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hardwaremack-orginal
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PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:12 pm

you get extra points if you access the forum with elinks lol :)

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wh7qq
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:34 am

Give me a break...did this with a 3B months ago...ran that way for months and it was OK so long as I didn't open too many browser tabs. A 4B would be no challenge at all but I recommend at least 2G of RAM for all but the masochistic.

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hardwaremack-orginal
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:39 am

I already know I can do it with the 3b+. I own 3, bought 4. One is inside the official touch screen.
i just got that one upgraded to buster today.

I am going to make a bold statement in regards to the PI4B 1gig,2,4 models.
I think there is more going on then just a ram chip swap... I originally bought the 1gig as it was all they had.
i used it and it got mega hot, and was acting slow... and would occasionally crash too.
it was basically just funky.... I took it back and got the 2gig and it also gets hot when i am working it hard....
but the 2gig version works perfect, not even one crash. They both started out with a freshly formatted sd card with noobs.
the boot install of noobs is great, right in there i could choose to install to my 32 gig samsung fit usb3.1 drive.

and to go with the 3B+ and the PI4B, Raspbian is a really great os!
installed Exfat support, Gnome system monitor, also for what ever reasons Gnome system monitor opened causes the cpu to stay at 1.5ghz. i installed nmon, elinks as well...

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Gavinmc42
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:55 am

Yep the 3B+ was good but the Pi4 is better, much better.
But now the issue is storage, as a desktop I need much more storage.
32GB uSD is just not enough.
Been using a 4B1 for more than a week and had no heat issues as I put a small heatsink on it.

Once the 4B4 is back in stock local one of those will be my next home PC with externally powered HD.
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

pik33
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:03 am

I do this now, but as I experiment (heavy) with low level programming and overclocking, I still need a PC to repair my RPi4s SD card after the disaster I made to it and this is the main purpose for this PC now.

jahboater
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:07 am

pik33 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:03 am
I do this now, but as I experiment (heavy) with low level programming and overclocking, I still need a PC to repair my RPi4s SD card after the disaster I made to it and this is the main purpose for this PC now.
Could you just have a second working SD card? Then you can use the Pi to fix any problems.

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DAI-X
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:06 am

I have been using a Pi 2B as my main PC for 18 months.

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Gavinmc42
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:35 am

I have been using a Pi 2B as my main PC for 18 months.
The new version?
I'm dancing on Rainbows.
Raspberries are not Apples or Oranges

jamesh
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:37 am

hardwaremack-orginal wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:39 am
I already know I can do it with the 3b+. I own 3, bought 4. One is inside the official touch screen.
i just got that one upgraded to buster today.

I am going to make a bold statement in regards to the PI4B 1gig,2,4 models.
I think there is more going on then just a ram chip swap... I originally bought the 1gig as it was all they had.
i used it and it got mega hot, and was acting slow... and would occasionally crash too.
it was basically just funky.... I took it back and got the 2gig and it also gets hot when i am working it hard....
but the 2gig version works perfect, not even one crash. They both started out with a freshly formatted sd card with noobs.
the boot install of noobs is great, right in there i could choose to install to my 32 gig samsung fit usb3.1 drive.

and to go with the 3B+ and the PI4B, Raspbian is a really great os!
installed Exfat support, Gnome system monitor, also for what ever reasons Gnome system monitor opened causes the cpu to stay at 1.5ghz. i installed nmon, elinks as well...
Only difference is the memory.
Principal Software Engineer at Raspberry Pi (Trading) Ltd.
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DAI-X
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:51 am

I have been using a Pi 2B as my main PC for 18 months.
The new version?
No, the original 2B....! Its a bit painful at times and sometimes the desktop freezes and I've had to SSH in to kill processes to get it back.

I'm just preparing my 4B to take over its tasks, I'm looking forward to it to be honest. Should be a quite significant improvement

Musketeer
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:35 am

Precisely mine sit: got old 2 and thinking about replacing it wit 4!

+ got Intel J3710/N3710 or some-such netbook + 200 GB IDE with Ubuntu.
Linux is like woman - both wants 180 % of your time...
You want speed Java 9.8x? Throw it out of some Window(s)!
My girlfriend is terribly unmature - she always sinks my boats in bathtub!

jcyr
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:23 pm

DAI-X wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:06 am
I have been using a Pi 2B as my main PC for 18 months.
Not possible here. Won't run Quicken, Photoshop, Quartus, PSoC Creator, and a bunch of other daily use programs. Some of these aren't even ported to Linux on Intel.
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

Musketeer
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:26 pm

Moyt, I am SO unhappy for you! :o :evil:
Linux is like woman - both wants 180 % of your time...
You want speed Java 9.8x? Throw it out of some Window(s)!
My girlfriend is terribly unmature - she always sinks my boats in bathtub!

