fruitoftheloom
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:42 pm

thejck wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:35 pm
Hello, I am new to the rasberry pi world but have used other boards.
I have been looking for a device that has dual hdmi outputs for a while.
My use case senario is that I want to send 1 hdmi signal to my 4k hdr tv and the second to my AVR.
I do not want to upgrade to a new 4k receiver. I also like to run my setup with my tv off for music sometimes. so this would be perfect.
Does anyone know if this would be possible witth the new board?
I would prefer to use the libreelec OS if possible but am open to other suggestions. My use case is for a entertainment center so something with KODI is preferred.

The version of Kodi in the Raspbian Buster repositories is not suitable, LibreElec is recommended if you need Kodi Multimedia Software:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 5#p1491476
Retired disgracefully.....

morphious66
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:55 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:16 am
I posted the results of the pidramble benchmarks some days ago (pidramble have been used in MagPi and link the RPi Blog many times iirc)

It is seen at 50MHz and the 'overclock' does nothing. Tested with SanDisk A1 card so far
It nothing earth shattering, if not mostly slower than an overclocked SD on a Pi3.

Edit link back to it.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... k#p1486278

Not one is stretch, Pi4 is buster so not directly comparable for benchmarking.
I'm sure well figure out a way around this, its only a matter of time, as more people receive their boards and start to tinker with them. It might be called something else in Buster. Will have a look once mine arrives.

Thanks for the input!

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 4:26 pm

These are bootup overlays (or similar) and the engineers added that method iirc compared to the other one which knocked out WiFi on the 3B

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:07 pm

Reported the OpenGL texture bug to Mesa, hopefully they know what's wrong and how to fix it. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=111052

bunklung
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:44 pm

jamesh wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:51 pm
thejck wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:35 pm
Hello, I am new to the rasberry pi world but have used other boards.
I have been looking for a device that has dual hdmi outputs for a while.
My use case senario is that I want to send 1 hdmi signal to my 4k hdr tv and the second to my AVR.
I do not want to upgrade to a new 4k receiver. I also like to run my setup with my tv off for music sometimes. so this would be perfect.
Does anyone know if this would be possible witth the new board?
I would prefer to use the libreelec OS if possible but am open to other suggestions. My use case is for a entertainment center so something with KODI is preferred.
I am currently looking at directing HDMI sound to a different port to the video.
Is it possible to have two distinct audio devices, one for each HDMI port and possibly a third with the standard 3.5 output jack?

This would be beneficial for dual seat setups.

Also, does the HDMI port(s) support ARC?

bunklung
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:21 pm

I know some users have really no interest in SD card speeds. However, anyone using this as a desktop to me would be interested in SD card speeds.

Then I started doing some more digging and 50MB/sec seems very slow when you can get a 120GB SSD with an USB/SATA adapter for $30. I can see where size is an issue most people would stick to an SD card.

Now, if you have room for something as small as an SSD drive, the minimal extra money for an SSD seems like a no brainer for 300-500MB/sec speeds. How much is a decent 128GB SD card that will cap out 50MB/sec vs going 120GB SSD?

dsyleixa123
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:39 pm

bunklung wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:21 pm
I know some users have really no interest in SD card speeds. However, anyone using this as a desktop to me would be interested in SD card speeds.

Then I started doing some more digging and 50MB/sec seems very slow when you can get a 120GB SSD with an USB/SATA adapter for $30. I can see where size is an issue most people would stick to an SD card.

Now, if you have room for something as small as an SSD drive, the minimal extra money for an SSD seems like a no brainer for 300-500MB/sec speeds. How much is a decent 128GB SD card that will cap out 50MB/sec vs going 120GB SSD?
I'm actually curious about SD cards of real 50MB/s .
I purchased a 32 GB Samsung SD
specs:
-Class: 10 (UHS-I Class U1)
-Series: EVO (MB-MP32D)
-Storage 32GB
-Features Data Transfer Speed: Up to 48MB/s
but at a test (copying 7000 files of all over 2.2GB to a PC (SATA 3/6G HD) it took 250s (8.7MB/s data transfer).
Copying the same files from a 120GB SSD (USB 2.0) took just 85 sec (26MB/s)
Last edited by dsyleixa123 on Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:40 pm

bunklung wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:21 pm
Now, if you have room for something as small as an SSD drive, the minimal extra money for an SSD seems like a no brainer for 300-500MB/sec speeds. How much is a decent 128GB SD card that will cap out 50MB/sec vs going 120GB SSD?
Absolute max you're going to get with an SSD is 400MB/s becasue the PCIe lane connected to the USB 3 ports is 4Gb/s. In practice, overhead and protocol conversion is going to make it considerably less. I will be running tests...once I get my hands on a Pi4B (it's on order). My guess is that it will top out on the order of 150MB/s, based on some previous tests on other systems. But that's still pretty respectable and an SSD should have a longer working life than an SD card, plus cost/GB favors SSDs for larger capacities (and "larger capacity" can exceed anything in an SD card).

