Canuck
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:29 pm

SOPA is no more, should probably update your front page.

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mkopack
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:33 pm

Eh, if others are going to protest, no reason not to - it's not like the RIAA / MPAA and others are just going to suddenly go away and stop pressuring congress to do something like this. Politicians need a good stern reminder that they work for ALL of us, not just the fat cats who throw a lot of money their way at campaign time.

Plus, PIPA is also still in the works in the Senate. Obama has said he'll veto anything like this that comes across his desk, and I doubt Congress has enough votes to overturn the veto right now. Still, just because it's getting pulled right now, or would get vetoed right now, doesn't mean they won't try to introduce similar legislation next year or the year after, etc.

If we don't fight for our rights, they'll get taken away. Plain and simple as that!


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scep
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:17 pm

adlambert said:


SOPA won't happen. The world is not that stupid.


But politicians are. That and greedy. And self-serving. Etc

fireraisr
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:17 pm

mkopack said:


Eh, if others are going to protest, no reason not to - it's not like the RIAA / MPAA and others are just going to suddenly go away and stop pressuring congress to do something like this. Politicians need a good stern reminder that they work for ALL of us, not just the fat cats who throw a lot of money their way at campaign time.

Plus, PIPA is also still in the works in the Senate. Obama has said he'll veto anything like this that comes across his desk, and I doubt Congress has enough votes to overturn the veto right now. Still, just because it's getting pulled right now, or would get vetoed right now, doesn't mean they won't try to introduce similar legislation next year or the year after, etc.

If we don't fight for our rights, they'll get taken away. Plain and simple as that!



Obama has said many things that he hasn't followed through with. I imagine if there is enough pressure from the big corps he'll let it through. I don't want the future of the internet left in the hands of one man, we need to stop this before it gets to that point.

macemoneta
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:19 pm

While SOPA is no longer being pursued, it can be revived at any time.  A bill can be 'killed' a thousand times, but it only has to pass once to become law.  Also, as others have pointed out, PIPA, the senate equivalent to SOPA is still alive and must also be stopped.  These aren't battles that end; they are issues that people need to be aware of and remain vigilant for.

Canuck
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:26 pm

scep said:


adlambert said:


SOPA won't happen. The world is not that stupid.


But politicians are. That and greedy. And self-serving. Etc


Not true, there are some politicians out there who actually believe in what they say and project such as Ron Paul who vowed to lower his wage to $40k a year in support of the 99% if he gets elected.

Not all of them are horrible.

SOPA retreated, now PIPA is the enemy.

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scep
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:27 pm

Canuck said:


Not all of them are horrible.


over here they are




Canuck
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:33 pm

scep said:


Canuck said:


Not all of them are horrible.


over here they are





Cameron can't be that bad, he is friends with Jeremy Clarkson so he must have some credibility.

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:34 pm

Canuck said:


scep said:


adlambert said:


SOPA won't happen. The world is not that stupid.


But politicians are. That and greedy. And self-serving. Etc


Not true, there are some politicians out there who actually believe in what they say and project such as Ron Paul who vowed to lower his wage to $40k a year in support of the 99% if he gets elected.

Not all of them are horrible.

Would that be multimillionaire Ron Paul by any chance?


Canuck
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:36 pm

Grumpyoldgit said:


Canuck said:


scep said:


adlambert said:


SOPA won't happen. The world is not that stupid.


But politicians are. That and greedy. And self-serving. Etc


Not true, there are some politicians out there who actually believe in what they say and project such as Ron Paul who vowed to lower his wage to $40k a year in support of the 99% if he gets elected.

Not all of them are horrible.

Would that be multimillionaire Ron Paul by any chance?



All Politicians have a fat wallet because they're usually educated in law and most high up political jobs such as senator pay a large sum, and if you're in that position for awhile it adds up.

mobeyduck
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:52 pm

Canuck said:


Grumpyoldgit said:


Canuck said:


scep said:


adlambert said:


SOPA won't happen. The world is not that stupid.


But politicians are. That and greedy. And self-serving. Etc


Not true, there are some politicians out there who actually believe in what they say and project such as Ron Paul who vowed to lower his wage to $40k a year in support of the 99% if he gets elected.

Not all of them are horrible.

Would that be multimillionaire Ron Paul by any chance?



All Politicians have a fat wallet because they're usually educated in law and most high up political jobs such as senator pay a large sum, and if you're in that position for awhile it adds up.

I just have one thing to say to that:

Arnold Schwarzenegger

benatweb
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:08 pm

Canuck said:


Not true, there are some politicians out there who actually believe in what they say and project such as Ron Paul who vowed to lower his wage to $40k a year in support of the 99% if he gets elected.


