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Yanazake
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Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:59 pm

What the title says. I can and would get the original one, if it wasn't for two issues.

a: I need to stick both heatsinks and fan on the pi, preferably locking the fan on the case so it can suck the air instead of blowing it.
b: Heatsinks and fans are pretty overpriced where I am, so i'm looking for a kit with them and a well-ventilated case.

That said, someone was really rude on another forum even tho they provided some important info. "This case is probably going to ruin your Pi". While I never said which case I got, the one pointed was very similar, which made me went looking for another option.

Plans are for getting the RPi3B+, so that's probably worth noting.

This is the model I found after the warning. I'm gonna get a clear one, not blue tho. Doubt that is important. Still, it seems like enough.

And then there's this one. It looks a bit better, even if bulkier. More holes for airflow and better place to fix the fan.

Finally, there's this one. It is surprisingly thin with and comes with dual fan/heatsink setup. Not sure how well the airflow is on it, tho.

These were the options I found, but I'd like to hear if anyone has any feedback to say about them, or if there is any extra suggestion. I just want to keep my Pi away from overheating and dust.

jahboater
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:53 pm

This case is frequently recommended:
https://thepihut.com/products/flirc-ras ... i-3-b-case
No fan is needed as the aluminum case itself acts as a large heat sink.
(Which is a huge advantage).

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Yanazake
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:32 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:53 pm
This case is frequently recommended.
https://thepihut.com/products/flirc-ras ... i-3-b-case
No fan is needed as the aluminium case itself acts as a large heat sink.
(This is a huge advantage).
Wow, this is great info, thanks! I was avoiding the metal/alluminium cases for being afraid of short circuits and the like. I'm not sure I can get this case because my issue here is "plz ship to Brazil", which is very unlikely. Does any alluiminium case does that?

wolf.z
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:02 pm

As a first hands on, the Flirc case maintains about 8-10°C less in my case, probably even less CPU temp compared to a plastic case. That's a lot.
Concerning fans, you should think of fans as 1) dirt and dust blowers 2) annoying sound sources, the smaller, the annoying.
There were issues with cheap fans reported, spilling much EMI, especially when mounted that close to the raspberry. However, I can't judge the probability but be aware of such possible interference.

chniyeba
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 4:58 pm

jahboater wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:53 pm
This case is frequently recommended:
https://thepihut.com/products/flirc-ras ... i-3-b-case
No fan is needed as the aluminum case itself acts as a large heat sink.
(Which is a huge advantage).
I'm also looking for a replace for the case as the PO first post I'm using a similar case and I'm not satisfied on the air flow, thanks for posting this.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:15 pm

If you cannot get the FLIRC case delivered to Brazil, another option may be to buy the Kintaro heatsink. Many people have reported positively about it.
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jahboater
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:33 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 7:15 pm
another option may be to buy the Kintaro heatsink. Many people have reported positively about it.
Yes, that's what I use. Beats everything. No throttling ever.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kintaro-Alumin ... SNZYK?th=1

There is also this new KODI version of the FLIRC case
https://thepihut.com/products/kodi-edit ... ry-pi-case

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Yanazake
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:35 pm

I'm taking notes, and while I can understand that bad fans can cause issues, but I really can't avoid a fan AND heatsink.

Thanks a lot for your feedback, I'll be sure to look harder before choosing one.

And if anyone has any info on these items or good alternatives in worldwide shipping sites... [stuff like aliexpress] please do post or PM me some links!

jahboater
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:42 pm

Yanazake wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:35 pm
but I really can't avoid a fan AND heatsink.
Why, just out of interest?

For the Pi3B+, most people do not even need a heat sink. The new model has great thermal inertia, so it can run programs for some time without warming up much. For extreme, sustained loads, a heat sink may help it avoid throttling.
Yanazake wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:35 pm
Plans are for getting the RPi3B+, so that's probably worth noting.
When it arrives, I suggest you try it without any heat sink for a couple of weeks. Then if your workloads are high and you can see its been throttling, try a good heatsink. Monitor the temps while running a large job.

