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pi-tastic
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:03 pm

I am installing Raspbian now to my USB3 device right now through noobs.
The good news is Noobs Network install is only 27m!!!!!!!

:-D
maccaps.com - bringing life to dead electronics.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:27 pm

epoch1970 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:52 am
I rarely use a /swap directory, and wouldn’t touch a windows extended partition with a 10-ft pole.
What about a 8-foot Armenian?

epoch1970
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Location: Paris, France

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:06 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:27 pm
What about a 8-foot Armenian?
Not even a very short Byzantine General.
"S'il n'y a pas de solution, c'est qu'il n'y a pas de problème." Les Shadoks, J. Rouxel

k-pi
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Location: Upper Hale, Surrey, UK.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:26 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:58 pm
Confused, you've bought one to try out, but cannot be bothered to plug in an SD card and actually use it? Or have you tried it but for reasons that elude many, cannot continue to try it out without USB boot? Surely the best approach is to run with SD card until USB boot is available? What specifically is it about running from an SD card is it that stopping you continuing to try it out? After all, running from SD is what the vast majority of users do with no problems whatsoever.
It's quite simple really, I'm looking for a suitable ARM based computer to take over from Intel/AMD for my regular computing tasks, & it needs to work how I work with 'standard' computers, booting from internal HDD/SSD, & external HDD/SSD or pendrives. I can't be doing with the hassle of those micro SD cards, that is why USB booting is so necessary.

You are welcome to continue using micro SD cards, but they are not for me, nor for many others it would seem, it is as simple as that.

Oh, & I need EDID to be read properly, so that I just plug everything in & use it. 8-)

Until that happens, it just isn't suitable, & I certainly couldn't recommend it to others.

Andyroo

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:04 pm

Wish I started selling pop corn at the beginning of this thread...

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clicky
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:55 pm

k-pi wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:26 pm

It's quite simple really, I'm looking for a suitable ARM based computer to take over from Intel/AMD for my regular computing tasks, & it needs to work how I work with 'standard' computers, booting from internal HDD/SSD, & external HDD/SSD or pendrives. I can't be doing with the hassle of those micro SD cards, that is why USB booting is so necessary.

You are welcome to continue using micro SD cards, but they are not for me, nor for many others it would seem, it is as simple as that.

Oh, & I need EDID to be read properly, so that I just plug everything in & use it. 8-)

Until that happens, it just isn't suitable, & I certainly couldn't recommend it to others.
What is stopping you doing this: https://www.maketecheasier.com/boot-up- ... hard-disk/

It can be any small SD with only one couple of MB partition which will allow any RPi to boot from any USB - including Pi4 from SSD.

If you are not doing it onlyl as a matter of principle then why are you complaining? If you didn't know (after 8 pages of this thread) - then just follow that simple tutorial above (BTW that's the first I googled and followed myself)...

If you are not capable or prepared to do so - why don't you just go and fetch some other ARM based computer?

RonR
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:19 pm

clicky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:55 pm
What is stopping you doing this: https://www.maketecheasier.com/boot-up- ... hard-disk/

Or much much easier, this: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy

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thagrol
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:45 pm

clicky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:55 pm
What is stopping you doing this: https://www.maketecheasier.com/boot-up- ... hard-disk/
We've been there already. It appears k-pi beleives this thread ia a better use of his/her time than actually applying a solution. Or s/he simply doesn't understand what I and others are proposing s/he do.

I really don't understand their objection to having just the boot partition on SD. It won't slow down the boot process much compared to having it on a USB device and it can trivially be made read only so there's no worry about corruption etc.

