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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:51 pm
by jamesh
jakky567 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:44 pm
Does the Pi 4 support VP9 hardware decoding? Also are mpeg2 and VC-1 supported (I have a couple of bluray rips).
The MP2 and VC1 HW support is removed, this is now available through software decoding (the ARM's are fast enough). Means you don't need the codec key.

At the moment VP9 is all software, but there may be the option to have some of it HW accelerated at some point.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:53 pm
by jcyr
I run RPs mostly headless and and care little about video enhancements. The gigabit Ethernet and BLuetooth enhancements will both be useful for my use cases. USB 3.0 might also be a huge plus for NAS builders.

I wonder however about the I2C, SPI, PWM, and port logic blocks in the new SOC. Has backwards compatibility been retained there? In other words, will direct to controller support libraries such bcm2835.lib continue to function as is, or with only minor additions?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:57 pm
by jors
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm
nai1ed wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:41 pm
It would have been nice to have some kind of emmc memory option. Either onboard and an expansion module. I guess that would have been icing on the cake!
EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.
Mind sharing some info/paper talking about that?

Thanks in advance!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:03 pm
by alnaseh
thank again,

Will the new bluetooth module support HFP/HSP profiles (mic), is it a software upgrade or has anything to do with the hardware module

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:05 pm
by jamesh
jors wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:57 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm
nai1ed wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:41 pm
It would have been nice to have some kind of emmc memory option. Either onboard and an expansion module. I guess that would have been icing on the cake!
EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.
Mind sharing some info/paper talking about that?

Thanks in advance!
Nope, personal experience. SD cards have wear leveling, EMMC generally doesn't, so if using them for the same thing, the EMMC will fail first. depends on the FS.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:05 pm
by nai1ed
jors wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:57 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm
nai1ed wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:41 pm
It would have been nice to have some kind of emmc memory option. Either onboard and an expansion module. I guess that would have been icing on the cake!
EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.
Mind sharing some info/paper talking about that?

Thanks in advance!
If this was true then why does the Raspberry Pi Compute module have onboard 8gb EMMC? It seemed good enough for that, plus I've never encountered a corrupt emmc. They are usually very robust.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:07 pm
by jcyr
EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.
SD also allows the possibility of keeping different software configs and solutions, per SD card.

Oh, and as far as controlling costs, I'm guessing an SD socket is cheaper than an eMMC chip.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:07 pm
by jamesh
nai1ed wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:05 pm
jors wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:57 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm


EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.
Mind sharing some info/paper talking about that?

Thanks in advance!
If this was true then why does the Raspberry Pi Compute module have onboard 8gb EMMC? It seemed good enough for that, plus I've never encountered a corrupt emmc. They are usually very robust.
Different use case.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:07 pm
by okenido
WOW well done the rpi team I'm so excited !! The new cpu with its much longer pipeline has the potential to be 2 times more powerful at the same frequency, and with the much bigger cache and faster memory the announced 3X performance bump seems legit !

Do you know if the I2C bug has been corrected in the BCM2711 ? (bug about the I2C clock stretching, has been there since a decade)

The only point i'm a bit disappointed is the very outdated 2-lane DSI port which is still here (ok, for compatibility purposes...). LVDS would be so much more compatible and modern, i'm not sure this SoC natively supports it ?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:12 pm
by vithusel
Just to check. How would I go about enabling usb boot? I've had a googling session as well as looking through this thread but not seen anything. Is this something that is to be implemented or do I follow the same rules as for the 3b &b+ ?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:15 pm
by okenido
jcyr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:07 pm
EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.
SD also allows the possibility of keeping different software configs and solutions, per SD card.

Oh, and as far as controlling costs, I'm guessing an SD socket is cheaper than an eMMC chip.
Yup I personnally much prefer the socket so you're free to replace the sd card if it fails.
I design an embedded product using RPI and it allows me to choose a low capacity but very high reliability/endurance SLC microsd for my application

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:23 pm
by Paul Webster
PeterO wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:32 pm
Have you upset the BBC ? They ignore the PI4 and go for https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48743043 :shock:

Maybe you should have called it "iPi4" then they would be interested :lol:
Peter O
I guess they were waiting for an update from Rory...
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-48747647

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:25 pm
by energyi
Great job by the Foundation to keep this quiet, something the bigger companies can't do. That itself is a valuable performance.

Can't wait to team the 4 with a Coral usb.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:32 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jdb wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:50 am
The VPU and a few legacy bus masters can only address the first 1GB of RAM. The VPU caching still works as before. The new bus master controllers/ARM/ethernet/PCIe have a 35-bit address bus.
So...in theory (NOT a request), then 2711 could address 32GB RAM? If so, smart move. Real "future proofing".

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:43 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:06 am
zohixatax wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:55 am
DISABLE WIFI/Bluetooth - Or Better still is there going to be a version with no WIFI/BT Chip ??

Is there a WIF/BlueTooth Hardware switch ?

