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Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:32 pm
by W. H. Heydt
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:12 pm
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:44 pm
I'm trying to be excited about this, but that RAM just kills it for me. Why would anyone need so much processing power, but next to no RAM?

Is it possible, provided one has the tools and skills, to remove the 512MB chip and replace it with a 1GB chip?
Theoretically it seems possible.

And before you complain, Jamesh, I ask because not everyone has the luxury of controlling how much RAM their software needs. Take Raspbian for example, it won't run on 32Kb.
:lol: That is a smart comeback. Personally I hope the future Pi will not have stupid naming systems like the iPhone XS Max.
The original Model B, Model A, and the early A+ all had 256MB. The Model A was *supposed* to launch with 128MB, but it became feasible to start it off with 256MB. And people are complaining about 512MB....

My expectation: *If* RAM prices drop enough, *then* (and only then) we might see a 1GB Pi3A+. My guess is that the RPT lines up component supplies (like RAM packages) on a long term basis. They probably have a contract in place for roughly a 1 year supply of RAM chips. If prices come down, the supplier is willing to cut a better deal, or Pi3A+ boards sell faster than anticipated (according the The Register, Dr. Upton expects to sell 500K Pi3A+ boards per year), or some combination of all three, one might see a 1GB version.

I would consider it more likely that we will see a larger memory size on whatever turns out to be the next A-series Pi. Perhaps a Pi4A or Pi5A several years from now. On the flip side of that, people will complain that it has "only" 1GB of RAM while the B-series counterpart has 2GB (or 2GB and 4GB...take your pick).

Re: Pi 3 A+ !!

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:33 pm
by jamesh
DarkPlatinum wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:49 pm
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:54 am
We also have a roadmap for the next 5 years. Which could change, but not the Pi4, that's pretty much set in stone.
Can I be King Arthur the person who pulled the Pi from stone?
I doubt anything wil change on the Pi4, too far along in development, so the sword wil remain firmly installed in the stone.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:35 pm
by Imperf3kt
jamesh wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:30 pm
Imperf3kt wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:44 pm
I'm trying to be excited about this, but that RAM just kills it for me. Why would anyone need so much processing power, but next to no RAM?

Is it possible, provided one has the tools and skills, to remove the 512MB chip and replace it with a 1GB chip?
Theoretically it seems possible.

And before you complain, Jamesh, I ask because not everyone has the luxury of controlling how much RAM their software needs. Take Raspbian for example, it won't run on 32Kb.
Not everyone has to be excited about it. Those for whom it has no interest can remain unexcited, those for whom it does the job can be excited.

I believe Raspbian lite takes about 300MB, perhaps less. leaving over 200MB for your software to run in. You can do a lot in 200MB. Or roll your own distro, and you can get in under 100MB in use, leaving much more RAM for your software.

If you need more RAM, use a 3B+. It has more RAM.
Oh don't get me wrong, I've got one on the way and I already have a PI with 1Gb of RAM.
I was hoping the Pi 3A+ could help alleviate my issues with powering my project.
The removal of the unwanted power hungry LAN chip is absolutely wonderful for me, and saves me the hassle of further modifying my Pi3b, but the halving of RAM, though understandable why it was done, means things may not go as smoothly as I would like while transitioning to a Pi3A+

Will have to just wait and see if it performs once it arrives on Monday.
My guesstimate is that it won't do what I want of it, my program uses about 220Mb (on the low end) and needs the desktop version of Raspbian installed, with the GPU allocated around 224Mb or more of RAM

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:59 am
by ash73
Surely they'll give us a Pi 3.14 before the Pi 4?

