MisterEd
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:28 am
Location: Huntsville, AL USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Wed Jul 24, 2019 4:07 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:22 am
HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 4:58 am
Flirc told me they're shipping in 3-4 weeks, 2 weeks ago.
Checked my email before going to bed and found this. Image
flircorder.gif


Thank you for your order from Flirc.tv! We wanted to let you know that your order was shipped via USPS First Class Mail on 7/23/2019.
You can track your package at any time using the link below.

Shipped To:
Hawaiian Pi
0000 STREET ST
ALOHA, OR 00000 US

Track Your Shipment: 000000000000

This shipment includes the following items:
Item # Description Qty
FL-10270 Flirc Raspberry Pi 4 Case 1


It's on its way! Image
pi4-case.jpg


EDIT:
My 4GB Pi4 from Pimoroni has also cleared customs and is in the hands of the US Post Office, so that's racing the Flirc case here. :D

Oh, and my new smartphone is supposed to be delivered today!
I ordered the Flirc case for the Pi 4 on June 29th. It was 3-4 weeks to ship then also. I still have not heard anything. This Friday will be 4 weeks.

Until I get the Flirc case the CanaKit case will have to do. Temps are 72C with the top on and 62C with the top off. Hopefully the Flirc case will do better.

BTW, I just got my PI 4 4GB a couple hours ago. I am posting with it now.

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 4720
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:15 am

Tracking on Flirc case has a delivery date of Friday (Pi4 is still "in transit" with no delivery date).

But my new smartphone arrived today! :D Old one had a seizure and died last week (flash memory errors).
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

User avatar
exartemarte
Posts: 373
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:51 pm
Location: Middle England
Contact: Website

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:00 pm

Re: Fan shim:
exartemarte wrote:
Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:49 am
. . . I have bought one and installed it. It's running and seems to be doing what it says on the tin; somewhat to my surprise, it genuinely is completely silent. It will be interesting to see how it copes with the summer, if we get one.
Update: Hottest few days on record, apparently, and not a hint of overheating. The fan shim is doing its job.

IrishBrewer
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:15 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:28 pm

I got this case that is nice and sturdy and comes with a fan and heatsinks but you might still want to use a fan shim with it to attach the fan so you have access to all of the GPIO pins. I wish that RPF would have made it easier by putting a separate fan header on the board for active cooling, especially on the 4's that seem to run a lot hotter. You can run the fan on 3 or 5V but it is almost silent on 5V so that's what I'm using.

https://www.amazon.com/Miuzei-Raspberry ... ms&sr=1-29

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 4720
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:49 pm

Flirc arrived today (one day early). Still waiting for my 4GB Pi4...

First observation, no ventilation holes in the bottom like on the Pi3 model. Odd choice since the 4 generates more heat. Maybe they weren't effective since there are no vents in the upper case? I'll wait for my 4GB to test because my 2GB is in use at the moment.

Also got another "accessory" for only $21.29.
Order Summary
Item(s) Subtotal: $32.99
Shipping & Handling: $0.00
Lightning Deal: -$10.05
Your Coupon Savings: -$1.65
Total before tax: $21.29
Estimated tax to be collected: $0.00
Grand Total: $21.29
adatassd.jpg
adatassd.jpg (35.79 KiB) Viewed 1715 times

That's less than many 128GB models (and significantly less than a 200GB SanDisk A1 card). :mrgreen:
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

jj_0
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:55 pm

I just received a flirc case. Ran the same test as the guy from Explainingcomputers:

Ambient Temperature: 27.0'C
temp=41.0'C
temp=50.0'C
temp=52.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=56.0'C
temp=57.0'C
temp=59.0'C

The hottest spot on the case that I could find was 41'C.

So this case not only looks beautiful, it also seems to work well.

pfletch101
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:09 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:05 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:49 pm
Flirc arrived today (one day early). Still waiting for my 4GB Pi4...

First observation, no ventilation holes in the bottom like on the Pi3 model. Odd choice since the 4 generates more heat. Maybe they weren't effective since there are no vents in the upper case? I'll wait for my 4GB to test because my 2GB is in use at the moment.
Why would you have ventilation holes? The point of the Flirc case is that the whole of the case effectively becomes the heatsink for the processor, so heat is removed by conduction and convection from its outside surface.

User avatar
Imperf3kt
Posts: 2863
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:16 am
Location: Australia

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:03 pm

As I understand it, the Pi3 Flirc cases had holes for the wifi signal, not ventilation.
55:55:44:44:4C
52:4C:52:42:41

MisterEd
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:28 am
Location: Huntsville, AL USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:39 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:49 pm
Flirc arrived today (one day early). Still waiting for my 4GB Pi4...

First observation, no ventilation holes in the bottom like on the Pi3 model. Odd choice since the 4 generates more heat. Maybe they weren't effective since there are no vents in the upper case? I'll wait for my 4GB to test because my 2GB is in use at the moment.
Strange since on the Flirc website the descriptions for both the Pi 3 and Pi 4 cases both say "small ventilation slots on the bottom help keep the Raspberry Pi cool".

