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STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:25 am
by hansotten
A new Pi! Good surprise again!

Saw the announcement at Pimorono's Bilgetank!

From the blog by Eben:

TL;DR: you can now get the 1.4GHz clock speed, 5GHz wireless networking and improved thermals of Raspberry Pi 3B+ in a smaller form factor, and at the smaller price of $25. Meet the Raspberry Pi 3 Model A+.

In some ways this is rather a poignant product for us. Back in March, we explained that the 3+ platform is the final iteration of the “classic” Raspberry Pi: whatever we do next will of necessity be less of an evolution, because it will need new core silicon, on a new process node, with new memory technology. So 3A+ is about closing things out in style, answering one of our most frequent customer requests, and clearing the decks so we can start to think seriously about what comes next.


So a new Pi, disruptive from the 'classic' Pi is coming!

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:51 am
by LTolledo
Is already on my Christmas shopping list....

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:01 am
by mikerr
Same A+ form factor and ports but gains the 3's CPU and WiFi/BT

A 1.4GHz 64-bit quad-core ARM Cortex-A53 CPU
512MB LPDDR2 SDRAM
Dual-band 802.11ac wireless LAN
Bluetooth 4.2/BLE

my only minor grumble is that 512MB ram.

With WiFi connectivity built in it makes the single usb far less restrictive and usable.

Inevitable comparison to pi zero W:
10x faster
Full size ports
Audio jack
Available in any quantity

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:44 am
by Gavinmc42
whatever we do next will of necessity be less of an evolution
So next one will be revolutionary?
Less of an evolution is Devolution?

Anyway, time to practice coding tighter.
Mobil robots with CV?

I guess this means full steam ahead with Pi4, perhaps roadmap for 5, 6 ?

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:53 am
by hansotten
mikerr wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:01 am

my only minor grumble is that 512MB ram.
Yea, bit of a disappointment. Reasons may be a combination of cost saving and less power usage.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:56 am
by jamesh
hansotten wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:53 am
mikerr wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:01 am

my only minor grumble is that 512MB ram.
Yea, bit of a disappointment. Reasons may be a combination of cost saving and less power usage.
Cost. The A range has always had less memory to keep costs down, not sure why this would be a surprise.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:58 am
by jamesh
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:44 am
whatever we do next will of necessity be less of an evolution
So next one will be revolutionary?
Less of an evolution is Devolution?

Anyway, time to practice coding tighter.
Mobil robots with CV?

I guess this means full steam ahead with Pi4, perhaps roadmap for 5, 6 ?
Revolutionary. The Pi4 looks pretty good to me! 5 and 6 also have impressive specs, although subject to change this far ahead, and there's a lot of work required for them.

Meanwhile, enjoy the current range, it's a while yet before the Pi4 comes out.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:07 am
by RaTTuS
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:58 am
....
Meanwhile, enjoy the current range, it's a while yet before the Pi4 comes out.
lets make a wild guess
Saturday Feb 29th 2020... ;-p

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:11 am
by tweak42
Since the hub etc is gone, can the USB port be flipped to OTG mode like the Zero?

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:30 am
by bensimmo
tweak42 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:11 am
Since the hub etc is gone, can the USB port be flipped to OTG mode like the Zero?
The A+ sort of could, but the full size socket doesn't have the extra select pin.
https://gist.github.com/gbaman/50b6cca61dd1c3f88f41

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:35 am
by hippy
So 3A+ is about closing things out in style answering one of our most frequent customer requests
That will please W. H. Heydt who has long argued the case for having a 3A+.

I'm not sure though how these frequent requests make it through to Eben seeing how any discussion of desired product or features is quickly shut down on the forum with some members regularly being quick off the mark to tell us that such requests are "pi in the sky thinking" and making the case for new product is "just hot air and insulting to RPT/RPF".

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:40 am
by hippy
Revision codes need updating to include the 3A+ -

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /README.md

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:43 am
by DirkS
hippy wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:40 am
Revision codes need updating to include the 3A+ -

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /README.md
Already changed on Github viewtopic.php?f=72&t=226965&p=1392119#p1392119

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:46 am
by jamesh
DirkS wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:43 am
hippy wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:40 am
Revision codes need updating to include the 3A+ -

https://www.raspberrypi.org/documentati ... /README.md
Already changed on Github viewtopic.php?f=72&t=226965&p=1392119#p1392119
Takes about an hour to get from github to the website.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:54 am
by jamesh
hippy wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:35 am
So 3A+ is about closing things out in style answering one of our most frequent customer requests
That will please W. H. Heydt who has long argued the case for having a 3A+.