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:02 am
by W. H. Heydt
ash73 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:59 am
Surely they'll give us a Pi 3.14 before the Pi 4?
Just buy 22 Pi7Bs.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:34 am
by Paul Hutch
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:27 pm
I think someone needs to have a little chat with Premier Farnell as this https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... p/80AC9303 page shows the Pi3A+ with a price of $47.30. Since it's a US site, that's without taxes.
It looks like Newark is trying to move the over 100,000 Pi3B+ they have in stock and 20,000 more arriving in two weeks. In addition to the over the top pricing on 3A+ they have raised 3B to $41.25 :o
https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... dp/77Y6520

They still sell 3B+ for $35 in singles
https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/277 ... PI3-MODBP-*
and have 150 piece 3B+ bulk packs for $34 per unit.
https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... p/51AC3219

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:33 am
by W. H. Heydt
Paul Hutch wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:34 am
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:27 pm
I think someone needs to have a little chat with Premier Farnell as this https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... p/80AC9303 page shows the Pi3A+ with a price of $47.30. Since it's a US site, that's without taxes.
It looks like Newark is trying to move the over 100,000 Pi3B+ they have in stock and 20,000 more arriving in two weeks. In addition to the over the top pricing on 3A+ they have raised 3B to $41.25 :o
https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... dp/77Y6520

They still sell 3B+ for $35 in singles
https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/277 ... PI3-MODBP-*
and have 150 piece 3B+ bulk packs for $34 per unit.
https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... p/51AC3219
Whereas Allied, the US subsidiary of RS, is still selling Pi2Bv1.1: https://www.alliedelec.com/raspberry-pi ... /70465426/
they also list the Pi2Bv1.2 for $0.03 less: https://www.alliedelec.com/raspberry-pi ... /71032282/ and they claim that it runs at 1.2GHz (for the sake of those not up on the details...it doesn't; it runs at 900MHz, just like the Pi2Bv1.1).

They don't list the Pi3A+ at all.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:30 am
by RaTTuS
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:27 pm
I think someone needs to have a little chat with Premier Farnell as this https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/rpi ... p/80AC9303 page shows the Pi3A+ with a price of $47.30. Since it's a US site, that's without taxes.
removed link
[edit] DOH stupid eyes

is what I find there ...

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:08 am
by Paul Hutch
RaTTuS wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:30 am
https://www.newark.com/raspberry-pi/ras ... dp/81Y5333
is what I find there ...
That's a Pi1A+.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:24 pm
by bensimmo
For anyone that missed abit of chitchit about the Pi3A+ by MagPi
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/pi-3a-interview/

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:31 pm
by RaTTuS
Paul Hutch wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:08 am
...
That's a Pi1A+.
yarg stupid eyes - I've edited my post

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:31 pm
by W. H. Heydt
bensimmo wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:24 pm
For anyone that missed abit of chitchit about the Pi3A+ by MagPi
https://www.raspberrypi.org/magpi/pi-3a-interview/
The Register has an article: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/1 ... el_a_plus/

They quote Dr. Upton as saying that he expects to sell 500K of them in the next 12 months. (I find this mildly amusing, since he has been quoted as calling the Model A his one failure...because they sold "only" 100K of them.)

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:32 pm
by W. H. Heydt
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:00 pm
Despite all the "nay Sayers" this is

a) fantastic replacement for the RPi 1A+

b) great addition to the RPi family

Now we just need the RPi 2B v1.2 to be $30 to complete the $ 5/10/15/20/25/30/35 increment.....
That would work for me. I like the Pi2B (both versions) for any number of projects, but I'm not big on wireless (though I know many people are).

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:21 pm
by k-pi
Not sure which RPi3A+ thread to put this, but as this is a sticky, probably here. :)

Mine came this morning & I've been messing with it all day.

What I have found is that while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub, there isn't enough power for a keyboard & mouse as well. :(

If I try booting a microSDHC card & using the USB hub for my keyboard & mouse, they don't work. :(

If I use a wireless keyboard/mouse combo, it will boot from the microSDHC card & have keyboard & mouse access. :)

Not quite what I was hoping for, but still usable as a desktop computer. 8-)

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:42 pm
by fruitoftheloom
k-pi wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:21 pm
Not sure which RPi3A+ thread to put this, but as this is a sticky, probably here. :)

Mine came this morning & I've been messing with it all day.

