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Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:52 am
by otalado
I tried the same procedure as it is described for the PI3, i.e adding the program_usb_boot_mode=1 to /boot/config.txt and then rebooting. Checking with
vcgencmd otp_dump | grep 17
did not give expected result but
17:000008b0
Booting from HDD (obviously) did not work.
When I think about it, it is no surprise that it did not work. PI4 is using entirely different chip comparing to PI3 so it was too optimistic (if not plain stupid) that I expected that it'll behave the same way.

Which brings me to ask: does the PI4 have ability to boot from device other than SD card at all? If it does - how we use it?

Kind regards, Vladimir

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:13 am
by rpdom
This issue has already been covered.

The Pi 4B cannot boot from USB or network yet, but because a large part of the boot code is now held in memory on the board an upgrade is being worked on which will allow your Pi 4B to boot from USB disk or network. Until then you will have to have at least part of the bootcode on an SD card.

Putting the options in config.txt have no effect on a Pi 4. One of the good things is that when the code is sorted out, the options will be in eeprom rather than OTP, so they can be turned on and off whenever you desire.

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:37 am
by Gavinmc42
I am seeing lots of posts now from newish posters with low posting numbers.
Is the Pi4 attracting a new audience?

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:45 am
by Heater
Probably.

I suspect there was a lot news around the net about the Pi 4 release. Which would attract the attention of even more people.

I also sometimes suspect there are "fake" newbies turning up to post negative comments about the Pi 4, you know, competitors trying to put a spanner in the works.

But that's probably my paranoia at work.

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:51 am
by Gavinmc42
But that's probably my paranoia at work.
We have the same paranoia, but I am trying to be nice to the noobies.
They probably don't read everything ;)

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:05 am
by ColonelDare
Heater:
I also sometimes suspect there are "fake" newbies turning up to post negative comments about the Pi 4, you know, competitors trying to put a spanner in the works.
Clearly the work of the evil Mekon and his lakeys - the Pi 4 is BRILLIANT, many thanks!, but like Vladimir I was travelling a little too optimistically at first.

Three questions:
o Do we have an estimated ETA for the new boot code?
o If Its going to be long, is there an easyish way for booting from SD card but moving all the working directories to my SSD at boot time.
o Can I be of any help with beta testing? ( I recall excitedly testing the pre-release MSD boot beta (at my own risk!))

Thanks,
Doug (aka Colonel Dare)

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:27 am
by chwe
Heater wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:45 am
I also sometimes suspect there are "fake" newbies turning up to post negative comments about the Pi 4, you know, competitors trying to put a spanner in the works.
yeah, it must definitively be the evil competitor showing up here to say bad things about the RPi. :lol: you guys should lower your tinfoil budget.
otalado wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:52 am
Which brings me to ask: does the PI4 have ability to boot from device other than SD card at all? If it does - how we use it?

Kind regards, Vladimir
Besides having the whole rootfs on an HDD sounds like a bad idea (due to low randomIO from which it will suffer), you can move everything except /boot to a USB storage (actually with USB3 on the new RPi it makes somehow sense to opt for an SSD). The RPi will still boot from the SD card but you should get a nice speedup due to having an increased randomIO from the USB attached SSD. Also the concerns that the SD card might die will be lowered (never faced such issues on my SBCs by buying good quality SD cards but others seem to have problems here).

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 12:21 pm
by k-pi
I think it's the 4GB ram that is interesting people this time around. :D

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:25 pm
by otalado
It seems I asked a question already covered in this forum. I sincerely apologize for that. I did search the forum, but obviously wasn't persistent enough or/and was using 'bad' search terms. Anyway, my question was fully answered (and explained), so thanks you all for your help.
I promise to search more thoroughly before asking a question in the future, as I agree with you that repeating the questions over and over again is just unwelcome noise.

Vladimir

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:30 pm
by rpdom
otalado wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:25 pm
It seems I asked a question already covered in this forum. I sincerely apologize for that. I did search the forum, but obviously wasn't persistent enough or/and was using 'bad' search terms. Anyway, my question was fully answered (and explained), so thanks you all for your help.
I promise to search more thoroughly before asking a question in the future, as I agree with you that repeating the questions over and over again is just unwelcome noise.