The Pi cannot be damaged by overheating, if it gets too hot it will simply reduce the speed and voltage to keep itself safe (called throttling).

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Yanazake
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:32 am

I live in Brazil, and it is pretty common for eletronics to just fry up here after some months of intense use during summer. They work well for a while, but the more delicate ones just won't like our summer. Happened to consoles, happened to normal computers, I -really- don't want to give the Pi any overheating chances.
jahboater wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:42 pm
When it arrives, I suggest you try it without any heat sink for a couple of weeks. Then if your workloads are high and you can see its been throttling, try a good heatsink. Monitor the temps while running a large job.

The Pi cannot be damaged by overheating, if it gets too hot it will simply reduce the speed and voltage to keep itself safe (called throttling).
I'd probably have to use it without any protection until I get a case anyway, and the plans are getting any combo because everything is overpriced in here. At least I can't understand how heatsinks less than 1 USD, even with the money difference, shoots up to 20 R$. They should be around 4, 5 even. I'd accept 8, but 20 is just robbery. If they were larger, like the last heatsink mentioned here, then SURE, it's something worth paying that much for, maybe even more.

The plans are emulation, I want to try psp and arcade mostly, and I know these are heavy, while still able to run. That, and with a second SD card, I wanted to try doing art on it, using gimp or other program in conjunction with my old wacom. This is as a means of backup if my desktop stops working, which happened in the past. Maybe I'm just unlucky with computers.

-----------

OH RIGHT, just a final question: How hard i it to swap a heatsink if the need arises? I mean, I got something better and/or need to swap them to fit the case or something like that. I saw on a youtube video that a new one isn't that hard, but what about when it gets old?

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:04 am

The Pi doesn't include any way to mount a heatsink (it uses an old cellphone processor after all - what cellphone has a heatsink?)
So removing your heatsink and replacing it entirely depends on how you mount it.

In my case, one SBC I use simply has the heatsink held in place by nothing more than the thermal compound I used between it and the SOC. The compound is sticky enough that it holds well even when hot, but I wouldn't use it on its edge.

An alternative is a drop of hot glue betweenn the PCB and the side of the heatsink. A bit harder to remove though, but not impossible.
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mooblie
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:28 am

This video shows some other DIY heatsink mounting possibilities, if you're handy with a bit of hardware bashing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AYGnw6MwFM

jahboater
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:28 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:04 am
The Pi doesn't include any way to mount a heatsink (it uses an old cellphone processor after all - what cellphone has a heatsink?)
So removing your heatsink and replacing it entirely depends on how you mount it.

In my case, one SBC I use simply has the heatsink held in place by nothing more than the thermal compound I used between it and the SOC. The compound is sticky enough that it holds well even when hot, but I wouldn't use it on its edge.
The Kintaro heatsink is mounted with four bolts, using the normal Pi mounting holes.
That means you can use any thermal compound of choice (the supplied TIM is good), instead of thermal tape.

I mount the board on edge for the best convection airflow.

The Pi CPU's draw very little power compared to an x86 processor.
They are designed specifically for use without a heat sink, in any country.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kintaro-Alumin ... SNZYK?th=1

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mooblie
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:48 pm

When following the link above, do remember that that Amazon page carries TWO versions of this heatsink:

- one for the Pi 2 and 3B
- one for the Pi 3B+.

Make sure to get the right one!

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Yanazake
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:06 pm

@Mooblie
Thanks for pointing that!

@jahboater
This heatsink looks just beautiful, seriously. I'd love to find out the producer's page instead of amazon but there's very little data on it online for whatever reason.
And about the heat, Well, I do want to push the pi, and I grew up to not be carefree about my country's heat in any way. I probably won't be able to get this heatsink in an easy way, but I really want to follow it for future projects, specially if/when I move out to another country, as I'm planning. Purchasing these, and any other eletronic device or its parts will be infinitely easier.


