboard to go with my "travel alarm" (RPF 7" display, Pi2Bv1.1, speakers) that includes a trackball. On my desk at home, I have a Logitech trackball. For setting up Pis for jams, I use Logitech K120 keyboards and Monoprice mice.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:28 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jdb wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:22 pm
I'd say it rates somewhere between a big-name manufacturer membrane keyboard that has squishy tactile feedback and a mid-level gaming mechanical keyboard. It's a hell of a lot better than most miniature cheap keyboards - N-key rollover, no rattle on the various larger buttons, smooth key travel.

This was kinda the design intent - make a keyboard that's cheap and doesn't suck. I think we succeeded.
The price is good (I can get a full Logitech K120 for about $2 less) and the form factor is decent for anyone who doesn't disparately need a numeric keypad. Membrane keyboards generally suck for those who are good typists. That lets out most people right there. If you know anyone who makes their living pounding out text hand them an RPF keyboard and observe the reaction. I will grant that is--for probably 99% of users--an unfair test. That's why it's a reasonable keyboard for the vast majority of Pi uses.

The real issue here is, I think, that keyboards are an area in which personal preference is a major factor and there will always be a population that doesn't like any given solution. Even if you'd gone with high quality mechanical key switches, you'd've had people complaining that the keyboard was too noisy.

The Unicomp keyboards my wife and I favor are built off the original IBM key switch patents for the keyboard for the 5150 PC. The tech was specifically invented to come as close to the 'touch' of an IBM Selectric typewriter as they could with an electronic keybarod, and they largely succeeded. Find any old school typist and ask what they thought of the Selectric for typing on if you've never used one. There was good reason that IBM totally dominated the office typewriter market. They weren't cheap (a wide carriage Selectric II cost $660 in 1972...I know because I bought one), but they were the best typewriters you could buy, and part of that was the keyboard feel.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:29 pm
by W. H. Heydt
pi-tastic wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:34 pm
price seems to be pretty reasonable!
i am enjoying typing on it.

I was using a full size apple aluminum, it took up too much space on my desk.
Well...if you're comparing the Pi keyboard against Apple, no wonder you're happy with it.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:55 pm
by Paul Hutch
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm
At home, both of us use Unicomp keyboards
The finest keyboards I've ever bought, I have one in each work area of my home office connected to KVM's so Unicomp's drive 4 PC's and 3 Pi's.

https://www.pckeyboard.com/
Why purchase an imitator when you can buy the original “Model M”. We have produced the buckling spring “Click” keyboard for IBM and thousands of discriminating users worldwide for 23 years…. Join the many that have made the switch to a much more accurate data entry alternative.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:57 am
by ProDigit
I was more looking for a 1 in all situation, where the keyboard and mouse either connected to a bluetooth dongle (like the Logitech combo I'm using) or to bluetooth, like this portable keyboard I'm using.

An operating system inside a keyboard has been tried before (think Asus EeeKeyboard, that never came to be, or even a few years back, with the Commodore 64!).

But yeah, the Pi foundation could very easily create a Pi keyboard with GPIO pins directly connected to some older pis, still allowing for some form of active cooling to be happening.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:06 am
by jcyr
Paul Hutch wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:55 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm
At home, both of us use Unicomp keyboards
The finest keyboards I've ever bought, I have one in each work area of my home office connected to KVM's so Unicomp's drive 4 PC's and 3 Pi's.

https://www.pckeyboard.com/
Why purchase an imitator when you can buy the original “Model M”. We have produced the buckling spring “Click” keyboard for IBM and thousands of discriminating users worldwide for 23 years…. Join the many that have made the switch to a much more accurate data entry alternative.
I still have one of the original Model F IBM PC keyboards with the 5 pin DIN connector. Best keyboard ever made bar none! One of these days I'll figure out how to interface it to a modern PC.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:44 am
by cspan
jcyr wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:06 am
I still have one of the original Model F IBM PC keyboards with the 5 pin DIN connector. Best keyboard ever made bar none! One of these days I'll figure out how to interface it to a modern PC.
FWIW, I saw this the other day:

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

Definitely not cheap. Hopefully not vaporware.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:45 am
by andrum99
Paul Hutch wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:55 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm
At home, both of us use Unicomp keyboards
The finest keyboards I've ever bought, I have one in each work area of my home office connected to KVM's so Unicomp's drive 4 PC's and 3 Pi's.

https://www.pckeyboard.com/
Why purchase an imitator when you can buy the original “Model M”. We have produced the buckling spring “Click” keyboard for IBM and thousands of discriminating users worldwide for 23 years…. Join the many that have made the switch to a much more accurate data entry alternative.
For some reason they seem to be still using the old Microsoft "flying windows" logo on the winkeys. Although I notice they offer a tux key conversion kit if you prefer a more OSS look.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:47 am
by W. H. Heydt
andrum99 wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:45 am
For some reason they seem to be still using the old Microsoft "flying windows" logo on the winkeys. Although I notice they offer a tux key conversion kit if you prefer a more OSS look.
Or you can do what I did and not have a key there at all. That used to be a standard order, but I think you have to pay for it now.

Re: Official Keyboard and mouse

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:53 am
by cspan
Paul Hutch wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:55 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:27 pm
At home, both of us use Unicomp keyboards
The finest keyboards I've ever bought, I have one in each work area of my home office connected to KVM's so Unicomp's drive 4 PC's and 3 Pi's.

https://www.pckeyboard.com/
I liked that keyboard, but it was not cost-effective. Mine lasted just beyond the warranty period. At the time, I think that was 3 years, so about $30/yr.

Subsequent to that, I went the other direction and bought a $4 Inland from Microcenter. 9 months later, it still works fine, with the one caveat that it turns out I wouldn't have to pay extra to have too-cool-for-school blank keys, like some DAS Keyboards! 2 keys are totally gone and a couple more will soon join them. It even has an area on the backside of the case that looks like it would mount a Pi Zero quite well!

[I should add, the Inland's tactile key feel is better than most of the squishy keyboards I've gotten from major PC manufacturers in the past. It's no clicky keyboard, to be sure, but among cheapies, it's actually quite good.]