carlhung
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:40 pm

I am from Hong Kong.
Have been waiting for so long.
I haven’t still had any chance to buy one.
Sad!

jamesh
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:07 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:14 pm
jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:56 am
hippy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:49 am

Market research companies will be able to give you the answer to that, will be able to explain how they achieve that for their clients. It is not that hard to achieve; it is mostly about how the questions are asked and framed.
At great expense. I am certain that the cost of the research would outweigh any benefit, simply because I do not believe we could have upped production to the levels required to NOT have a demand outstripping supply situation. ie It didn't matter which device was the most popular, production capacity would always be too small. And I doubt market research would be able to give figures on total demand.
You are right. Where limited production capacity means demand will always outstrip supply, and shortages have to be expected, Market Research will have less value.

It could however help ensure that production were building what was most wanted, but if it's all selling anyway, that's good. Even if that might mean profits are down on what they could have been or fewer people are as happy as they would have been.

But at the end of the day it is up to the Foundation to decide what they want to do.
It's all selling, and I think production is mostly 4GB at the moment, but could be wrong.

It's actually the manufacturers, Farnell and RS who decide what to make, although we (Raspberry Pi Trading, not Foundation) obviously talk to them a lot.
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RaTTuS
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:15 pm

carlhung wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:40 pm
I am from Hong Kong.
Have been waiting for so long.
I haven’t still had any chance to buy one.
Sad!
dunno if that helps
https://hk.element14.com/c/embedded-com ... y%20pi%204
https://hken.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=o ... berry+pi+4
How To ask Questions :- http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
WARNING - some parts of this post may be erroneous YMMV

1QC43qbL5FySu2Pi51vGqKqxy3UiJgukSX
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scruss
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:16 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:56 am
At great expense. I am certain that the cost of the research would outweigh any benefit, …
Market research also requires experience from other companies. Since the Raspberry Pi Foundation/Raspberry Pi Trading Ltd are the market makers¹, any consultants would be asking you what you already know.

---
¹: face it, every other board is marketed as a "Raspberry Pi Killer", so when you move, the market follows. Must be a nice position to be in.
‘Remember the Golden Rule of Selling: “Do not resort to violence.”’ — McGlashan.

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:28 pm

scruss wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:16 pm
face it, every other board is marketed as a "Raspberry Pi Killer", so when you move, the market follows. Must be a nice position to be in.
Not been so much chatter like that recently....
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:06 pm

It's not just Pis with long delivery dates. My local supermarket (mid-market brand, not one of the el-cheapos) had a space where grapefruit juice should be. "Stock expected 27th September" :!: :x :o :shock: :( :cry: :evil:
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:56 pm

RaTTuS wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:15 pm
dunno if that helps
...
https://hken.rs-online.com/web/c/?sra=o ... berry+pi+4
"On back order for despatch 02/01/2020" Image

Pimoroni has 35 in stock at the time of this post...
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:59 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am
So, why DO people want the 4GB, when the 2GB would do the job?
Just to provide another data point...

Together with some other people, I run a table top gaming convention (DunDraCon). I run ConReg. The "back office" is a pair of SBCs running a replicated database (I *really* don't like single points of failure). To upgrade those "servers" I plan to use Pi4B4 boards. They will have attached SSDs for mass storage. I want to have a third system for a test & development image.

For the "front desk" (where data is entered even though the actual program run on the "servers"), I am looking at either upgrading the current Pi2Bv1.1 to Pi2Bv1.2 or Pi4B1 boards. All they really have to do is run PuTTY on the GUI desktop, so not a lot of memory is needed. Since they started out a Model A Pis, you can see that the system requirements are pretty low.

For the Pi attached to a WD PiDrive, the system my grandson uses and possibly and "everything but the on line game that requires Windows" I'm planning to use Pi2B2 boards.

On the whole, unless the software requirements grow substantially in the next 2 or 3 years, it will be a Pi5B or Pi6B before I need to even consider upgrading any of that.

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:02 pm

Bakul Shah wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:55 am
So US folks, if you order from them, please be very very sure you're not going to cancel your order and double check everything! Meanwhile if anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area wants a Pi4b 4GB in about 12-15 days, you can buy it from me for the price I paid!
Please send me e-mail... whheydt AT hotmail DOT com. I live in Vallejo.

