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Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:43 pm
by pi3g
6) What doc has 8GB? Range is 1,2, or 4GB
I think is was a linked pi3g doc not RPF's doc, they seemed to have some more insider detail, how accurate?
Nice to know I have 2 years to learn the Pi 4 before you give us new versions :lol:
That might not be enough time :oops: .
Maybe you are confusing it with some other competitor boards I compared (specifically their eMMC flash)? There's nothing about an 8 GB Pi 4 version in "Inside Pi 4". Sorry to disappoint you :-)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:49 pm
by ghodan
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:26 am
endera wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:20 am
hi,

Will this new(Rpi4) product support Windows 10?

Windows 10 Desktop Editions only run on x86 CPU Architecture, you may be able to use a virtual machine ??
https://github.com/WOA-Project/WOA-Deployer-Rpi

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:50 pm
by pi3g
pi3g wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:27 am

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1560/ ... 4.pdf?2142

So what pi3g writes about Bluetooth 5.0 does not apply to Raspberry Pi 4 at all if I got it correct.
Yes, please treat this part with caution - it was put together on the base of what features Bluetooth 5.0, the specification, offers vs. what the Pi actually offers - I could not verify whether these features are present, as it was literally written at around 1 o'clock today in the morning. I apologize for any confusion!

Another error:
"The new BCM2711 adds some new interface functions on ALT6 and ALT7:"

In fact, the new functions are spread across the existing ALT functions.

I will update the document with more information and accurate information, and repost.

@jamesh / @ Gordon : could you please inform us which Bluetooth 5.0 extensions are available in the Pi 4?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:56 pm
by rodizio
With the new Videocore 6 and higher GPU freq and faster RAM, is my assumption correct, that h.264 encoding and decoding will be faster, i.e. the glass-to-glass latency will be slightly lower?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:16 pm
by 6by9
noggin wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:30 pm
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:10 am
3D MVC? What is that?
3D MVC = 3D Multi View Coding. It's the extension to h.264 that is used in 3D Blu-rays, and which previous models of Raspberry Pis have supported decoding ofwithin Kodi.

Also - allied to this - is a question as to whether the HDMI outputs still support HDMI 1080p24 Frame Packed 3D output (which allows 3D 1080p24 output)? (i.e. 2 x 1080p24 streams - one for each eye - output over HDMI)

The Raspberry Pi has been one of the very few ARM SBCs that supports proper 3D Blu-ray playback with 3D MVC decode and 1080p24 frame packed 3D HDMI output , so I guess the question raised by the OP is whether this is still supported?

With 3DMVC Frame Packed output, 4K60 10-bit HEVC (hopefully with with HDR10 ST.2084 PQ and HLG Rec.2100 EOTFs and Rec 2020 colour gamut support) and HD Audio bitstreaming, the Pi 4B would be probably out ahead of pretty much everything already out there (ignoring Dolby Vision)
The H264 block is the same, so still supports MVC. I have got a little bit of plumbing left to get the relevant signalling through DRM when using that, but it shouldn't be huge.

Yes, the HVS/HDMI should still support the same stereoscopic signalling.

3D support with HEVC may be slightly further down the line. 10bit HEVC is already done.
Full HDR rendering needs a load of changes that have only just been merged into Linux mainline, so lots of stuff will have to be backported or bump forward (ie the next LTS release), but it should come fairly rapidly.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:33 pm
by noggin
6by9 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:16 pm
The H264 block is the same, so still supports MVC. I have got a little bit of plumbing left to get the relevant signalling through DRM when using that, but it shouldn't be huge.

Yes, the HVS/HDMI should still support the same stereoscopic signalling.

3D support with HEVC may be slightly further down the line. 10bit HEVC is already done.
Full HDR rendering needs a load of changes that have only just been merged into Linux mainline, so lots of stuff will have to be backported or bump forward (ie the next LTS release), but it should come fairly rapidly.
Great - thanks for the quick reply.

3D MVC decode + Frame Packed 3D output AND HEVC 10-bit 2160p60 with HDR10 (and hopefully HLG - awesome for iPlayer UHD HDR!) support will make the Pi 4B a class-leading Kodi platform. (Full MaxCLL/MaxFALL and mastering display metadata support would also be awesome - that's still very patchy on other ARM SBCs at the moment)

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:34 pm
by emilfr
First of all, I would like to congratulate Raspberry Pi Trading for this latest release of RPI Family, this definitely a good news for people like me whose been struggling with SWAP file due to demanding RAM usage of applications I'm running on my RPI.