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:25 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:40 pm
bunklung wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:21 pm
Now, if you have room for something as small as an SSD drive, the minimal extra money for an SSD seems like a no brainer for 300-500MB/sec speeds. How much is a decent 128GB SD card that will cap out 50MB/sec vs going 120GB SSD?
Absolute max you're going to get with an SSD is 400MB/s becasue the PCIe lane connected to the USB 3 ports is 4Gb/s. In practice, overhead and protocol conversion is going to make it considerably less. I will be running tests...once I get my hands on a Pi4B (it's on order). My guess is that it will top out on the order of 150MB/s, based on some previous tests on other systems. But that's still pretty respectable and an SSD should have a longer working life than an SD card, plus cost/GB favors SSDs for larger capacities (and "larger capacity" can exceed anything in an SD card).
Just now did:

Code: Select all

sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda1

/dev/sda1:
 Timing cached reads:   950 MB in  2.00 seconds = 474.99 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 624 MB in  3.02 seconds = 206.79 MB/sec
I'm compiling eclipse in the background - highest I've seen is 260MB/sec
That's on https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-3-0-To-C ... 3307890492
plus old 80GB Intel's SSD (series 180 I think)

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bensimmo
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:44 pm

If you want compact and not a bulky SSD dangling off it, get the SanDisk Ultra fit USB3.0/3.1 versions.(Samsung do a similar style)
They are a similar price to their uSD counterpart.

Other than everything being blindingly hot so I can't get the thing out without having to turn it all off and leave it.
It pretty quick.

hdparm = 135.41MB/s (read)
DD benchmark = 61.3MB/s (write)

Trying iozone, I think I just go to the device and run it from a directory
(4k seems about the same as the uSD card, pretty much identical OR I could be doing it wrong). But then they probably use the same thing inside.
Last edited by bensimmo on Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:54 pm

djazz wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:07 pm
Reported the OpenGL texture bug to Mesa, hopefully they know what's wrong and how to fix it. https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=111052
I think that should really be reported to us, on our linux github repo.
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morphious66
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:28 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:44 pm
If you want compact and not a bulky SSD dangling off it, get the SanDisk Ultra fit USB3.0/3.1 versions.(Samsung do a similar style)
They are a similar price to their uSD counterpart.

Other than everything being blindingly hot so I can't get the thing out without having to turn it all off and leave it.
It pretty quick.

hdparm = 135.41MB/s (read)
DD benchmark = 61.3MB/s (write)

Trying iozone,. Pi I think I just goto the device and run it from a directory
Might the Samsung MUF-128AB be a better option? https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/me ... -256ab-am/ reviews do not mention of any heating issues and its ultra small as well.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:51 pm

clicky wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:25 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:40 pm
bunklung wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:21 pm
Now, if you have room for something as small as an SSD drive, the minimal extra money for an SSD seems like a no brainer for 300-500MB/sec speeds. How much is a decent 128GB SD card that will cap out 50MB/sec vs going 120GB SSD?
Absolute max you're going to get with an SSD is 400MB/s becasue the PCIe lane connected to the USB 3 ports is 4Gb/s. In practice, overhead and protocol conversion is going to make it considerably less. I will be running tests...once I get my hands on a Pi4B (it's on order). My guess is that it will top out on the order of 150MB/s, based on some previous tests on other systems. But that's still pretty respectable and an SSD should have a longer working life than an SD card, plus cost/GB favors SSDs for larger capacities (and "larger capacity" can exceed anything in an SD card).
Just now did:

Code: Select all

sudo hdparm -tT /dev/sda1

/dev/sda1:
 Timing cached reads:   950 MB in  2.00 seconds = 474.99 MB/sec
 Timing buffered disk reads: 624 MB in  3.02 seconds = 206.79 MB/sec
I'm compiling eclipse in the background - highest I've seen is 260MB/sec
That's on https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-3-0-To-C ... 3307890492
plus old 80GB Intel's SSD (series 180 I think)
A cached activity isn't going to give to a sustained figure of actual transfers across the I/O interfaces. It's just going to tell you how fast you can write to/read from memory.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:18 am

morphious66 wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:28 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:44 pm
If you want compact and not a bulky SSD dangling off it, get the SanDisk Ultra fit USB3.0/3.1 versions.(Samsung do a similar style)
They are a similar price to their uSD counterpart.

