W. H. Heydt
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Re: Unofficial Raspberry Pi 4 cases?

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:18 pm

iridium2177 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:09 pm
Hi there,

Will a Raspberry Pi 4 fit in a Raspberry Pi 3 plus case without problem?

Hmm, having thought about it, the HDMI and power sockets wouldn't be right.
That issue was mentioned in the announcement blog post. Leave one side panel off and cut away the divider fins on the end with the USB and Ethernet jacks. There is a picture in the blog posting: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... w-from-35/ Scroll down to the case pictures and you'll see it.
Does anyone know of sellers of unofficial Raspberry Pi 4 cases?
Pretty much everyone who sells the boards should have the cases. Just hunt around.

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Re: Strange things with new graphics driver ...

Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm

jbeale wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 pm
FWIW I have an Intel-based "Fitlet2" MiniPC made this way, it is small and draws about 10 watts which is even more than a Pi4.
Ummm...No. The Pi4B can draw up to 15W (3A*5v).

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Re: Strange things with new graphics driver ...

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:32 pm

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:20 pm
jbeale wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:22 pm
FWIW I have an Intel-based "Fitlet2" MiniPC made this way, it is small and draws about 10 watts which is even more than a Pi4.
Ummm...No. The Pi4B can draw up to 15W (3A*5v).
Maybe we are speaking of different things. I am looking at the 3.1A (15.3 W) official supply, combined with the claim that the Pi4 can provide a total of 1.2 A to external USB devices, meaning I believe it cannot use more than 1.9 A (under 10 W) all by itself. I am presuming that the power dissipated by external devices would not significantly add to the heat inside the Pi's case, at least if they connect through a USB cable. I agree my assumption might not hold for a small directly-connected USB memory device or other dongle which mostly dumps its heat through the USB connector shell.

Edit: this power benchmark says the Pi4 uses 3.4 watts at idle, and 7.6 watts under load.
https://medium.com/@ghalfacree/benchmar ... e5afbcd54b
Last edited by jbeale on Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:40 pm

schorsch76 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 pm
I got an usb keyboard, HDMI, Ethernet (no Wifi configured), power and thats it

EDIT: I got the 3A PSU from the Pi foundation.
Does the Pi reboot successfully if you unplug everything except ethernet and power? (i.e. unplug all other peripherals during the shutdown phase)
Rockets are loud.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sat Jun 29, 2019 6:42 pm

PeterO wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 11:59 am
Today I'm using my Pi4 at The National Museum Of Computing to run my Elliott 803 emulator because it is too hot to run the real machine (which is 50m years old and full of Germanium transistors).
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D-OULw9W4AAHcg6.png:large
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This is awesome.

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Re: Strange things with new graphics driver ...

Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:08 pm

aBUGSworstnightmare wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:41 pm
Hi,

as I couldn't get dual display running on my CM3L hardware I've started some tests with my freshly arrived RPi 4 2GB.

Started with DSI display only which worked fine from the start.

With DSI still connected I've added a HDMI display which did not show any content. Don't know what I did exactly but suddenly the HDMI display came to life and I had dual display running. Tested the screen configuration tool and so far s good.
Anyhow, will try with a fresh SD card to see if I'm able to replicate it.
<snip>
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My only comment will be that I had noticed that the dpi24 overlay seems not to do the right thing. Reasons aren't clear why, but it looks like something else has claimed one or more of the pins that it is trying to change which means it will fail to load. Using the gpio command is a quick work around for now.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:11 pm

k-pi wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:21 pm
By my reckoning, it will fit into a RPi3B official case with that side removed, as a temporary measure until the RPi4B official case is available.
It is available, but in such limited quantities.

For anyone in the US, Chicago Electric Distributors still has some: https://chicagodist.com/collections/ras ... -red-white

Also, not to plug for them (just trying to be helpful), they have 31 black official power supplies available at time of writing this.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:20 pm

gtechn wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:11 pm
k-pi wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:21 pm
By my reckoning, it will fit into a RPi3B official case with that side removed, as a temporary measure until the RPi4B official case is available.
It is available, but in such limited quantities.

For anyone in the US, Chicago Electric Distributors still has some: https://chicagodist.com/collections/ras ... -red-white

Also, not to plug for them (just trying to be helpful), they have 31 black official power supplies available at time of writing this.
For anyone thinking of buying a Pi 4 - you definitely want the official power supply. This is probably even more important with the Pi 4 given that it has higher power consumption than previous models.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:41 pm

Hi.