I'm not sure though how these frequent requests make it through to Eben seeing how any discussion of desired product or features is quickly shut down on the forum with some members regularly being quick off the mark to tell us that such requests are "pi in the sky thinking" and making the case for new product is "just hot air and insulting to RPT/RPF".
I cannot think of a single feature request made on the forums that hasn't already been thought of internally, which is one of the reasons why threads on the subject get locked. RPF(T) know what is possible and what is impossible, we also know what other competitor products provide, we also know future chip development plans from suppliers. We also know what we can do to meet price points given technological advancements, and general chip pricing. We know a lot about the market we are in. If I ever see something on the forums that I think "Ooh, that's a good idea" it gets passed on. That has happened about twice in 7 years, and both had, IIRC, been already considered.

We also have a roadmap for the next 5 years. Which could change, but not the Pi4, that's pretty much set in stone.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:56 am
by hippy
Do the RPT know when FCC documentation on the 3A+ is due to appear ... ?

https://fccid.io/2ABCB

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:00 am
by Gavinmc42
Nicely done, a rev 1.0.
That means things went smoothly ;)

Rats, a one per customer limit?

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:03 am
by jamesh
hippy wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:56 am
Do the RPT know when FCC documentation on the 3A+ is due to appear ... ?

https://fccid.io/2ABCB
I am waiting for it to be sent to me so I can upload it, don't know what the schedule is.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:06 am
by jamesh
Gavinmc42 wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:00 am
Nicely done, a rev 1.0.
That means things went smoothly ;)

Rats, a one per customer limit?
There should be no limit to sales quantities of the 3A+. Might be limits in the first few days if everyone rushes to buy at once, but shouldn't be long before you can buy in whatever quantities you want.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:16 am
by MrEngman
Pimoroni currently have a limit of 2.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:55 am
by fanoush
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:56 am
hansotten wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:53 am
mikerr wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:01 am
my only minor grumble is that 512MB ram.
Yea, bit of a disappointment. Reasons may be a combination of cost saving and less power usage.
Cost. The A range has always had less memory to keep costs down, not sure why this would be a surprise.
The A came when there was no Zero, now Zero was the way to keep cost and memory down. Yes, it is understandable why it has 512 but still I am a bit surprised you did this in year 2018. Probably sensible business decision to not to eat B+ profits (as 512 makes sure it is hardly usable as desktop) while still having many use cases. Will be good paired with DVB-T2 hat and media center :-)

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:52 pm
by jamesh
fanoush wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:55 am
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:56 am
hansotten wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:53 am

Yea, bit of a disappointment. Reasons may be a combination of cost saving and less power usage.
Cost. The A range has always had less memory to keep costs down, not sure why this would be a surprise.
The A came when there was no Zero, now Zero was the way to keep cost and memory down. Yes, it is understandable why it has 512 but still I am a bit surprised you did this in year 2018. Probably sensible business decision to not to eat B+ profits (as 512 makes sure it is hardly usable as desktop) while still having many use cases. Will be good paired with DVB-T2 hat and media center :-)
This sort of post I find odd. We have a range of devices, from $5 to $10 to $15 to $20 to $25 to $35. For that money you get an increasing scale of features. You basically get what you pay for! You want 1GB? Buy a 3B+.

Of course, the educational aimed and subsisdised low end Zeros's ($5 and $10) are not really representative, because they are subsidised, so really you need to start the scale with the ZeroWH which is a product that can exist without subsidy.

The 3A+ will have a market - headless devices that need power but not memory (which is actually most applications, anyone who thinks they need 1GB of RAM probably needs to fix their code). No need to increase the price to $30 and have 1GB.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:59 pm
by hippy
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:52 pm
We have a range of devices, from $5 to $10 to $15 to $20 to $25 to $35. For that money you get an increasing scale of features. You basically get what you pay for!
The Foundation do seem to have managed a good spread of price / performance / features. Currently it seems to me to be, roughly -

Code: Select all

             No Wi-Fi     No Wi-Fi     Wi-Fi       Wi-Fi
              No LAN        LAN        No LAN       LAN

      4 :       -            2B         3A+        3B/3B+
Cores
      1 :  A/A+ / Zero      B/B+       Zero W        -

Code: Select all

             No Wi-Fi     No Wi-Fi     Wi-Fi       Wi-Fi
              No LAN        LAN        No LAN       LAN

      4 :       -           $20         $25         $35
Cores
      1 :      $10           -          $15          -
I imagine there probably was some discussion on whether the 3A+ should be 512MB at $25 or 1GB at $30.

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:16 pm
by hippy
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:52 pm
Of course, the educational aimed and subsisdised low end Zeros's ($5 and $10) are not really representative, because they are subsidised
Are they actually "subsidised" or just sold at zero or near zero profit ?

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:23 pm
by jamesh
hippy wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:16 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:52 pm
Of course, the educational aimed and subsisdised low end Zeros's ($5 and $10) are not really representative, because they are subsidised
Are they actually "subsidised" or just sold at zero or near zero profit ?
Zero profit, or close, to does imply that the people who sell it make no money on it, so therefor subsidise it in that it costs money to sell product.