User avatar
HawaiianPi
Posts: 4720
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 am
Location: Aloha, Oregon USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:07 am

pfletch101 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:05 pm
Why would you have ventilation holes? The point of the Flirc case is that the whole of the case effectively becomes the heatsink for the processor, so heat is removed by conduction and convection from its outside surface.
The whole case is not a heatsink, because the bottom is plastic, and on the older versions there were holes in that plastic bottom, not the metal heat conducting top. I have no idea why the Pi4 version doesn't have the holes, so I was just speculating they didn't put holes in the bottom on the new case because they weren't useful with the solid (non-vented) top (no convective air currents without someplace for the air to go).

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:03 pm
As I understand it, the Pi3 Flirc cases had holes for the wifi signal, not ventilation.
No, the plastic bottom (and part of the side by the antenna) would be transparent enough. Holes in the thin plastic would not make a difference.

MisterEd wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:39 pm
Strange since on the Flirc website the descriptions for both the Pi 3 and Pi 4 cases both say "small ventilation slots on the bottom help keep the Raspberry Pi cool".
pi4pi3flirc.jpg
pi4pi3flirc.jpg (23.35 KiB) Viewed 1628 times
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

jj_0
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:38 am

jj_0 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:55 pm
I just received a flirc case. Ran the same test as the guy from Explainingcomputers:

Ambient Temperature: 27.0'C
temp=41.0'C
temp=50.0'C
temp=52.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=56.0'C
temp=57.0'C
temp=59.0'C

The hottest spot on the case that I could find was 41'C.

So this case not only looks beautiful, it also seems to work well.
And running it for 1h11m the highest temperature is 73'C. Highest temperature on the case is 47'C.

Garg435698
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:10 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:51 pm

This is my cooling solution. :)
pi fan.jpg
pi fan.jpg (130.28 KiB) Viewed 1488 times

User avatar
jcyr
Posts: 419
Joined: Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:31 pm
Location: Atlanta

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:44 pm

Garg435698 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:51 pm
This is my cooling solution. :)

pi fan.jpg
Yep. Bottom line, the Pi4 needs forced airflow for cooling regardless of how it's achieved. Odd that the official Pi4 case doesn't accommodate.
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

pfletch101
Posts: 527
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:09 am
Location: Illinois, USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:27 pm

jcyr wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:44 pm
Garg435698 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:51 pm
This is my cooling solution. :)

pi fan.jpg
Yep. Bottom line, the Pi4 needs forced airflow for cooling regardless of how it's achieved. Odd that the official Pi4 case doesn't accommodate.
I would modify the first statement by saying: "If installed in a conventional case, the Pi4 needs..." It would appear from the testing reported above by jj_0 that the Flirc case allows adequate convection cooling. Reportedly also (by Jamesh and others) it does OK if not in a case at all or in an open enclosure (no sides), particularly if mounted on a vertical wall.

PhatFil
Posts: 1406
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:55 pm
Location: Oxford UK

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:58 pm

jj_0 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:38 am
jj_0 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:55 pm
I just received a flirc case. Ran the same test as the guy from Explainingcomputers:

Ambient Temperature: 27.0'C
temp=41.0'C
temp=50.0'C
temp=52.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=56.0'C
temp=57.0'C
temp=59.0'C

The hottest spot on the case that I could find was 41'C.

So this case not only looks beautiful, it also seems to work well.
And running it for 1h11m the highest temperature is 73'C. Highest temperature on the case is 47'C.
73'C sounds pretty close to 80C when i understand throttling will start.
What happens after a few hours of watching hi-def video or browsing add and clickbait covered social media pages if its hitting 73c internally after only 1 hour or so??

cruster
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 7:56 pm

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:14 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:26 am
MPC is good, but metallic copper foam is better.
Now *that* looks very interestng indeed! Thanks for the link :-)

tdimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:35 pm

I've achieved pretty good temperatures ( I think) by using a couple of copper heatsinks inside one of the acrylic style cases available from Amazon. I decided the tiny noisy fan had to go, and so 3d printed a new lid for the pi which will accommodate a 40mm noctua 5v model.

Temps running the same script from explaining computers are as follows :

Ambient : 27.3 degrees
Max CPU temp recorded : 47 degrees

Pretty happy for my first attempt at printing a modification :)

MisterEd
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:28 am
Location: Huntsville, AL USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:52 pm

Interesting reading on the Flirc Blog for July 24th...
When their shipment came in for the Pi 4 cases they had planned to ship them last week. Initial testing had the Pi 4 temps higher than they liked. After they replaced the original pads with arctic cool pads the temps were more acceptable. With the new pads they were able to start shipping this week.

BTW, I could test the Flirc Pi 4 case if they ever send me one. :( It's been 4 weeks now. That's OK for now since my central just went out. I couldn't give it a fair test with an ambient temp of 35C.

Flirc Blog
http://blog.flirc.tv/

jj_0
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:10 am

PhatFil wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:58 pm
jj_0 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:38 am
jj_0 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:55 pm
I just received a flirc case. Ran the same test as the guy from Explainingcomputers:

Ambient Temperature: 27.0'C
temp=41.0'C
temp=50.0'C
temp=52.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=54.0'C
temp=56.0'C
temp=57.0'C
temp=59.0'C

The hottest spot on the case that I could find was 41'C.