What I have found is that while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub, there isn't enough power for a keyboard & mouse as well. :(

If I try booting a microSDHC card & using the USB hub for my keyboard & mouse, they don't work. :(

If I use a wireless keyboard/mouse combo, it will boot from the microSDHC card & have keyboard & mouse access. :)

Not quite what I was hoping for, but still usable as a desktop computer. 8-)

The RPi SBC is not a Desktop PC replacement.


How do you boot from an unpowered hub as stated in 3rd Paragraph ? the RPi needs electricity !


USB Hubs are finicky, USB3 can cause issues as can ones advertised as USB2 but are only USB1...


There are many Posts regarding USB Hubs, some very recent.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:51 pm
by W. H. Heydt
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:42 pm
The RPi SBC is not a Desktop PC replacement.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on your requirements to be a "desktop PC". For some people, a Pi3 class board will do the job, for others it won't.
How do you boot from an unpowered hub as stated in 3rd Paragraph ? the RPi needs electricity !
He didn't say the Pi3A+ was unpowered, just the hub. I'd bet the problem is some combination of the hub and the HDD chosen. Having seen the post, I'll run a couple of tests when I get my hands on a Pi3A+.
USB Hubs are finicky, USB3 can cause issues as can ones advertised as USB2 but are only USB1...

There are many Posts regarding USB Hubs, some very recent.
Indeed...I've made some myself.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:58 pm
by fruitoftheloom
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:51 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:42 pm
The RPi SBC is not a Desktop PC replacement.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on your requirements to be a "desktop PC". For some people, a Pi3 class board will do the job, for others it won't.
How do you boot from an unpowered hub as stated in 3rd Paragraph ? the RPi needs electricity !
He didn't say the Pi3A+ was unpowered, just the hub. I'd bet the problem is some combination of the hub and the HDD chosen. Having seen the post, I'll run a couple of tests when I get my hands on a Pi3A+.
USB Hubs are finicky, USB3 can cause issues as can ones advertised as USB2 but are only USB1...

There are many Posts regarding USB Hubs, some very recent.
Indeed...I've made some myself.

OP definitely stated "while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub"

What I have found is that while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub, there isn't enough power for a keyboard & mouse as well.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:52 pm
by W. H. Heydt
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:58 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:51 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:42 pm
The RPi SBC is not a Desktop PC replacement.
Maybe, maybe not. It depends on your requirements to be a "desktop PC". For some people, a Pi3 class board will do the job, for others it won't.
How do you boot from an unpowered hub as stated in 3rd Paragraph ? the RPi needs electricity !
He didn't say the Pi3A+ was unpowered, just the hub. I'd bet the problem is some combination of the hub and the HDD chosen. Having seen the post, I'll run a couple of tests when I get my hands on a Pi3A+.
USB Hubs are finicky, USB3 can cause issues as can ones advertised as USB2 but are only USB1...

There are many Posts regarding USB Hubs, some very recent.
Indeed...I've made some myself.

OP definitely stated "while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub"

What I have found is that while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub, there isn't enough power for a keyboard & mouse as well.
It feels odd to be the one defending the imprecision of English, but I think you have to read that a bit differently. Since he said it "will boot from an unpowered USB hub", clearly power was applied to the Pi. Therefore "unpowered" applies to the hub and not the Pi.

I would hope that--in the same situation--I would write something more like "it will boot from USB through an unpowered hub". And that is exactly a test I will run.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:05 pm
by fruitoftheloom
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:52 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:58 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:51 pm

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on your requirements to be a "desktop PC". For some people, a Pi3 class board will do the job, for others it won't.

He didn't say the Pi3A+ was unpowered, just the hub. I'd bet the problem is some combination of the hub and the HDD chosen. Having seen the post, I'll run a couple of tests when I get my hands on a Pi3A+.

Indeed...I've made some myself.

OP definitely stated "while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub"

What I have found is that while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub, there isn't enough power for a keyboard & mouse as well.
It feels odd to be the one defending the imprecision of English, but I think you have to read that a bit differently. Since he said it "will boot from an unpowered USB hub", clearly power was applied to the Pi. Therefore "unpowered" applies to the hub and not the Pi.