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:16 pm

hippy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:49 am
It's the same as why buy a 64GB or 32GB SD Card when 16GB or 8GB will do ? It's only when one comes to need that extra does one find it was false economy to have bought smaller than one now needs.
Nice analogy. I must be out on some tail or other because I *do* buy 8GB and 16GB SD cards, usually in 5-packs or 10-packs. Back in the beginning, I ran Pis on 4GB SD cards, but the "full" Raspbian hasn't been able to fit in that space for several years. I even picked up a coupe of 2GB cards in order to build a Lite image for loading to a CM, where it could be expanded to the full 4GB.

Back on the Pis themselves... It may matter if someone is buying a single PI, either for something specific just doing....whatever...with. In that case, buying the 4GB model is a good plan. It puts the buyer in a position to anything that a Pi can do. On the other hand, if one plans to be buying several Pis for various uses, then a closer consideration about what is needed/desired for any given use could lead to picking a smaller memory model...and then if one has guessed wrong, switching Pis around as needed becomes a viable selection means.

Since I'm looking at anywhere from 6 to 12 Pi4Bs, I can be both patient--in the waiting for supply to catch up with demand--and selective.

I may be an outlier to your thesis.

hippy
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:40 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 5:16 pm
hippy wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:49 am
It's the same as why buy a 64GB or 32GB SD Card when 16GB or 8GB will do ? It's only when one comes to need that extra does one find it was false economy to have bought smaller than one now needs.
Nice analogy. I must be out on some tail or other because I *do* buy 8GB and 16GB SD cards, usually in 5-packs or 10-packs.
Me too, and I was doing just fine, with plenty of spare capacity. Then someone mentioned RISC-V. That attracted my interest, and then I needed to build a GCC cross-compiler, and that requires 12GB of free disk space :shock:

I never saw that coming. Now I buy 64GB and hope that's more than I'll ever need.

MisterEd
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:32 pm

Nuncio wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:18 am
I ordered mine Sat July 27 and just got it yesterday 1 Aug
From CanaKit
I ordered the 4GB model on the day it was announced (June 24th) from CanaKit but did not get it until July 24th. By the time I ordered it at 9pm CDT the backlog was probably already pretty large. It is ironic that I only got mine a week before ylou did. Of course I did order the Starter Kit. I don't know if that made any difference.

BTW, I forgot. I paid for expedited shipping from CanaKit and got it in two days. If I had selected standard shipping I might not have gotten it until this week.
Last edited by MisterEd on Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:33 pm

davidcoton wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:06 pm
It's not just Pis with long delivery dates. My local supermarket (mid-market brand, not one of the el-cheapos) had a space where grapefruit juice should be. "Stock expected 27th September" :!: :x :o :shock: :( :cry: :evil:
Someone mucked up the shelf edge label (aka SEL). At least your local supermarket is open. The one round the corner where my wife works is closed until Aug 22nd for a complete refit. So it's not just the grapefruit juice that's on back-order ALL stock in the store has been removed for the duration.
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:51 pm

I'm not allowed to drink Grapefruit juice, which is a pity because I really like it.

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:59 pm

rpdom wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 6:51 pm
I'm not allowed to drink Grapefruit juice, which is a pity because I really like it.
Sigh... Me, too. Interacts with drugs prescribed for you?

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:00 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:56 pm
Pimoroni has 35 in stock at the time of this post...
That didn't take long (only 1 left).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

Bakul Shah
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:19 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am
So, why DO people want the 4GB, when the 2GB would do the job?
The steady state of disks is always full — Ken Thompson[1]

1 or 2GB is more than enough for most single purpose embedded computers but not for a general purpose computer where you may run a browser, a word processor, an email client, a pdf viewer, a video player etc. $20 seems like a very good deal to “futureproof” your purchase a bit.

Pi4b 4GB may become your fastest selling board yet. But for a runaway success like this even with a market study it would’ve been difficult to predict how to plan for production capacity.

[1] though this is no longer true for storage, it being so cheap these days.

webbsmurfen
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:04 pm

jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am

So, why DO people want the 4GB, when the 2GB would do the job?
The answer to that is multitasking i think, and a whole lot a windows open.. + Discord and facebook and what not.. More ram isn't always better.. but at least youre ready for the future.

For me it was all about the possibilities to experiment..

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Fri Aug 02, 2019 9:14 pm

scruss wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 2:16 pm

¹: face it, every other board is marketed as a "Raspberry Pi Killer", so when you move, the market follows. Must be a nice position to be in.
Yeah there are faster boards out there.. Tose sucks, due to the narrow range of hats, kits, cases, or components/robots. Also one reason for most of board to suck is the lack of good support.. in addition, free of charge.