Other than everything being blindingly hot so I can't get the thing out without having to turn it all off and leave it.
It pretty quick.

hdparm = 135.41MB/s (read)
DD benchmark = 61.3MB/s (write)

Trying iozone,. Pi I think I just goto the device and run it from a directory
Might the Samsung MUF-128AB be a better option? https://www.samsung.com/us/computing/me ... -256ab-am/ reviews do not mention of any heating issues and its ultra small as well.
I have the 3.0 version of that (and of the SanDisk 3.9 too).

It more that the Pi4 has everything sat at near 60C just doing nothing, the desk is not liking it so much. All the USB ports are just that hot acting as cooling (the ethernet port is cool though, it doesn't seem to aid in cooling).
And the compact devices just get warm hot no matter what, it has to go somewhere, normally that would the the USB port itself.
So neither help each other out.

Shame as it means they void their safety for schools, I couldn't write a risk assessment and recommend them (and we'll have 3 on order for next year if funding goes through).
They would need cases. That more money. Anyone tried HATs on them, the SenseHAT will be interesting and it temperature reporting, the heat it traps in..

It's a shame to hide it all away in case and loose that bare board play with it appeal.

We'll find away and the engineers will find a way. I just don't understand why the idle temps are so high (yes if I was playing a game or hammering it hard).
But it just sits there at the desktop.
With just a SD card, hdmi cable and mouse and keyboard (these are a bit jerky with the usb drive attached too for some reason.)

Early days though (for users).
:-)

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:46 am

What info does the qr barcode on the bottom show ?

I was hoping it was the serial number like on tinkerboard, but it doesn't seem to be:

Image
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Ghostintheruins
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm

Is anybody else having WiFi issues with the pi4?

Mine occasionally just doesn’t connect to any networks. It can see the networks and it can remember the pass key but it just refuses to connect to them. It’s frustrating when trying to use it without a monitor because it’s like a roll of the dice wether it will connect to a network or not.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:39 pm

Ghostintheruins wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm
Is anybody else having WiFi issues with the pi4?

Mine occasionally just doesn’t connect to any networks. It can see the networks and it can remember the pass key but it just refuses to connect to them. It’s frustrating when trying to use it without a monitor because it’s like a roll of the dice wether it will connect to a network or not.
Did/Do you have the Pi 3 /ZeroW or 3+
(Just for comparison)

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:41 pm

mikerr wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:46 am
What info does the qr barcode on the bottom show ?

I was hoping it was the serial number like on tinkerboard, but it doesn't seem to be:

Image
Possibly an internal batch code so the factory can determine when it was made / assembled.
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Ernst
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:51 pm

Ghostintheruins wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm
Is anybody else having WiFi issues with the pi4?

Mine occasionally just doesn’t connect to any networks. It can see the networks and it can remember the pass key but it just refuses to connect to them. It’s frustrating when trying to use it without a monitor because it’s like a roll of the dice wether it will connect to a network or not.
I have noticed the same problem but I have been unable to find out what might be causing the problem, according to the messages there was an authentication error which was persistent after several reboots, I was also unable to find out when the problem started. A test with a newly flashed memory card worked without problems. The strange part is that the problem disappeared on the original card after testing.
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Ghostintheruins
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:30 pm

Ernst wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Ghostintheruins wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm
Is anybody else having WiFi issues with the pi4?

Mine occasionally just doesn’t connect to any networks. It can see the networks and it can remember the pass key but it just refuses to connect to them. It’s frustrating when trying to use it without a monitor because it’s like a roll of the dice wether it will connect to a network or not.
I have noticed the same problem but I have been unable to find out what might be causing the problem, according to the messages there was an authentication error which was persistent after several reboots, I was also unable to find out when the problem started. A test with a newly flashed memory card worked without problems. The strange part is that the problem disappeared on the original card after testing.
I suppose at least it’s not just me.

I’m just after flashing a new card with a fresh install of buster, I thought maybe that would be a temporary fix, and now I can’t get it to connect to anything.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:25 pm

When I had .ac authentication problems it was the router. It would first be happy (this was a tablet from years ago) and then it would just go into an authentication loop after it had been asleep/off for sometime, many people had it.
For me a new modern router has solved the problem that support .ac
The old router was a b/g/n only Netgear.
The solution was to 'forget' the wifi (this was android) , reboot and reconnect.

Do you both have the same routers ?

I've not seen a problem yet (technicolour router)

Ghostintheruins
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:37 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:25 pm
When I had .ac authentication problems it was the router. It would first be happy (this was a tablet from years ago) and then it would just go into an authentication loop after it had been asleep/off for sometime, many people had it.
For me a new modern router has solved the problem that support .ac
The old router was a b/g/n only Netgear.
The solution was to 'forget' the wifi (this was android) , reboot and reconnect.

Do you both have the same routers ?

I've not seen a problem yet (technicolour router)

Unlikely I’d say.