I am very excited with this RPi-4b release.

I have created a thread in "Networking and servers" in regards to Bittorrent (transmission) download speeds, which I am very interested in.
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/view ... 6&t=244191

I have had all Pi "b" versions, and has struggled with all of them, before moving to another brand which did not share ethernet and usb ports on same bus.

However would love to move back to the pi eco system, if someone with the Pi 4b could add some insight in the thread I created.

Thanks.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:47 pm

Is the Poly Fuse no longer used on a Pi 4? I'm not seeing it in any of the pictures. Not saying its not there, just not obvious to these old eyes like in the past. It's usually pretty easy to spot.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:54 pm

To all those asking if it will fit in a 3B case, yet it will with, as has been mentioned, the side removed and some minor modification.

Should you do it? Not without a cooling solution. Honestly, I was hitting 80C+ in a modified case compared with 63C open to the air.

Just saying.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:27 pm

alphanumeric wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:47 pm
Is the Poly Fuse no longer used on a Pi 4?
I thought it was already long gone, the total USB current limit being set by a FET-type circuit breaker to 1.2 A both on the Pi4 as well as the previous model. Oh, back in the early days I guess there were different size polyfuses, one on 5V input to the whole Pi, and others for 5V USB output. I don't know what's happening there nowadays, but the whole input power circuit has definitely changed from the original.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:24 am

I saw somewhere that the Pi4 only supports 3d on one display, if using two, the other one doesn't support 3d.

Would I be able to do Kodi once that situation's sorted out on one display and use desktop stuff benefiting from 3d on the other at the same time?

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:09 am

jbeale wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:27 pm
alphanumeric wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:47 pm
Is the Poly Fuse no longer used on a Pi 4?
I thought it was already long gone, the total USB current limit being set by a FET-type circuit breaker to 1.2 A both on the Pi4 as well as the previous model. Oh, back in the early days I guess there were different size polyfuses, one on 5V input to the whole Pi, and others for 5V USB output. I don't know what's happening there nowadays, but the whole input power circuit has definitely changed from the original.
Polyfuses on the USB ports went away a *long* time ago. They were on the original Model B and were soon replaced by zero ohm resistors and then eliminated altogether by a board revision (2.0, IIRC). And--to be complete--shortly after the rev. 2.0, the Model B went from 256MB RAM to 512MB. (The 256MB Rev. 2.0 is, I think, the only general release Pi I don't have one of...not counting the CM3+, but I'm working--slowly--on that.)

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:56 am

jdb wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:40 pm
schorsch76 wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 4:16 pm
I got an usb keyboard, HDMI, Ethernet (no Wifi configured), power and thats it

EDIT: I got the 3A PSU from the Pi foundation.
Does the Pi reboot successfully if you unplug everything except ethernet and power? (i.e. unplug all other peripherals during the shutdown phase)
Dear jdb,

i tried to unplug everything and shutdown over ssh, but it stays the same.... :|

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:21 am

binaryhermit wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:24 am
I saw somewhere that the Pi4 only supports 3d on one display, if using two, the other one doesn't support 3d.

Would I be able to do Kodi once that situation's sorted out on one display and use desktop stuff benefiting from 3d on the other at the same time?
I'm not sure that's true, but might be! Will need to check. Where did you read it?

It would be a very odd use case to want 3D on both displays simultaneously.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:42 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:21 am
binaryhermit wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:24 am
I saw somewhere that the Pi4 only supports 3d on one display, if using two, the other one doesn't support 3d.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet. :shock:

It works on both displays at the same time and even with a window containing openGLES display spanning both displays :D
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:57 am

My Pi4 has not yet been delivered, but I have sampled Buster and like it!

I refreshed the image on a Pi3B and it is now Buster. I haven't tried Python yet, but for everyday it seems great.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:05 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:21 am
binaryhermit wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:24 am
I saw somewhere that the Pi4 only supports 3d on one display, if using two, the other one doesn't support 3d.

Would I be able to do Kodi once that situation's sorted out on one display and use desktop stuff benefiting from 3d on the other at the same time?
I'm not sure that's true, but might be! Will need to check. Where did you read it?

It would be a very odd use case to want 3D on both displays simultaneously.
Really?
If two webpages open, one on each.
3D acceleration within the browser.
Art, Design, CAD, Slicer Application on one window, maybe two and a browser ?