Still, it's their Pi. They can use it however they want to, however misguided their choice is.
Attempts to contact me outside of thes forums will be ignored unless signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters

billw
Posts: 404
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:51 pm

RonR wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:19 pm
clicky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:55 pm
What is stopping you doing this: https://www.maketecheasier.com/boot-up- ... hard-disk/

Or much much easier, this: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy
There's what seems to me an even easier way. Sorry for promoting my own program but:
on your booted SD card, plug your USB disk in and, say it shows up as /dev/sda:

Code: Select all

$ git clone https://github.com/billw2/rpi-clone.git 
$ cd rpi-clone
$ sudo cp rpi-clone rpi-clone-setup /usr/local/sbin
$ rpi-clone -l sda
Reboot.

The reboot boots to root on /dev/sda2 and /boot mounted with /dev/sda1.
Later, after upgrading packages, configuring or modifying files in /boot (/dev/sda1) back the USB disk back to the mmcblk0 SD card (if it is still plugged in) so that reboots will still be to USB disk:

Code: Select all

$ rpi-clone -l mmcblk0
--------------------
Later, after the firmware becomes able to boot directly to USB disk, remove the SD card and (without any editing) reboot.

Now after changes you want to backup to another USB disk or SD card in a card reader, don't use the -l option to rpi-clone anymore:

Code: Select all

$ rpi-clone sdb
There are some other complicated setups rpi-clone can handle such as a three partition USB disk cloning from/to a two partition SD card, but that takes a few more steps and/or rpi-clone options which would be confusing to get into when all we want here is a simple way to USB boot.

RonR
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Location: US

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:21 am

billw wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:51 pm
RonR wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:19 pm
clicky wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:55 pm
What is stopping you doing this: https://www.maketecheasier.com/boot-up- ... hard-disk/

Or much much easier, this: Running Raspbian on USB Devices : Made Easy
There's what seems to me an even easier way. Sorry for promoting my own program but:
on your booted SD card, plug your USB disk in and, say it shows up as /dev/sda:

Code: Select all

$ git clone https://github.com/billw2/rpi-clone.git 
$ cd rpi-clone
$ sudo cp rpi-clone rpi-clone-setup /usr/local/sbin
$ rpi-clone -l sda
Reboot.

The reboot boots to root on /dev/sda2 and /boot mounted with /dev/sda1.
Later, after upgrading packages, configuring or modifying files in /boot (/dev/sda1) back the USB disk back to the mmcblk0 SD card (if it is still plugged in) so that reboots will still be to USB disk:

Code: Select all

$ rpi-clone -l mmcblk0
--------------------
Later, after the firmware becomes able to boot directly to USB disk, remove the SD card and (without any editing) reboot.

Now after changes you want to backup to another USB disk or SD card in a card reader, don't use the -l option to rpi-clone anymore:

Code: Select all

$ rpi-clone sdb
There are some other complicated setups rpi-clone can handle such as a three partition USB disk cloning from/to a two partition SD card, but that takes a few more steps and/or rpi-clone options which would be confusing to get into when all we want here is a simple way to USB boot.

For a normal Raspbian installation (Lite or Desktop / .img or NOOBS), I don't think it can get any simpler than:

Code: Select all

./usb-boot
reboot

and you're running on the selected USB device.

bjtheone
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:50 am

k-pi wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:26 pm
jamesh wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:58 pm
Confused, you've bought one to try out, but cannot be bothered to plug in an SD card and actually use it? Or have you tried it but for reasons that elude many, cannot continue to try it out without USB boot? Surely the best approach is to run with SD card until USB boot is available? What specifically is it about running from an SD card is it that stopping you continuing to try it out? After all, running from SD is what the vast majority of users do with no problems whatsoever.
It's quite simple really, I'm looking for a suitable ARM based computer to take over from Intel/AMD for my regular computing tasks, & it needs to work how I work with 'standard' computers, booting from internal HDD/SSD, & external HDD/SSD or pendrives. I can't be doing with the hassle of those micro SD cards, that is why USB booting is so necessary.

You are welcome to continue using micro SD cards, but they are not for me, nor for many others it would seem, it is as simple as that.