WiFi seems to be gone completely for me now, at least connecting to them. No luck with the raspbian image that I put onto an sd card an hour or so ago so I’ve been trying noobs. I’ve tried the hotspot from my iPhone, a hotspot from an android phone and my WiFi from my Huawei router which has 2,4 and 5ghz bands. It can see all of them but refuses to connect to any of them, except for the 5ghz which it briefly connected to long enough to download libreELEC. Same while running libre elec, nothing will connect.

Ernst
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:37 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:25 pm
When I had .ac authentication problems it was the router. It would first be happy (this was a tablet from years ago) and then it would just go into an authentication loop after it had been asleep/off for sometime, many people had it.
For me a new modern router has solved the problem that support .ac
The old router was a b/g/n only Netgear.
The solution was to 'forget' the wifi (this was android) , reboot and reconnect.

Do you both have the same routers ?
It is not the Access Points, I have three different ones, with different SSIDs, on 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz.
The wpa_supplicant.conf was configured for three different 2.4Ghz APs, the same file used on other raspberries.
All three SSIDs failed with authentication error, the same file was copied to a newly flashed memory card worked on the Pi 4B.
After this the original SD card was put into the Pi 4B and WiFi was connected successfully using the same config.
Something really strange going on.
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pfletch101
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:20 pm

bensimmo wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:18 am
It more that the Pi4 has everything sat at near 60C just doing nothing, the desk is not liking it so much. All the USB ports are just that hot acting as cooling (the ethernet port is cool though, it doesn't seem to aid in cooling).
And the compact devices just get warm hot no matter what, it has to go somewhere, normally that would the the USB port itself.
So neither help each other out.

Shame as it means they void their safety for schools, I couldn't write a risk assessment and recommend them (and we'll have 3 on order for next year if funding goes through).
They would need cases. That more money. Anyone tried HATs on them, the SenseHAT will be interesting and it temperature reporting, the heat it traps in..

It's a shame to hide it all away in case and loose that bare board play with it appeal.

We'll find away and the engineers will find a way. I just don't understand why the idle temps are so high (yes if I was playing a game or hammering it hard).
But it just sits there at the desktop.
With just a SD card, hdmi cable and mouse and keyboard (these are a bit jerky with the usb drive attached too for some reason.)

Early days though (for users).
:-)
IMHO, if you routinely run your Pis without any sort of case, you must like living dangerously! To me, that involves too much risk of random conductive material under it or dropped on it short-circuiting traces on the board, producing "Magic Smoke". :) I keep all my Pis in cases, but usually with the tops open on 'enclosed' cases or (particularly for my workhorse Pis) in sideless enclosures mounted vertically on a bookcase. I am still waiting for my ordered Pi 4, but my various 3s run under variable loads with CPU temps in the 50s. I will almost certainly mount the 4 vertically in a sideless enclosure, at least initially, but I won't be running it as a bare board.

jamesh
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Thu Jul 04, 2019 4:09 pm

pfletch101 wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:20 pm
bensimmo wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:18 am
It more that the Pi4 has everything sat at near 60C just doing nothing, the desk is not liking it so much. All the USB ports are just that hot acting as cooling (the ethernet port is cool though, it doesn't seem to aid in cooling).
And the compact devices just get warm hot no matter what, it has to go somewhere, normally that would the the USB port itself.
So neither help each other out.

Shame as it means they void their safety for schools, I couldn't write a risk assessment and recommend them (and we'll have 3 on order for next year if funding goes through).
They would need cases. That more money. Anyone tried HATs on them, the SenseHAT will be interesting and it temperature reporting, the heat it traps in..

It's a shame to hide it all away in case and loose that bare board play with it appeal.

We'll find away and the engineers will find a way. I just don't understand why the idle temps are so high (yes if I was playing a game or hammering it hard).
But it just sits there at the desktop.
With just a SD card, hdmi cable and mouse and keyboard (these are a bit jerky with the usb drive attached too for some reason.)

Early days though (for users).
:-)
IMHO, if you routinely run your Pis without any sort of case, you must like living dangerously! To me, that involves too much risk of random conductive material under it or dropped on it short-circuiting traces on the board, producing "Magic Smoke". :) I keep all my Pis in cases, but usually with the tops open on 'enclosed' cases or (particularly for my workhorse Pis) in sideless enclosures mounted vertically on a bookcase. I am still waiting for my ordered Pi 4, but my various 3s run under variable loads with CPU temps in the 50s. I will almost certainly mount the 4 vertically in a sideless enclosure, at least initially, but I won't be running it as a bare board.
I've never used a case on development Pi's over the last 6 years, never had a problem, and my desk could not be described as tidy. But clearly being in a case does offer more protection.
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