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PeterO
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:27 pm

jcyr wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:23 pm
DAI-X wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:06 am
I have been using a Pi 2B as my main PC for 18 months.
Not possible here. Won't run Quicken, Photoshop, Quartus, PSoC Creator, and a bunch of other daily use programs. Some of these aren't even ported to Linux on Intel.
Why are you telling us this ? We're not interested in what Windows users do :lol:
PeterO
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Musketeer
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:31 pm

Sure! If someone REALLY loves Pis, he changes his occupation even! :idea:
Linux is like woman - both wants 180 % of your time...
You want speed Java 9.8x? Throw it out of some Window(s)!
My girlfriend is terribly unmature - she always sinks my boats in bathtub!

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rpdom
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:03 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:31 pm
Sure! If someone REALLY loves Pis, he changes his occupation even! :idea:
Sounds good to me. :)

Heater
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:21 pm

It's a valid concern. Lot's of legacy Windows applications do not run on Linux never mind within the limits of the Pi.

My plan since 1997 has been: Don't do that. If it does not run on Linux it does not get used. Makes life much easier.

It does mean one has to choose ones work to fit the plan. But that turns out to lead to all kind of interesting things that likely would not have happened otherwise.

So:

Quicken - No idea. I let the book keeper keep care of the books. Mrs Heater has a huge Casio printing calculator :)

Photoshop - If I can't do it in GIMP or Inkscape it does not get done.

Quartus - That is a pain. Luckily Quartus runs on Linux. It's still a pain anyway, horrible slow, bloated, complex monster that it is. Also luckily we have Icarus and/or the Verilator for compiling/simulating Verilog which makes life much quicker and easier. And we now have Open Source tools for synthesis for some Lattice devices. Also luckily Intel bought Altera so I don't much want to use that anymore anyway.

PSoC Creator - Hmm... I have a Cypress dev board here that I won at the San Jose Sensors Expo. Gathering dust.

What I would really miss is LTSpice from Analog Devices. A great Spice tool but Windows only. Luckily it runs perfectly under Wine. Unluckily we can't use Wine on the Pi.

When I deleted the Windows partition from my PC in 1997 a good friend found he could not use my PC anymore. "But Heater", he whined plaintively, "You need Windows"...
Memory in C++ is a leaky abstraction .

jcyr
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:03 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:21 pm
It's a valid concern. Lot's of legacy Windows applications do not run on Linux never mind within the limits of the Pi.

My plan since 1997 has been: Don't do that. If it does not run on Linux it does not get used. Makes life much easier.

It does mean one has to choose ones work to fit the plan. But that turns out to lead to all kind of interesting things that likely would not have happened otherwise.

So:

Quicken - No idea. I let the book keeper keep care of the books. Mrs Heater has a huge Casio printing calculator :)

Photoshop - If I can't do it in GIMP or Inkscape it does not get done.

Quartus - That is a pain. Luckily Quartus runs on Linux. It's still a pain anyway, horrible slow, bloated, complex monster that it is. Also luckily we have Icarus and/or the Verilator for compiling/simulating Verilog which makes life much quicker and easier. And we now have Open Source tools for synthesis for some Lattice devices. Also luckily Intel bought Altera so I don't much want to use that anymore anyway.

PSoC Creator - Hmm... I have a Cypress dev board here that I won at the San Jose Sensors Expo. Gathering dust.

What I would really miss is LTSpice from Analog Devices. A great Spice tool but Windows only. Luckily it runs perfectly under Wine. Unluckily we can't use Wine on the Pi.

When I deleted the Windows partition from my PC in 1997 a good friend found he could not use my PC anymore. "But Heater", he whined plaintively, "You need Windows"...
Guess I have to be a little more pragmatic.
It's um...uh...well it's kinda like...and it's got a bit of...

W. H. Heydt
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:31 pm

Nice idea, but it won't work for me. My recreation is an on-line MMO that is capable of using nearly 4GB and only runs on x86 hardware. Even the Mac version has been migrated to use WINE instead of having a native client.

So for that Pi4B is right out.