My question is, when will this board with 4GB of RAM actually uses 3A?

I have Anker power port currently feeding 2x raspi (2B and 3B) with 2.4A MAX on each port and I'm planning to replace both of these with RPI 4 4GB RAM version (I need the available RAM for my application) and I don't want to use 2 separate power supply to feed RPI4.

If I don't attached any disk drive on the USB port and only run both RPIs as pure server, will it be sufficient with 2.4A?
what is the MAX power usage on max load (SoC and RAM) can I expect from RPI4 4GB RAM version?

Thanks!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:45 pm
by ghodan
Will using a Micro SD card of the UHS-II type have effect on a Pi4?
Is UHS-II supported? If yes, will Pi4 be able to use the max speed of a pricier SD cards marked as UHS-II ?

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:46 pm
by fruitoftheloom
ghodan wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:49 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:26 am
endera wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:20 am
hi,

Will this new(Rpi4) product support Windows 10?

Windows 10 Desktop Editions only run on x86 CPU Architecture, you may be able to use a virtual machine ??
https://github.com/WOA-Project/WOA-Deployer-Rpi

That is Windows on ARM version, which is significantly different to Windows on x86, also it is not a MS official release...

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:50 pm
by jamesh
emilfr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:34 pm
First of all, I would like to congratulate Raspberry Pi Foundation for this latest release of RPI Family, this definitely a good news for people like me whose been struggling with SWAP file due to demanding RAM usage of applications I'm running on my RPI.

My question is, when will this board with 4GB of RAM actually uses 3A?

I have Anker power port currently feeding 2x raspi (2B and 3B) with 2.4A MAX on each port and I'm planning to replace both of these with RPI 4 4GB RAM version (I need the available RAM for my application) and I don't want to use 2 separate power supply to feed RPI4.

If I don't attached any disk drive on the USB port and only run both RPIs as pure server, will it be sufficient with 2.4A?
what is the MAX power usage on max load (SoC and RAM) can I expect from RPI4 4GB RAM version?

Thanks!
Sounds feasible. You would need to be running 4kp60, running the encoder and all cores at full tilt, and have devices plugged in to get anywhere near 3A.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:54 pm
by alexdev
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:46 pm
ghodan wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:49 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:26 am



Windows 10 Desktop Editions only run on x86 CPU Architecture, you may be able to use a virtual machine ??
https://github.com/WOA-Project/WOA-Deployer-Rpi

That is Windows on ARM version, which is significantly different to Windows on x86, also it is not a MS official release...
It's not significantly different. It's full Windows 10 ported to ARM64. It also has a x86 emulation layer for user-mode applications.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:56 pm
by DarkPlatinum
The Raspberry Pi Foundation needs a big thank you four this release.

So I would like to thank the Raspberry Pi Trading as well as everyone involved in the making of this magnificent product.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:07 pm
by jamesh
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:56 pm
The Raspberry Pi Foundation needs a big thank you four this release.

So I would like to thank the Raspberry Pi foundation as well as everyone involved in the making of this magnificent product.
s/Foundation/Trading/

Or in human terms, Trading were responsible for the Pi4, not the Foundation.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:09 pm
by emilfr
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:50 pm
emilfr wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:34 pm
First of all, I would like to congratulate Raspberry Pi Foundation for this latest release of RPI Family, this definitely a good news for people like me whose been struggling with SWAP file due to demanding RAM usage of applications I'm running on my RPI.

My question is, when will this board with 4GB of RAM actually uses 3A?

I have Anker power port currently feeding 2x raspi (2B and 3B) with 2.4A MAX on each port and I'm planning to replace both of these with RPI 4 4GB RAM version (I need the available RAM for my application) and I don't want to use 2 separate power supply to feed RPI4.

If I don't attached any disk drive on the USB port and only run both RPIs as pure server, will it be sufficient with 2.4A?
what is the MAX power usage on max load (SoC and RAM) can I expect from RPI4 4GB RAM version?

Thanks!
Sounds feasible. You would need to be running 4kp60, running the encoder and all cores at full tilt, and have devices plugged in to get anywhere near 3A.
Thanks Jamesh,
This is very helpful!