One is the large presentation screen and one is the user screen, possibly mirrored.

It does all to common a case.

On Windows10, for example, you'll see it a lot. It shows you in Task Manager what is using which GPU and the load, just like a CPU.

If the desktop is accelerated in anyway, obviously both need to be able to do it.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:41 am

bensimmo wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:05 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:21 am
binaryhermit wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:24 am
I saw somewhere that the Pi4 only supports 3d on one display, if using two, the other one doesn't support 3d.

Would I be able to do Kodi once that situation's sorted out on one display and use desktop stuff benefiting from 3d on the other at the same time?
I'm not sure that's true, but might be! Will need to check. Where did you read it?

It would be a very odd use case to want 3D on both displays simultaneously.
Really?
If two webpages open, one on each.
3D acceleration within the browser.
Art, Design, CAD, Slicer Application on one window, maybe two and a browser ?

One is the large presentation screen and one is the user screen, possibly mirrored.

It does all to common a case.

On Windows10, for example, you'll see it a lot. It shows you in Task Manager what is using which GPU and the load, just like a CPU.

If the desktop is accelerated in anyway, obviously both need to be able to do it.
I was thinking 3D (Stereoscopic) TV, but perhaps the OP means simply using 3D rendering? In which case, that will work fine.
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:51 am

I guess he might be referring to multi-head systems that utilize two discrete GPUs - one intel, one AMD/Nvidia. In those cases you will have issues with spanning single opengl/direct3d windows across two monitors (including modern web browsers - I see it happen on W7/W10 quite often).

But the Pi has a single GPU and a master 8K x 8K framebuffer that's used as a source for the video outputs. Everything is AFAIK rendered onto that framebuffer regardless if you have one, two, three or no screen connected. I guess if the data fits into that framebuffer there's nothing (apart from the advertised HDMI limits) preventing from getting 2x 3D out.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:57 am

jamesh wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:41 am
....

I was thinking 3D (Stereoscopic) TV, but perhaps the OP means simply using 3D rendering? In which case, that will work fine.
That is quite different, other than museums (to good effect), I've never seen anyone use 3D TV/Monitor setups, probably why it never crossed my mind.

I do know Nvidia do keep trying to install stereoscopic drivers on my 'big box' computer for no reason.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:04 am

jbeale wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:27 pm
alphanumeric wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:47 pm
Is the Poly Fuse no longer used on a Pi 4?
I thought it was already long gone, the total USB current limit being set by a FET-type circuit breaker to 1.2 A both on the Pi4 as well as the previous model. Oh, back in the early days I guess there were different size polyfuses, one on 5V input to the whole Pi, and others for 5V USB output. I don't know what's happening there nowadays, but the whole input power circuit has definitely changed from the original.
The 3B+ and 3A+ both have poly fuses on them. The Pi Zero was the only one I was aware of that didn't have one.

EDIT: I'm talking about the poly fuse between the power in jack and the GPIO +5V pins. For lack of a better description/ placement.

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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:04 pm

alphanumeric wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:04 am
jbeale wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:27 pm
alphanumeric wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:47 pm
Is the Poly Fuse no longer used on a Pi 4?
I thought it was already long gone, the total USB current limit being set by a FET-type circuit breaker to 1.2 A both on the Pi4 as well as the previous model. Oh, back in the early days I guess there were different size polyfuses, one on 5V input to the whole Pi, and others for 5V USB output. I don't know what's happening there nowadays, but the whole input power circuit has definitely changed from the original.
The 3B+ and 3A+ both have poly fuses on them. The Pi Zero was the only one I was aware of that didn't have one.

EDIT: I'm talking about the poly fuse between the power in jack and the GPIO +5V pins. For lack of a better description/ placement.
The main 5V input polyfuse is not shown on the Pi4B partial schematic. There is still a TVS protection diode (SMBJ5.0A-TR5V).
So the current limiting element must now be external -- is there a polyfuse in the new PSU? Should we all order handfuls of polyfuses to modify all Pi4s, so they can survive the application of 12V to the GPIO connector power pins?
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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:15 pm

I won't be adding one (poly fuse) if its now gone. I have a handful of Pi's that get thier +5V via the GPIO pins anyway. I'm well aware of the risks of doing that and not too worried about my setups having any issues. I was looking over pictures on the new PI 4 and didn't see one is all. Usually its pretty easy to spot. I did also have a quick look at the partial schematic and didn't see it. So that got me curious enough to ask if its gone now.

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