I am, however, considering migrating pretty much everything else I do to a Pi4B once USB booting is working and a few more of the glitches are ironed out. For that, I'm considering taking an official case and drilling an array of holes in the lid and putting a heatsink on the SoC.

thrustpork
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:47 pm

I sold my gaming pc after getting my rpi4. Granted I have neglected the thing for the past year after having a kid.

Seriously though, the only real hurdle I had was compiling a slicer for my 3D printer. I’m all set up now.

Musketeer
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:50 pm

There is a way - connect 10k Zeros and make them to supa-PC + use virtual x86/64 CPU! :idea:

Basic, Watson!
Linux is like woman - both wants 180 % of your time...
You want speed Java 9.8x? Throw it out of some Window(s)!
My girlfriend is terribly unmature - she always sinks my boats in bathtub!

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rpdom
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:53 pm

Musketeer wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:50 pm
There is a way - connect 10k Zeros and make them to supa-PC + use virtual x86/64 CPU! :idea:

Basic, Watson!
So how would you do that? What software would you use? How would you interconnect them?

Silly idea.

thatchunkylad198966
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:58 pm

Yeah, well; I beat ya to it. I got my Pi 4 over a week an half ago and it's only used as my desktop (web browsing, watching movies etc) and it's handling it fine. probably could be faster if I could boot from USB3 but hopefully that's released some time in the future.

Right now, I'm happy; gaming is done on my PS4 Pro. watching movies/browsing the web is now done on my Pi 4. :mrgreen:
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

Musketeer
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:16 pm

rpdom wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:53 pm
Musketeer wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:50 pm
There is a way - connect 10k Zeros and make them to supa-PC + use virtual x86/64 CPU! :idea:

Basic, Watson!
So how would you do that? What software would you use? How would you interconnect them?

Silly idea.
Just sum outta box thinkin! O;-)
Linux is like woman - both wants 180 % of your time...
You want speed Java 9.8x? Throw it out of some Window(s)!
My girlfriend is terribly unmature - she always sinks my boats in bathtub!

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clicky
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Re: PI4B and Raspbian challenge - Use as main computer a fortnight.

Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:39 pm

Heater wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:21 pm
It's a valid concern. Lot's of legacy Windows applications do not run on Linux never mind within the limits of the Pi.

My plan since 1997 has been: Don't do that. If it does not run on Linux it does not get used. Makes life much easier.

It does mean one has to choose ones work to fit the plan. But that turns out to lead to all kind of interesting things that likely would not have happened otherwise.
I 'left' Windows ~ 2003 - when my computer booted on its own and that was *after* clean install (CD I knew that doesn't have viruses), connected to network only to update, installed Norton (this might have been infected in the first place) from CD I bought exclusively for being on the safe side and only connected back to the 'internet' after all done - and didn't download and install 'unsafe' odd 3rd party software.

I was happily living with Linux (without any windows!) until I got first MBP... and I am happy to return to Linux at any time.

There are only a few things that put me off doing the challenge on my own:
1. Lack of time to set up everything I need before leaving for holiday (.net core running for stupid DB migration project, install MSSQL Linux version - maybe need to even rebuild it so it can work on ARM), ..)
2. Kind of 'critical' phase of the project I'm on right now (2 months before and 2 months from now is going to be far better time)
3. A few bits still not being 100% sorted on Buster - for instance Citrix Receiver not working (due to newer libxerces that's not compatible!)
4. Lack of 'convenience' apps like Slack app, lack of camera (and audio!?) support for Chrome (and not sure what teams would do on ARM, really)
5. Not even looked into replacement of Cisco's VPN (anyconnect) - I understand that openVPN should support it - but look at 1.

BTW DB I would install on separate Pi4 (with only 2GB) - but I got wrong M.2 SSD enclosure for my newly acquired 512GB SSD (got cheaper B key instead of M key adapter) and use 'main' Pi4 for development only. Oh, that would go to that 'headless' Pi4 for DBs as they are ~ 120GB deployed + ~50GB of backups...

Oh, speaking of Windows - I still have need to run one (1!) .exe file on windows (currently running it under VMware) - but worse case scenario I would dust off my old laptop just to install some windows on it to run it on separate network which is not exposed to the world.

Aside of it I've proven (to myself) that Chromium, Thuderbird, Pycharm, VS Code, IntelliJ, GIMP, - all work happily and would be enough for what I need. Fortunately codebase is still small enough that would compile next to several open Chrome tabs + a few from just mentioned list.

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