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:22 am

There's obviously faster things out there. It is my impression, and I think a common one, that nothing touches the price/performance ratio of a Pi (any of them), and moreover it's hard to beat the support and the community at any price. At least once a month my email announces a new "pi killer" but there's precious little information on it and little or no apparent support. They've never seemed too robust, or all that tempting regardless of glowing claims. I've tried a few other SBCs over the years and they're all in the junk box now as there was no useful support forthcoming. The best runner up might be Beagle Bone. I had to use a BBB for a work project. It is better than some, but it's not a Pi.

LONG ago, I used something called a "Blue Earth Micro" based on a 80C51 uC (obviously, a different class of board; more like Arduino) that had a Basic interpreter and was very well and painstakingly documented. Along with Arduino and Teensy those designs were well supported and very useful, but in the SBC segment I think we all know Pi totally dominates its class for a good reason.

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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:09 am

I've had this 4B1 for a month? and it is certainly good enough and probably fine for RPF's mission in schools.
I'm waiting for some 4B4 to make it downunder so I can do some serious compiling stuff.
With a 64GB card I only have 28GB left and I have only been having fun and trying stuff.
The 4B2 is probably going to be good enough for the surfer crowd.

Early adopters and fan boys are probably not the "average" Pi users, most will have adopted Jeremy Clarkson's creed "More power".

I have also tried other SBC's over the years including the 8052AH Basic :)
Only Arduino's come close with the support but they just don't have the power and flexibility of Pi's to run any code in any language.

Now we have Pi4 Desktops, 4GB is double my x86 Linux Mint box, I'm upgrading :lol:
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scaramonga
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:16 am

jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am
So, why DO people want the 4GB, when the 2GB would do the job?
Why do people buy 64Gb RAM for their PC, when 16Gb is more than enough? :)

Because they can ;) I got the 4Gb version also, not that I'll ever need it, but, it's there, and if your 'loaded', like myself, it really doesn't matter one way or the other :D

Fraoch
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:59 am

jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am
So, why DO people want the 4GB, when the 2GB would do the job?
...seems like a lot of responses on this thread are just "bigger is better, so I've got to have bigger"...

The only board available to me when I really wanted it was a 2 GB. I'm not regretting it - I mean, it is nice to have a little extra over default - but seeing how well Buster runs on my 1 GB Pi2 and Pi3B+ and seeing that there's usually 1.5 GB free on my Pi4, well, I could've done fine with a 1 GB if that would have been available.

But, of course, I would always have been thinking "would it be better if I spent that bit extra?"

I can definitely see how the 4 GB would be the most popular. It's excessive for just running Buster, which is nicely optimized to be memory-efficient, but in terms of computers, here in Canada we're talking $45 for the 1 GB Pi4, $60 for the 2 GB and $75 for the 4 GB. More expensive yes, but not a huge difference in terms of computer hardware prices.

And, let's be honest here, if I wanted to do something really intensive, well, I have got other computers as I'm sure everyone here does - a 16 GB Core i7 and still others.

Also in terms of future proofing, by the time my 2 GB Pi4 is seriously underperforming, I'll just get a new Pi6. At this point even my Pi1B runs Buster pretty well, my Pi2 runs it just about perfectly, so even those are not obsolete yet.
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:39 am

Fraoch wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:59 am
jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am
So, why DO people want the 4GB, when the 2GB would do the job?
...seems like a lot of responses on this thread are just "bigger is better, so I've got to have bigger"...
Quite.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc
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Re: 4gb - 4B Demand must be high.

Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:28 pm

jamesh wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:39 am
Fraoch wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 4:59 am
jamesh wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:46 am
So, why DO people want the 4GB, when the 2GB would do the job?
...seems like a lot of responses on this thread are just "bigger is better, so I've got to have bigger"...
Quite.
Part of the demand for 4GB is likely due to its potential as a green desktop replacement, a market niche that is relatively price insensitive and that previous Pi models did not fit before.

Last week I went to the store thinking there was stock, but even the 1GB model had sold out. This week a shipment of 2GB models arrived, so that is what I have. If I had landed the 4GB model, I would try mounting an external USB four-drive BTRFS array on it for use as a file server. I'm hesitant to use the 2GB model for the same purpose: It's neither the best from a price point of view or capability.

Many years ago I met a scientist who drove a different sports car each year. That year he had a Porsche. His approach to computers was both the same and the opposite: Since it is difficult to switch from an old computer to a new one, always buy the most expensive because it will last an additional year and you won't have to switch so often. Future proofing for that additional year is another attraction of the 4GB Pi.

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