So this case not only looks beautiful, it also seems to work well.
And running it for 1h11m the highest temperature is 73'C. Highest temperature on the case is 47'C.
73'C sounds pretty close to 80C when i understand throttling will start.
What happens after a few hours of watching hi-def video or browsing add and clickbait covered social media pages if its hitting 73c internally after only 1 hour or so??
Well, assuming idle temp of 41'C, 73'C is only at 82% of the usable (non-throttling range). I've let the test run overnight for ~10h20m. Highest temp is 71'C, highest temp of case is 49'C. Ambient temperature dropped to 24'C during the night but increased to 26'C during the night.
Image
So it looks like at ~70'C the case is able to keep it stable.

jj_0
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:07 am

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:11 am

tdimike wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:35 pm
I've achieved pretty good temperatures ( I think) by using a couple of copper heatsinks inside one of the acrylic style cases available from Amazon. I decided the tiny noisy fan had to go, and so 3d printed a new lid for the pi which will accommodate a 40mm noctua 5v model.

Temps running the same script from explaining computers are as follows :

Ambient : 27.3 degrees
Max CPU temp recorded : 47 degrees

Pretty happy for my first attempt at printing a modification :)
Nice, is the Noctua fan really as quiet as they say?

tdimike
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:06 pm
Location: Wisconsin

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:39 pm

jj_0 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:11 am
tdimike wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:35 pm
I've achieved pretty good temperatures ( I think) by using a couple of copper heatsinks inside one of the acrylic style cases available from Amazon. I decided the tiny noisy fan had to go, and so 3d printed a new lid for the pi which will accommodate a 40mm noctua 5v model.

Temps running the same script from explaining computers are as follows :

Ambient : 27.3 degrees
Max CPU temp recorded : 47 degrees

Pretty happy for my first attempt at printing a modification :)
Nice, is the Noctua fan really as quiet as they say?

Hi,

All Noctua fans have good acoustic levels, this 5v 40mm one is no exception. It's barely audible when no other computers are running, and with my desktop on - you can't hear it at all.
I'd like to be able to find a decent size copper heatsink that will have more surface area for heat dissipation, but for now this one copes quite well.
I've just tried 1750mhz core, with overvoltage set at 1/2 and temperatures only increased a degree or two over stock clock speed. I'll put this case modification on thingiverse I think, if anyone fancies it.

MisterEd
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:28 am
Location: Huntsville, AL USA

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Jul 27, 2019 4:11 pm

MisterEd wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:52 pm
BTW, I could test the Flirc Pi 4 case if they ever send me one. :( It's been 4 weeks now.
I spoke too soon. I received an email from Flirc on Friday saying they just shipped my order. I am supposed to get it on Monday. I didn't see the email until now because it ended up in my spam folder.

PhatFil
Posts: 1406
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:55 pm
Location: Oxford UK

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:17 pm

jj_0 wrote:
Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:10 am
PhatFil wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:58 pm
jj_0 wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:38 am


And running it for 1h11m the highest temperature is 73'C. Highest temperature on the case is 47'C.
73'C sounds pretty close to 80C when i understand throttling will start.
What happens after a few hours of watching hi-def video or browsing add and clickbait covered social media pages if its hitting 73c internally after only 1 hour or so??
Well, assuming idle temp of 41'C, 73'C is only at 82% of the usable (non-throttling range). I've let the test run overnight for ~10h20m. Highest temp is 71'C, highest temp of case is 49'C. Ambient temperature dropped to 24'C during the night but increased to 26'C during the night.
Image
So it looks like at ~70'C the case is able to keep it stable.

ok you have convinced me... great response btw..

chipace
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:56 am
Location: brown paper bag in a septic tank

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:54 pm

I did 30 minutes of a53burn using a heatsink with no fan and did not get above 75C. It is taller than what I would have liked, and I have to use a header extender when I want to connect a hat. I leave the top of my case off for cooling.

$2 for the heatsink
https://www.adafruit.com/product/3082

$2 for the header extender
https://www.adafruit.com/product/1112

The extender is also very useful for keeping many individual wire connections in-place when I remove my RPi for another project... I just pull the extender off the RPi and leave it connected to the wires.

Philosophically I can't spend more than $4 for cooling when the RPi4 costs $35.

chipace
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:56 am
Location: brown paper bag in a septic tank

Re: Pi4 Cooling

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:15 pm

I started to adjust the overclocking of my RPi4 and I can easily get it to thermal throttle now. At 1.7GHz I will thermal throttle within 1 minute of starting a53burn. I really like running at 1.7GHz as I can see a measurable difference in performance when loading big programs.
At low load the cpu runs at 600MHz.

/boot/config.txt
arm_freq=1700

sudo cat /sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_cur_freq
600000
sudo cat /sys/bus/cpu/devices/cpu0/cpufreq/cpuinfo_max_freq
1700000

If people are keeping their RPi4 on heavy load frequently, maybe they should move to an Intel or AMD board.

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