TheEponymousBob
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:14 pm

It would have provided a disincentive for UK manufacturing using imported components, hence promoting domestic components. But now that we don"t really have domestic component industry it is now backfiring.

Or at least that"s how I took it.

Andrea
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:20 pm

I'm not an UK resident and I'm not an English native speaker, by the way I'm following with interest the Raspberry Pi Project as well as these forums. The big effort of producing the device (I want to order some of them quickly ! ) in the UK sounds outstanding and ethic at the same time.

I'm not addicted to UK politics and I don't want to influence it but I hope you'll reach the goal and you can have all the success you deserve (I've tried to sign in but I can't). Generally speaking that kind of achievement in the UK will be a benefit for the whole EU community. I'll look forward for a local production (in the UK) or in a "near local" manufacturing facility in Europe at least...

And please inform us if you plan to create a petition or something else which involves citizens from other EU states.

Cheers

Ben

PiOfCube
Posts: 96
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:57 pm

I would like to see the UK economy get a boost as this would also have a positive effect on other countries. If the UK's economy improved, it would mean that there would be more money available to the public. This often allows the general UK public give help to "home-grown" charities and those that benefit other countries. When the belts are being tightened, for many, one of the first things that "goes out of the window" is pure charitable donations and voluntary work itself.

Many people that are involved in charitable work may share my thoughts that, on a national scale, charity must begin at home before it can spread out further. But before the charity can begin anywhere, those that would be granting it must have it to give.

Take a look at the real figures of the UK's "situation"... Comparing the year 2000 with 2009


Cash surplus/deficit (% of GDP) 2000 = *PLUS* +1.65% (2009 = *MINUS* -10.89%)
GDP growth rate 2000 = *PLUS* 3.92% (2009 = *MINUS* -4.87%)
High-technology exports (% of manufactured exports) 2000 = 32.07% (2009 = 22.59%)


Have a play with the information yourselves
http://www.google.co.uk/publicdata...

Okay... someone pass the frog pills
- 1BillionHex aka PiOfCube: 68719476738 -

digital_addict
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:40 pm

Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:10 am

Hypothetically speaking



A Japanese car company imports 1100 alternators, and pays tariff tax.

1000 of which are for production and 100 for spare parts for retailers.

When a vehicle is sold the vat is charged on cost + manufacturers profit

When the spare is sold, the vat is charged on cost x (a lot).

In the great scheme of things this is a nice little earner for HMRC. Also, long term, is how much can we collect this year



I could, of cause, be talking a load of b****cks, but, stealth and tax are words governments don't like to hear.



Call me a cynic if you like, I don't care

Benedict White
Posts: 224
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:13 am

digital_addict said:




Call me a cynic if you like, I don't care


You're a cynic, and what's worse, you just don't care!

I can call you a taxi as well if it helps!

digital_addict
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:40 pm

Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:26 am

Benedict White said:



You're a cynic, and what's worse, you just don't care!

I can call you a taxi as well if it helps!



Having re read the post, does your taxi go to spelling as well as python classes?

Post still stands.



PS can't do smilies or copy/paste either

Benedict White
Posts: 224
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 am

digital_addict said:


Benedict White said:



You're a cynic, and what's worse, you just don't care!

I can call you a taxi as well if it helps!



Having re read the post, does your taxi go to spelling as well as python classes?

Post still stands.



PS can't do smilies or copy/paste either


Call me thick if you like, but I can't quite spot a spelling or typographical error.

I don't copy and paste, I use "quote and reply". Smiley's are easy, based on things like : followed without a space with ) gives  .

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Mezo
Posts: 55
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:30 am

Waste of time, all party's are the same, they just looking out for themselves.

Just babbling on in the commons dragging out time until they can get there public sector pensions, you may as well give the petition to the dog so he can have a chew on it.

Mezo. (ex UK)

Lynbarn
Posts: 464
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:48 am

Wow! Thanks all those who have signed – my ePetition has now reached 764 signatures – more than 10% of this group's membership (although not all signatures will be from here) and it is already the 280th most popular current ePetition – out of over 10,800 – some of which have been live for up to a year. Not bad for just over a day!

The ePetition doesn't specifically mention Raspberry Pi, as it is relevent to all electronics (and indeed, other) importers/manufacturers in the UK – and indeed, the EU.

Whilst I don't expect this to reach 100,000 signatures and see the matter discussed in parliament (although you never know), it may be that we could at least raise the profile of this issue in the minds of those who make the decisions.

It may not help The Raspberry Pi Foundation much - certainly not in the short term, but in years to come, it might just help some of the nascent programmers and hardware engineers about to embark on the first steps into this industry – using their 'Pis –  to manufacture the products they develop here in the UK – another small victory for the 'Pi!

In the meantime, please encourage your friends and colleagues to sign up – and also to write to their MPs, specifically about The Raspberry Pi Foundation's ambitions and aspirations.

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Burngate
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:06 pm

830 and counting.

I was under the impression this system was brought in to protect the Auto-parts industry, when Toyota et. al. were killing our car-makers. The idea was that the foreign (at that time Japanese) importers would use local suppliers rather than their own.

So you might find that industry complaining.

guyh
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:12 pm

Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:44 pm

LOL

asking the millionaire ruling classes to please stop exploiting workers for profit

classic


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kyndair
Posts: 7
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:03 pm

Lynbarn said:


Following the great news that Raspberry Pi manufacturing has started, the less good news that it is not being made in the UK, and Liz's explanation as to why this is, I have created an ePetition to the Government to encourage electronics manufacturing by changing the import duty rules. This may not make any difference, but If we can get 100,000 signatures, they will at least have to discuss it in The House!