Oh, & I need EDID to be read properly, so that I just plug everything in & use it. 8-)

Until that happens, it just isn't suitable, & I certainly couldn't recommend it to others.
And just like that you managed to cross over from opinionated tin foil wearing OCD type, that I am so familiar with being a long standing member of the tribe, to nutter, plain and simple.

If you have a hate on for SD cards, why not overcome you aversion to the icky teeny tiny things once to place one in the SD slot and then run a exceeding simple set of commands (down to ONE SINGLE command if you use Ron's script) and get your USB connected storage supported. You can close your eye and chant "la la la" for the second during boot where if you really are paying attention it might be apparent that it is accessing boot off of the SD, before it loads the OS from the one true storage solution. Everything has been plug and play for me. Admittedly some monitors are not, but the same can be said of my wife's laptop that runs Windows 10, or my Dell that gets excited every single time it changes docking stations and discovers and installs drivers for the exactly same mouse.

billw
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:23 pm

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:04 am

RonR wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 12:21 am
For a normal Raspbian installation (Lite or Desktop / .img or NOOBS), I don't think it can get any simpler than:

Code: Select all

./usb-boot
reboot

and you're running on the selected USB device.
I could have said:

Code: Select all

rpi-clone -l sda
reboot
But it might be useful for some to know that there are other ways that can also allow easily cloning changes back to the SD card from a USB boot.

It's just another way, that's all.

k-pi
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Location: Upper Hale, Surrey, UK.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:17 pm

Get it through your thick heads - this thread is about the RPi4 USB booting - I know how I could boot from a microSD card, I've booted from a microSD card - I don't want to!!!


I just want to boot from USB, on the RPi4, just like I do on my RPi3B/B+/A+

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B.Goode
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:27 pm

pi-tastic wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 5:03 pm
I am installing Raspbian now to my USB3 device right now through noobs.
The good news is Noobs Network install is only 27m!!!!!!!

:-D


Thank you for bringing this feature of the NOOBS Installer to my attention.


(Yes, I was sceptical, and still can't find it mentioned in any NOOBS Installer documentation. But it does indeed function as you describe... )

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DougieLawson
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:40 pm

Oh dear! Someone (who'll be getting a week in the cooler) got angry because they can't find that ancient old 2GB SDCard in the junk drawer where technology goes hiding along with all those lost biro pens.

I've been booting my 2014 RPiB+ that way for nearly five years. No tin-foil hats or unicorns needed.
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

thatchunkylad198966
Posts: 126
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Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:42 pm

What OS's does NOOBS use apart from Raspbian? I might try it if I can have / on the USB.
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:43 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:42 pm
What OS's does NOOBS use apart from Raspbian? I might try it if I can have / on the USB.
Forget NOOBS use PINN.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=142574
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

Any DMs sent on Twitter will be answered next month.

This is a doctor free zone.

fruitoftheloom
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:44 pm

thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:42 pm
What OS's does NOOBS use apart from Raspbian? I might try it if I can have / on the USB.

Use PiNN it has more options:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=142574
Retired disgracefully.....
This at present is my daily "computer" https://www.asus.com/us/Chrome-Devices/Chromebit-CS10/

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:01 pm

k-pi wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:17 pm
I just want to boot from USB, on the RPi4, just like I do on my RPi3B/B+/A+, or are you too thick to understand that! 8-)
I think everyone commenting on the thread understands that. However, you are not the only one who wants the feature and not everyone else who wants it is willing to just set a Pi4B aside until the feature is available.