Vladimir
Don't worry about it. There is so much stuff in these forumses that it is easy to miss posts or not have an exact match on searches. :)

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:17 pm
by W. H. Heydt
otalado wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:25 pm
It seems I asked a question already covered in this forum. I sincerely apologize for that. I did search the forum, but obviously wasn't persistent enough or/and was using 'bad' search terms. Anyway, my question was fully answered (and explained), so thanks you all for your help.
I promise to search more thoroughly before asking a question in the future, as I agree with you that repeating the questions over and over again is just unwelcome noise.

Vladimir
It was pretty deeply buried in a long thread. I'm not surprised you didn't find it.

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 4:20 pm
by W. H. Heydt
Heater wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:45 am
I also sometimes suspect there are "fake" newbies turning up to post negative comments about the Pi 4, you know, competitors trying to put a spanner in the works.
I suspect that all that will do is result in a lot of broken spanners while the RPT/RPF roll merrily along their way and Pi4Bs rack up massive sales numbers. I even got an e-mail this morning from Pi Hut saying that Pi4Bs (all three versions) were back in stock...but they didn't know for how long.

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:38 am
by Gavinmc42
I suspect that all that will do is result in a lot of broken spanners while the RPT/RPF roll merrily along their way and Pi4Bs rack up massive sales numbers.
I suspect from the number of questions from noobies the Pi4's has grabbed the attention of a new bunch of users.
It is no longer just us fanboys who know the answers for Zero's to 3's buying another Pi or two ;)

Massive numbers might even be a massive understatement.
I will be looking at stock levels to order my next Pi4, usually it is months between orders for me, not a week or so :lol:

HDD/SSD booting is going to interest these new and this old user.
Controlling my impatience will test my patience :lol:

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:22 am
by HawaiianPi
otalado wrote:
Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:52 am
I tried the same procedure as it is described for the PI3, i.e adding the program_usb_boot_mode=1 to /boot/config.txt and then rebooting.
The Pi 4B uses a completely different SoC, and messing with OTP bits using instructions for the older model is not a smart thing to do.

USB boot has not been enabled in launch firmware, but unlike older models, the Pi4 has the bootloader stored in an EPROM, so it can updated to fix things and add new features later. Network and USB booting will be added in a future update. Until then you'll either need to boot from micro SD card, or do it the old school way with /boot on SD and / on the USB drive.

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:08 am
by Gavinmc42
The network boot might be interesting now. once that is going.
A classroom of Pi4's netbooting, should make life a bit better from the IT support side.
A 16 port switch, a server Pi and 15 net boot twin user Pi's = 30 users.
That is a pretty good Public Library setup too.

I think it was jamesh who said there is not much room left in the EEPROM.
Could that mean we end up with few boot EEPROM versions.
One for netbooting, one for SD, one for USB?
Trying to do one that does all of them in one might take longer to make and test.

Other options are BLE, serial and SPI booting.
WiFi booting might require too much memory?

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:41 am
by HawaiianPi
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:08 am
Could that mean we end up with few boot EEPROM versions.
One for netbooting, one for SD, one for USB?
Trying to do one that does all of them in one might take longer to make and test.
I believe they have more room in the EPROM than they had in the older mask ROM. I can't recall the exact numbers, but the Pi4 bootloader should end up much more capable than the bootloader in the older models.

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:06 am
by Gavinmc42
The old ROM boot was 32KB, new EEPROM is 4Mb - 512KB.
I have no idea how they crammed the first one into 32KB.
512KB, could get a RTOS into that :ugeek:

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:47 pm
by radud
This EEPROM is inside or outside 2711? Where exactly is located on raspberry board?
I looked very carefully and I can't locate this chip.

Re: Raspberry PI 4 boot from HDD

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:36 pm
by wildestpixel
radud wrote:
Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:47 pm
This EEPROM is inside or outside 2711? Where exactly is located on raspberry board?
I looked very carefully and I can't locate this chip.
Lol it’s not in a separate chip it’s in soc, am I being kidded for a troller here ?