I know you can disable this with software, but when thats done is the chip OFF ??
Let me get this right. We release a new Pi, with loads of extra features, and amazing specs, at an amazing price.

And for your first post you want to turn stuff off or remove it completely? Stuff that us engineers have spent years of our lives on.

Sometimes, I just despair.

Still, I guess it happened on every single release we have done - I should be getting used to it by now.
Well...I wouldn't have put it that way...

There is a "sorta kinda" Pi3B without wireless. It's the Pi2Bv1.2. (I'm thinking of updating a set of 6 Pi2Bv1.1 to them, just as insurance against the eventual 64-bit OS). I will admit that I'd be happy--*eventually*--to see a wired-only Pi4B. Perhaps it could be a Pi2Bv1.3. Maybe along about 2021. And perhaps a Pi4A in the same sort of time frame.

In the mean time, I'd like to thank you an all your colleagues for this extraordinary piece of engineering and design. I will be getting at least 4 4GB Pi4Bs (one is already on order, but it won't ship until early July) and almost certainly some 1GB models. Then there'll be at least 1 2GB one, if only for completeness.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:50 pm
by ghodan
Question i have seen in https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/raspbe ... w-from-35/
"With the dual display does it allow, DSI screen and hdmi to be used at the same time?"

Good question, i would also like to know the answer.

Also:
Will using a Micro SD card of the UHS-II type have effect on a Pi4?
Is UHS-II supported? If yes, will Pi4 be able to use the max speed of a pricier SD cards marked as UHS-II ?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:51 pm
by bensimmo
As the WiFi is just a module, I assume it is still fine for RS/Farnell to have orders for customised Pi4 without the WiFi/BT module there.

So perhaps the person needing it can order a lot of them and then resell them and fill that market they can see?.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:53 pm
by thisisnikos
jdb wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:50 am
tpyo kingg wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:47 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:31 am
Under the skin, much is different. This is the biggest HW change in Pi history.
Exciting. I guess there will be some general-audience blog posts or articles going into the details when the time is right.

Can I ask if HDMI sound would be able to play independently via each HDMI port?
As of right now, HDMI audio and CEC are single-head (so one port will do both CEC and audio at the same time). You can select which port gets audio/CEC through config.txt.

At some point we may update the alsa driver for an added playback route so you can swap it at runtime.
Would you mind sharing more information for CEC configuration in config.txt? I cannot seem to make it work on RPi4.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:00 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jdb wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:10 am
1. Downstream USB ports are all host-mode only. USB OTG (2.0) has moved to the USB-C port.
I've seen several references to this feature. It's interesting and undoubtedly a good idea (I don't need it, but I'm sure others do). It does imply, though, that either the USB master can supply a solid 3A at 5v, or one would have to power the Pi4B through the GPIO pins to make it work as a slave device.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:07 pm
by alexdev
I can see in the bcm2838.dts a reference to another xHCI-compilant controller which is disabled.

Code: Select all

		xhci: xhci@7e9c0000 {
			compatible = "generic-xhci";
			status = "disabled";
			reg = <0x0 0x7e9c0000 0x100000>;
			interrupts = <GIC_SPI 176 IRQ_TYPE_LEVEL_HIGH>;
		};
		
What's the purpose of this?

Also, where are the two USB 2.0 ports connected? It's still the same old DesignWare 2.0 USB controller?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:08 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:50 am
5) Same as current quantities? Seems likely.
I think it was around the time of the Pi3B launch that it was mentioned that "full production" in Wales was 15K boards per day, and 20K per day could be done for limited periods of time. One would surmise, given the popularity of the Pi, that the rates haven't gone down, and that unless another manufacturing line has been added, they probably haven't gone up...or at least not by any large amount.
6) What doc has 8GB? Range is 1,2, or 4GB.
Perhaps he has the Pi4B RAM confused with the eMMC on the CM3+?
Seems likely that the twin HDMI will stay as micro. No room for full size connectors. We are selling a range of cheap but high quality cables, or you can use an adapter.
I believe the the blog post mentioned an inexpensive power cable adapter (microUSB-B to USB-C).

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:12 pm
by jbeale
I have a rather niche, limited-interest question: with the new more direct SoC connection of Gbit ethernet port, is there any practical difference on the achievable timing accuracy via NTP on the LAN, vs. previous models? I assume there is no extra packet timestamping hardware for use for PTP / IEEE-1588.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:20 pm
by hippy
[DELETED]

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:23 pm
by W. H. Heydt
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm
EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.
Well...if it's a card slotted in, that last problem goes away. but then one is back with the same issues we see far too often with SD cards being damaged through mishandling the board. Plus, of course, SD cards are *everywhere*. eMMC modules, not so much.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:30 pm
by KanoMaster22
okenido wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 3:07 pm
Do you know if the I2C bug has been corrected in the BCM2711 ? (bug about the I2C clock stretching, has been there since a decade)
This question also interests me. Does anyone know the answer to it?

Another great product from the Raspberry Pi team. Can't wait to get my hands on one (when the 4GB ones are back in stock).