Also, thank you all for sharing your experiences! I managed to get a metal case for myself, with heatsinks and a fan. I'll try them one by one and post feedback here. Luckly, I got some rubber sticky feet that are going under the case. to keep it from slipping a bit.

jahboater
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:23 pm

Yanazake wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:06 pm
@jahboater
This heatsink looks just beautiful, seriously. I'd love to find out the producer's page instead of amazon but there's very little data on it online for whatever reason.
The producers page is here:-
https://www.kintaro.co/products/kintaro-custom-heatsink

https://www.kintaro.co

Not much info!
I don't know its rating in degrees C/watt
It cools the SoC and the ethernet/USB chip (which can get hotter than the SoC).

I have found that things like a 15,000 line C compilation will raise the temp by a couple of degrees (absolutely nothing):-
Using all four cores flat out for a few hours gets it rather higher, but still below the throttling threshold.
A crazy pathological stress test using NEON SIMD on all four cores might just reach the 70C throttling point.
This is a simple compilation:-

Code: Select all

$ ./pistat.sh 
Time      Temp    CPU         Throttle       Vcore
22:32:49 34.9'C  600MHz 00000000000000000000 1.2V
22:32:54 34.9'C 1400MHz 00000000000000000000 1.3250V
22:32:59 35.4'C 1400MHz 00000000000000000000 1.3250V
22:33:04 36.5'C 1400MHz 00000000000000000000 1.3250V
22:33:09 34.9'C  600MHz 00000000000000000000 1.2V
22:33:14 34.9'C  600MHz 00000000000000000000 1.2V
Last edited by jahboater on Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:33 pm

Yanazake wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:32 am
I live in Brazil, and it is pretty common for eletronics to just fry up here after some months of intense use during summer. They work well for a while, but the more delicate ones just won't like our summer. Happened to consoles, happened to normal computers, I -really- don't want to give the Pi any overheating chances.
If it's just heat, check with the folks using Pis in Australia...I think it gets hotter there than anywhere in Brazil. If it's a combination of heat and humidity, that might be another matter and a sealed case with internal air circulation plus a de-humidifier might be the way to go.

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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:34 pm

Imperf3kt wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:04 am
The Pi doesn't include any way to mount a heatsink (it uses an old cellphone processor after all - what cellphone has a heatsink?)
Every cell phone has a heat sink...though most people call it "the case".

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:27 am

W. H. Heydt wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:33 pm
Yanazake wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:32 am
I live in Brazil, and it is pretty common for eletronics to just fry up here after some months of intense use during summer. They work well for a while, but the more delicate ones just won't like our summer. Happened to consoles, happened to normal computers, I -really- don't want to give the Pi any overheating chances.
If it's just heat, check with the folks using Pis in Australia...I think it gets hotter there than anywhere in Brazil. If it's a combination of heat and humidity, that might be another matter and a sealed case with internal air circulation plus a de-humidifier might be the way to go.
*raises hand*
8:30pm, currently 34 degrees Celcius, 62% humidity.
Pi works fine under extreme loads.
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HawaiianPi
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:34 pm

Yanazake wrote:
Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:35 pm
... but I really can't avoid a fan AND heatsink.
You only think that, but you've never had a Pi so you don't actually know that. The Pi computers are based on mobile technology, and the SoC will run normally at temperatures up to 70C, which would be painfully hot to touch. Above 70C they will thermally throttle (reduce performance to protect the SoC from damage) so they won't "fry" in warm locations.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that most of the small, cheap heatsinks sold for the Pi don't come with proper thermal adhesive. They only have double-sided plastic tape (which is an insulator). That makes them far less effective, to the point of being practically useless. I've even seen some cases where the crappy heatsinks performed worse than the fan alone (this would be even more likely with the newer 3B+ model).