I would hope that--in the same situation--I would write something more like "it will boot from USB through an unpowered hub". And that is exactly a test I will run.

Still does not make any sense whichever way you shake it, nowhere does the OP state he is powering via the default USB power connector, GPIO or trying to USB backfired, clarity is all I ask !!!!!!

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:24 pm
by W. H. Heydt
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:05 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:52 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 4:58 pm



OP definitely stated "while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub"

What I have found is that while it will boot from an unpowered USB hub, there isn't enough power for a keyboard & mouse as well.
It feels odd to be the one defending the imprecision of English, but I think you have to read that a bit differently. Since he said it "will boot from an unpowered USB hub", clearly power was applied to the Pi. Therefore "unpowered" applies to the hub and not the Pi.

I would hope that--in the same situation--I would write something more like "it will boot from USB through an unpowered hub". And that is exactly a test I will run.

Still does not make any sense whichever way you shake it, nowhere does the OP state he is powering via the default USB power connector, GPIO or trying to USB backfired, clarity is all I ask !!!!!!
I'm afraid you're going to have to pick a different language in that case. English, as it is used, is frequently unclear and imprecise.

Since the OP said that the Pi booted, it must have been getting power from somewhere. Since he specifies and unpowered hub, it can't be from the hub, either directly to the PWR connector as back power.

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:56 pm
by fruitoftheloom
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:24 pm
fruitoftheloom wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:05 pm
W. H. Heydt wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 5:52 pm

It feels odd to be the one defending the imprecision of English, but I think you have to read that a bit differently. Since he said it "will boot from an unpowered USB hub", clearly power was applied to the Pi. Therefore "unpowered" applies to the hub and not the Pi.

I would hope that--in the same situation--I would write something more like "it will boot from USB through an unpowered hub". And that is exactly a test I will run.

Still does not make any sense whichever way you shake it, nowhere does the OP state he is powering via the default USB power connector, GPIO or trying to USB backfired, clarity is all I ask !!!!!!
I'm afraid you're going to have to pick a different language in that case. English, as it is used, is frequently unclear and imprecise.

Since the OP said that the Pi booted, it must have been getting power from somewhere. Since he specifies and unpowered hub, it can't be from the hub, either directly to the PWR connector as back power.

Yes my whole point, the post is very unclear and imprecise...............

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:23 pm
by k-pi
Having problems with English - try this, unpowered means non powered, (the hub), the RPi3A+ board is using the official power supply, (taken for granted, as no other power supply was mentioned). :D

Therefore, I suppose you could say the hub is powered, but by the USB port, which isn't supplying enough of said power to enable booting a pendrive & supplying enough for a regular USB keyboard & a USB mouse at the same time. ;)

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:42 pm
by k-pi
The RPi SBC is not a Desktop PC replacement.
But it works quite well as one. ;)

My RPi3B & RPi3B+ are both set up as small desktop computers, complete with an 8" SVGA monitor on one, & an 11.6" 1366x768 WXGA monitor on the other. :)

My main desktop computer is also an SBC, (Intel based), & uses a 12" XGA monitor. :D

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:50 pm
by fruitoftheloom
k-pi wrote:
Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:42 pm
The RPi SBC is not a Desktop PC replacement.
But it works quite well as one. ;)

My RPi3B & RPi3B+ are both set up as small desktop computers, comlete with an 8" SVGA monitor on one, & an 11.6" 1366x768 WXGA monitor on the other. :)

My main desktop computer is also an SBC, (Intel based), & uses a 12" XGA monitor. :D

My "PC" is an Asus CS10, cost £70.00 new open box, far speedier than a RPi 3A+ ;)

Re: STICKY: Pi 3 A+

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:50 pm
by bensimmo
My original A+ was the same with usb hubs, a wirwd keyboard and mouse in the hub would not work. While wireless keyboard and mice dongles would be fine, be a WiFi or usb pen drive in there as well.
Is the hub a D-Link dub-h4? as they're the ones I had problems with..