Err, that would be $0.001 per person and year for that 99%. Big help. At least for the number of the votes he gets. Don"t think you can buy any food or whatever else is needed with that money… And $360 000 is no number that matters anymore when you are rich enough to be able to candidate for president.

And from what I read this hole thing reminds me of an episode from the tv show The Tudors I saw last week: A huge rebellion army faces a definetly inferior one send by the king. The royalists won. How? Cause someone said "There will be a group of people discussing your problems, we respect your needs, you can go home now." No concession, just something like "As soon as I am elected wonder will happen." Rebels went home, thinking they had won. Next episode the leaders of the rebellion will get killed. There is still PIPA and ACTA is also still out there, and I have no idea how the will name their next tries, freedom is a threat to their old and turned-out-not-to-work-anymore business models, they won"t stop threatening it.

WASD
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:21 pm

"Do not take this concession as a victory! This is an old trick. Please spread the word and call them out repeatedly. 1: Make crazy offer (SOPA) 2: Client rejects crazy offer (us) 3: Make a "reasonable" offer (PIPA) 4: Client accepts offer because it seems reasonable compared to crazy offer. Don't let up."

So lets change the protest to PIPA. Wikipedia will also join! http://thenextweb.com/insider/.....inst-sopa/

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Jongoleur
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:45 pm

benatweb said:


...

And from what I read this hole thing reminds me of an episode from the tv show The Tudors I saw last week: A huge rebellion army faces a definetly inferior one send by the king. The royalists won. How? Cause someone said "There will be a group of people discussing your problems, we respect your needs, you can go home now." No concession, just something like "As soon as I am elected wonder will happen." Rebels went home, thinking they had won. Next episode the leaders of the rebellion will get killed.

...



I never watched The Tudors, it was a bit too glossy, like Dallas with Codpieces.... 

However, the incident you describe sounds like "The Pilgrimage of Grace" in the reign of Henry VIII, which did indeed proceed along those lines.  The funny thing is that in the reign of Richard II, a little under two centuries previously, there was the Peasants Revolt, which was pretty similar - rebellion, seeming concessions then topping the leaders of the rebellion and many of the rebellious serfs.  The mob facing Henry VIII didn't know their history and so were suckers for the "I'll right your wrongs" approach.

Moving to more modern times, Henry Ford declared that "History is (more or less) bunk", an idea that works well for the purveyors of such tripe as SOPA, PIPA and all the other acronyms of dread. If people forget, then its easy to work a bait and switch contrick to try and dazzle the punter into choosing amongst essentially identical badly drafted repressive pieces of legislation.  And if one fails, then it'll come back with a new name under a new administration and no one will be the wiser.

All we need do is keep up the Jeffersonian vigilance, and the Blank Day is a good idea, even if the particular measure has been "withdrawn".

10+3.  HA!
I'm just a bouncer, splatterers do it with more force.....

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abishur
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:33 pm

To be fair, this has little (i.e. nothing) to do with the "top 1%" it's the record and movie companies buying off senators wholesale to push an agenda.
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willrandship
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:44 pm

Also, being rich doesn't make you evil. That's not to say there aren't evil rich people, or even that the majority of them aren't, I'm just saying that you are stereotyping when you say the entire "1%" is corrupt and should be destroyed.

Omnamah
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:18 pm

Abishur said:


To be fair, this has little (i.e. nothing) to do with the "top 1%" it's the record and movie companies buying off senators wholesale to push an agenda.



Aren't the top execs of companies and corporations counted as the '1%'? To take one beautiful example: Rupert Murdoch.

willrandship said:


Also, being rich doesn't make you evil. That's not to say there aren't evil rich people, or even that the majority of them aren't, I'm just saying that you are stereotyping when you say the entire "1%" is corrupt and should be destroyed.



But being evil can go a long way to making you rich. Capitalism breeds a dog-eat-dog mentality and a thoroughly realist outlook. I.e. record companies are losing money to piracy, they see a piece of legislation that could potentially (in their eyes at least) solve the problem, ergo they support it. But this is without them taking into account the implications the legislation could - dare I say will - have on internet freedoms (the best freedoms we have dammit!). Business is not moral. Good people don't go far in business. To reilliterate: being rich doesn't make you evil, but being evil is pretty likely to make you rich.

Brb, gonna go rob an old lady.

guyh
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:20 am

The supposed '1%' are not 'evil'; however to a man they have got to where they are through the exploitation of workers and/or nature.

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RaTTuS
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:35 am



http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl.....regulation

but this thread should be in off topic really
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nichobb
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:15 am

With regards to SOPA/PIPA I think even now everyone is backing away like mad the protests need to continue so it becomes an area of political suicide to attempt global censorship again.