The fanless Flirc Gen2 case will outperform most of the cheap cases that come with fans and tiny heatsinks, without the noise or additional power requirements of fans (and without filling your system with dust). Find a dealer that will send one your way. Many of the UK dealers ship worldwide (I ordered stuff from the UK when I lived in Hawaii, and the shipping was reasonable).

The Kintaro heatsink will slightly outperform the Flirc case, likely because it uses thermal paste instead of a pad, but it's not a case, so it doesn't protect the system, and its performance will be affected if you put it in a case (it's also incompatible with some cases).

So my first recommendation would be the Flirc Gen2 case for the 3B/3B+ models. It not only keeps them running cool, it looks cool as well.

My second recommendation would be the Kintaro heatsink in an open sided (or very well ventilated) case. An example of an open sided case would be something like this. With a Kintaro heatsink and a case like that, you probably wouldn't even need to use the fan.
My mind is like a browser. 27 tabs are open, 9 aren't responding,
lots of pop-ups...and where is that annoying music coming from?

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WillBoxOwO
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 pm

HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:34 pm
My second recommendation would be the Kintaro heatsink in an open sided (or very well ventilated) case. An example of an open sided case would be something like this. With a Kintaro heatsink and a case like that, you probably wouldn't even need to use the fan.
DONT. Its noisy as hell... Even when im 4-5 meters from it, it sounds like a jet. Go for the flirk case!
Edit: I was talking about the open sided case.. :)
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Yanazake
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:18 am

Thanks a lot for the links and information, guys. I'll take what you all are saying and try to perform stress tests under all conditions, like I mentioned earlier. Also, I got a metal case to help with it "being a heatsink itself" for the pi. Not the one you recommended because, again...

AMAZON DOES NOT SHIP PROPERLY ANYTHING BUT DISCS AND BOOKS TO BRAZIL. I can't buy eletronics on it.

And if it does, tho, I'll likely be paying the product's price again. Believe me, I tried once to give up halfway thanks to all the headaches it was making me go through.

That said, I'll have to wait for january now to try my setup. Some parts will arrive, some I'll buy locally. Y'all will be updated about it when the time comes. :D

---

You guys seem very concerned with noisy fans and vibration. How bad is that for the pi? [I can understand the issue with a bad fan leaking some grease or whatever on the pi...]
Also, instead of blowing air on it, I planned on sucking air from the case and blowing away. Doesn't this collects less dust?
Last edited by Yanazake on Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Imperf3kt
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:28 am

WillBoxOwO wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:04 pm
HawaiianPi wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:34 pm
My second recommendation would be the Kintaro heatsink in an open sided (or very well ventilated) case. An example of an open sided case would be something like this. With a Kintaro heatsink and a case like that, you probably wouldn't even need to use the fan.
DONT. Its noisy as hell... Even when im 4-5 meters from it, it sounds like a jet. Go for the flirk case!
Edit: I was talking about the open sided case.. :)
What kind of fan generates so much noise?
If it's that noisy, you may benefit from rubber grommets between the fan and the mounting point and possibly a drop of sowing machine oil on the bearings. None of my fans sound like a jet, I can barely hear the little 40mm things I use.
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WillBoxOwO
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:25 am

Imperf3kt wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:28 am
What kind of fan generates so much noise?
If it's that noisy, you may benefit from rubber grommets between the fan and the mounting point and possibly a drop of sowing machine oil on the bearings. None of my fans sound like a jet, I can barely hear the little 40mm things I use.
If you want, I can post a video of my noisy case. Trust me, its real noisy. Even when the fan is out of its case, it stills sounds like a jet.

And to answer OP s question, to blow air on it is way better if you plan on using an opened case. Temperatures doesnt go higher than 50 c. If you invert the fan, youll get almost 60 c. I clean up my case every 3-4 months or so.
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Yanazake
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Re: Need a case, heatsinks and fan. Also "is this a bad case?"

Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:42 am

Well, guess I'll have to go that way then. Testing for every option will happen nonetheless, but I'm sure the fan won't be that strong. Sadly my case will arrive only by the end of january, if I'm lucky.

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