Will definitely order 2-3 of this new piece of work!

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:14 pm
by emilfr
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:07 pm
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 1:56 pm
The Raspberry Pi Foundation needs a big thank you four this release.

So I would like to thank the Raspberry Pi foundation as well as everyone involved in the making of this magnificent product.
s/Foundation/Trading/

Or in human terms, Trading were responsible for the Pi4, not the Foundation.
Noted, after all this years, I for one still got confused. :oops:

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:15 pm
by hippy
Deleted

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:21 pm
by fruitoftheloom
hippy wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:15 pm
scotty101 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:13 am
Welcome to the internet. There is always a hater/troll.
It seems rather uncivil and even against the forum rules to describe people that way.
scotty101 wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:13 am
Block them and move on.
Presumably you meant "ignore them and move on" ? Or do you really think that anyone who has any criticism, any lament, even if legitimate should be blocked permanently ?

Is one only allowed to agree with RPT / RPF these days ?

I could say it's a shame there aren't some things on the Pi 4 which I would have liked to have seen; analogue input being one. It seems the MxL7704-P3 PMIC is using one analogue input as some sort of power detect and it would have been nice if the other could have been made available for user's use if possible.

I am generally impressed by what I have read of the Pi 4 but that doesn't mean that I don't feel it could have been even better in some way. But I guess that makes me a hater and a troll.

Well you do appear to have a high opinion of what is right and wrong, from your exalted perspective.

:lol:

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:22 pm
by Paul Webster
The MPEG2/VC1 license key pages should have an update to say (in bold) that they do not work for RP4 (and, ideally, why)
http://www.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/
http://www.raspberrypi.com/vc-1-license-key/

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:32 pm
by 6by9
Paul Webster wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:22 pm
The MPEG2/VC1 license key pages should have an update to say (in bold) that they do not work for RP4 (and, ideally, why)
http://www.raspberrypi.com/mpeg-2-license-key/
http://www.raspberrypi.com/vc-1-license-key/
Yes, it was raised last week, but obviously the right person hasn't been proded yet.
Pi4's should also report a 1 in the top nibble of the serial number, so there should be filtering to throw out the order if that is seen.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:41 pm
by nai1ed
It would have been nice to have some kind of emmc memory option. Either onboard or an expansion module. I guess that would have been icing on the cake!

Re: Pi4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:42 pm
by jason_a69
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:53 am
jamesh wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:50 am
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:49 am
Reading the specs list I am happy to know that the Pi offers 4GB of Ram. Is the power supply with USB C cheaper than the previous micro USB power supply?
$8 I believe. It's a really lovely small design, very similar to Amazon power supplies. We now make specific devices for specific regions, so we don't waste all the plastic on the region adapters.
That is good except when you need to take your Pi abroad :lol:
You can get this

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/ac-dc-adapters/1871381

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:43 pm
by sblaszak
Hi,

I know it's already been said that the video core hasn't changed (only the 3d part) but, as Rodizio asked, I am also interested in knowing if the general increase in clock speeds might mean a decrease to camera video capture latency. Also, could it mean an increase in max video capture fps for resolutions above 640x480?

Thanks,

sblaszak

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:44 pm
by jakky567
Does the Pi 4 support VP9 hardware decoding? Also are mpeg2 and VC-1 supported (I have a couple of bluray rips).

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:47 pm
by jamesh
nai1ed wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:41 pm
It would have been nice to have some kind of emmc memory option. Either onboard and an expansion module. I guess that would have been icing on the cake!
EMMC really isn't a very good option IMO. Less reliable than SD cards over multiple writes and you cannot replace it when it fails, like you can with an SD card.

Re: Raspberry Pi 4 Thread - general discussion

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:48 pm
by jamesh
sblaszak wrote:
Mon Jun 24, 2019 2:43 pm
Hi,

I know it's already been said that the video core hasn't changed (only the 3d part) but, as Rodizio asked, I am also interested in knowing if the general increase in clock speeds might mean a decrease to camera video capture latency. Also, could it mean an increase in max video capture fps for resolutions above 640x480?

Thanks,

sblaszak
Encode should be faster, but the fps for the camera could be limited by the camera itself and how fast the data can be presented.