American politicians are massively corrupt from all I can see. How else do career politicians become multi millionaires? Rick Perry is a good example, get option to buy land from a company cheap, short time later sell land for profit of $850k to another company. Both of which benefit from laws you passed screwing people whi elected you. UK ones also on the make (maybe not to this scale … excluding Blair).

1% is a good slogan but really not the point and leads to this argument about good/evil. It"s the gap between poor and rich that needs to be addressed. My main worry about "1%" is it becomes lies, damn lies and statistics (part of my job) and a PR war. I"m in the top 10% income wise (last time I checked boundaries do move), so what is the formula for how evil I"ve become, or is my sainthood safe till I tip to the 1%?
On the other hand Bond villains do seem to be exclusively from the 1% or trying to get there…

Edit: was even longer

The Cageybee
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:15 pm

As correctly pointed out by another user, SOPA has NOT been scrapped, it has been shelved and is likely to come back again.

As for the act itself, it's not that the legislation came along then the MPAA et al saw it, thought: "We like this. Let's support it.", it was written BY the likes of MPAA then pushed through lobbying.

Which brings us on to lobbying. I really find it hard to believe that the "Greatest democracy on Earth" has corruption worked right into system. It's essentially legalized corruption. As we've seen as this act has gone through the system, lobbying dollars count more to the politicians than either right mindedness or the will of the people. That was until the unprecedented action taken by numerous sites to publicise the issue and and encourage people to register their decent to their senators, etc. Don't be fooled though. With an election looming the act has become toxic as the politicians seek to put as much distance between it and themselves in fear of lost votes. As soon as the election is over you can guarantee the act will rear its head again.

As for the 99%/1% thing. In the states there's a well worn (I'd say worn out, but I digress) path to stop all rational debate on the inequalities of the system. It goes a little like this:


It's pointed out that the already huge gap between the haves and have-nots is growing inexorably larger. Talk begins about redistribution of wealth to lower that gap.
A well orchestrated machine swings into action to shut down any debate. This inevitably results in any such calls as to be labeled "Communism" and therefore "Unamerican", and therefore any person seeking equality is labeled in the media as an enemy of the "American way".
US public at large hear those buzz words and helpfully fall into line and disregard any thought of changing the system.

This is phenomenon which is unique to America, a hang over from the 1950's and McCarthyism.

Unfortunately, it's a situation that's not going to change anytime soon as those in charge of the mass media in the states quite like the status quo and happily fall in line.

virtualuk
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:00 pm

Just to throw my 2c in here...

I'm glad that SOPA-day has been and gone, it sees the passing of two ridiculous things.  SOPA/PIPA in their current form would have never have been passed in a month of Sundays.  A law is only as good as it is enforceable, the provisions in SOPA/PIPA were as futile as to trying to ban people from breathing.  I vehemently oppose SOPA/PIPA, but that's like saying I oppose seal clubbing... I don't go around telling people they can't contact me today because I'm protesting about seal clubbing.

Which brings me to the other ridiculous thing.  The "protests" by sites such as RPi.  Why?  Action without consequence is merely demonstration.  Demonstration serves to educate, but you'd have to be fairly self righteous to consider that the actions of a particular website trafficked by an already tech savvy crowd was somehow going to lead to better education on the subject than what was already being presented by all the opinion, news review and debate going on at journalism sources around the globe.  Google was still up and running yesterday, Wikipedia was still available (for anyone using their mobile app), and the gamut of companies that used the "blackout" as a PR/advertising vehicle was reprehensible.  My inbox was full of companies that were so called supporting the cause by having a blackout, only to find that the sites were still available and the emails advertising the blackout were just a huge rouse to drive rubberneckers to their site so that they could present their latest deal of the day (, while their 'protest' was slapping a black box over portion of their logo while screaming at you about their latest deals).

SOPA/PIPA are unnecessary, there are existing laws out there to be able to prosecute those behind piracy.  SOPA/PIPA is just the warm up act, a legislation version of bait & switch IMHO... tell them you're going to cut off their head so that everyone is up in arms, and then switch and just give them a pain in the arse later which less people would care about because it's so much 'better' than having your head chopped off.

Anyhow, rant over...

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grumpyoldgit
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:07 pm

It's a matter of standing up and being counted. It's the same with issues like opposition tofactory farming, unrestricted  access to the countryside, protection of woodland, etc, etc. Unless a mass of individuals are prepared to write to their MPs, post on blogs, etc. how do the twats in government know we care? This very site is about encouraging the programmers of the future and has involved the lobbying of MPs, educationalists and others who have the power to make changes.

ziltro
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Re: Why are you protesting SOPA when Eric Cantor stopped all action towards it?

Thu Jan 19, 2012 4:36 pm

Why do people care so much about an american internet censorship law which hasn't happened yet when nobody seems to care at all that the uk is already under internet censorship?

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