So, as a courtesy to those that aren't die hard "my way or the highway", some tolerance of other opinions about alternatives or stop gaps is in order.

thatchunkylad198966
Posts: 126
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Location: UK, Birmingham

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:34 pm

DougieLawson wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:43 pm
thatchunkylad198966 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:42 pm
What OS's does NOOBS use apart from Raspbian? I might try it if I can have / on the USB.
Forget NOOBS use PINN.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=142574
Can I have / on the USB though? with PINN?
One man's trash is another man's treasure! :) Pi's I have; Pi Zero, Pi Zero W, Pi 2 x2, Pi 3 x2, Pi 4 4GB x2.

ejolson
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:38 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 2:01 pm
k-pi wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 1:17 pm
I just want to boot from USB, on the RPi4, just like I do on my RPi3B/B+/A+, or are you too thick to understand that! 8-)
I think everyone commenting on the thread understands that. However, you are not the only one who wants the feature and not everyone else who wants it is willing to just set a Pi4B aside until the feature is available.

So, as a courtesy to those that aren't die hard "my way or the highway", some tolerance of other opinions about alternatives or stop gaps is in order.
Although most people are interested in USB root, where all the files necessary for a running system are stored in a USB drive, the title of this thread is USB boot.

USB boot is all about the style in which the initial program load is performed. It has nothing to do with how a running system behaves later. For example, it is possible to boot a Pi 3B+ from USB which later runs from a root filesystem entirely in RAM or mounted over the network.

If, for some reason, a person is interested only in the style of the initial program load rather than the behavior of the running system later, then installing PINN or a BIOS-like bootloader on the SD card is just not the correct style. The USB bootloader needs to be stored in on-board nonvolatile memory instead.

From a practical point of view placing a second-stage boot loader on an SD card increases cost of deployment by about US $2 per Pi. When deploying 1000 devices, this additional cost becomes noticably more than a couple pizzas; however, for numbers under a dozen it is not.

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B.Goode
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Location: UK

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:52 pm

Can I have / on the USB though? with PINN?


So I read the Release Notes to save you having to do it:
V2.3.1a
USB MSD - Supports installing to an external USB storage device
Ref: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... p?t=142574
(That's the post titled STICKY: PINN - An enhanced version of NOOBS.)



Or you could just try it... then you'll know from first hand experience.

vol.2
Posts: 26
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:55 pm

First of all, I wanted to say that I'm happy with all my pis. I had the first model in pre-order and every one since. I think that it's terrible that people are being rude and showing impatience. However, it's really just a sign that the pi in general is starting to reach a wider audience that you are getting hecklers about something like this. Being as such, it was presumptuous to start off marketing the pi 4 as a desktop replacement. As soon as that happens, your pulling yourself out of the hobbyist category that shielded the platform from the kind of criticism that plagues the makers of "desktop computers." Is it right? No, of course not, and it's no reason to be rude. But people suck, and there wasn't really any compelling reason to push the pi 4b as a desktop replacement outside of hubris. And, if you think about the big picture, there wasn't a topical reason to expect the new pi to lack functionality that the last model already had. Sure, the reason has been stated, and it makes perfect sense, but that didn't stop me from spending some hours trying to boot from and SSD like my last pi did out-of-the-box. ;)

W. H. Heydt
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Location: Vallejo, CA (US)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:54 pm

vol.2 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:55 pm
Sure, the reason has been stated, and it makes perfect sense, but that didn't stop me from spending some hours trying to boot from and SSD like my last pi did out-of-the-box. ;)
I really hate to have to state this, but if you spent all that time trying to do USB boot with a Pi4B, it indicates that you didn't "do your homework" before making the attempt(s). It was no secret that this particular feature wasn't there at launch and that it would be some time before it was possible.

epoch1970
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Location: Paris, France

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 usb boot?

Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:12 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:54 pm
vol.2 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:55 pm
Sure, the reason has been stated, and it makes perfect sense, but that didn't stop me from spending some hours trying to boot from and SSD like my last pi did out-of-the-box. ;)
I really hate to have to state this, but if you spent all that time trying to do USB boot with a Pi4B, it indicates that you didn't "do your homework" before making the attempt(s). It was no secret that this particular feature wasn't there at launch and that it would be some time before it was possible.
And I’d call that hubris.
"S'il n'y a pas de solution, c'est qu'il n'y a pas de problème." Les Shadoks, J. Rouxel

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