You can sign the petition here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.u.....tions/2715

and help to publicise this by passing the link on to colleagues, family & friends, and by clicking the links to Facebook, linkedin and Twitter.




signed and the word spread, thanks to Lynbarn for setting it up


jwatte
Posts: 203
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:56 pm

Btw: I think the main cost might be in the cost of administering and paying the duty, plus the delay at customs, rather than in the 2.5% average duty or whatever it is. Many shipping companies will charge you more to process and pay the duty (over the duty itself) than they will for the shipping.

However, if you remove that revenue from the shipping companies, then that means fewer jobs in shipping and customs -- your petition is really saying "please let us have our lego blocks from China slightly cheaper, at the expense of good jobs in the shipping and customs businesses."

Lynbarn
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:05 pm

piglet said:


Only 1K signatures



...so far! But bear in mind, it is also 224th/10,800-odd in terms of popularity of all the currently live ePetitions.

Personally, I think that is pretty good for the second day - we do have another 363 days to go!

scologic
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:41 pm

you are all missing the point.. (more flames coming my way again at a guess)..

The taxes are there to stop cheap imports and maintain EU manufacture and jobs. It's not just components. Battery legislation and recycling Weee etc are all part of the reason the duty's are there.

It's also about consumers getting safe appropriate product - no lead paint on toys, batteries that dont explode in a persons hand or pocket - product thats properly recycled at end of life and much much more.

So all that have signed the petition want dodgy product into the EU, more skilled jobs and sectors going to places like India and China.

Even with all the safe guards we have un the EU  'Chinese Export' uses an identical logo to euro CE certification, and there is tons of dodgy kit shipped into the EU like this.. (i'm trying to not be anti China here as they do also make some fantastic products that do comply with all legislation).

Prometheus
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:01 pm

scologic said:


you are all missing the point.. (more flames coming my way again at a guess)..

The taxes are there to stop cheap imports and maintain EU manufacture and jobs. It's not just components. Battery legislation and recycling Weee etc are all part of the reason the duty's are there.


Speaking of missing the point: The petition is about The Integrated Tariff of the United Kingdom. I'm pretty sure it's a UK-only issue, not one affecting the EU at large.

So all that have signed the petition want dodgy product into the EU, more skilled jobs and sectors going to places like India and China.
That's just trying to cause an argument.

Lynbarn
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:17 pm

Prometheus said:


scologic said:


you are all missing the point.. (more flames coming my way again at a guess)..

The taxes are there to stop cheap imports and maintain EU manufacture and jobs. It's not just components. Battery legislation and recycling Weee etc are all part of the reason the duty's are there.


Speaking of missing the point: The petition is about The Integrated Tariff of the United Kingdom. I'm pretty sure it's a UK-only issue, not one affecting the EU at large.


So all that have signed the petition want dodgy product into the EU, more skilled jobs and sectors going to places like India and China.


That's just trying to cause an argument.



Actually, although the epetition is aimed at the UK Government (there isn't so far as I can tell, an EU-ePetiton website!), as the import duties are harmonised across the EU, it will need a cross-europe agreement to make many changes. However, they do regularly meet to adjust rates on different commodities, so who knows - it could happen...

Prometheus
Posts: 308
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:23 pm

Lynbarn said:

Actually, although the epetition is aimed at the UK Government (there isn't so far as I can tell, an EU-ePetiton website!), as the import duties are harmonised across the EU, it will need a cross-europe agreement to make many changes. However, they do regularly meet to adjust rates on different commodities, so who knows - it could happen...

I stand corrected - I really didn't know that it was an EU-wide thing. Thanks much, I genuinely appreciate a pointer like this when I've goofed on something.

I do still take issue with the notion that anyone who's signed wants dodgy goods and no domestic jobs, though...

Benedict White
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:31 pm

scologic said:


you are all missing the point.. (more flames coming my way again at a guess)..


Really? I could just refer you to the ultimate flame.. but I will leave that for a while.


The taxes are there to stop cheap imports and maintain EU manufacture and jobs. It's not just components. Battery legislation and recycling Weee etc are all part of the reason the duty's are there.


One of the net effects of this and the Common Agricultural Policy is to keep Africa poor. It's a tad difficult to sell Rolls Royces etc. to people who can't eat.


It's also about consumers getting safe appropriate product - no lead paint on toys, batteries that dont explode in a persons hand or pocket - product thats properly recycled at end of life and much much more.


No. The finished product, just as dodgy as the component can come here no problems, with no tax. What makes you think unscrupulous vendors of components abroad are going to get more scrupulous over a finished product?



So all that have signed the petition want dodgy product into the EU, more skilled jobs and sectors going to places like India and China.


Ah. Here a little flame begins. I can see a village, nay, a town, dare I say a city or indeed a country is missing its ultimate idiot, and we are blessed with their presence.

Those who have signed the petition would like some of those jobs back. Those who don't want the component and finished product manufacture abroad.


Even with all the safe guards we have un the EU  'Chinese Export' uses an identical logo to euro CE certification, and there is tons of dodgy kit shipped into the EU like this.. (i'm trying to not be anti China here as they do also make some fantastic products that do comply with all legislation).


No, they don't use an identical loge, they use the CE mark, some have the documentation to back it up some don't.

Any one can CE mark what they like, whether they have conducted any due diligence to warrant the mark is another matter. See PIP breast implants as an example of an EU manufactured CE marked product was was as dodgy as you claim the "imports" are.

nichobb
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:24 am

I signed the petition then saw some of the comments here and on the started manufacturing topic and ½ wished I hadn"t.

Firstly any economy that is relying on protectionist policy (like this) should fail and suffer for it. Rather than try to compete we stick large taxes on imports from those countries that can produce things cheaper. This is not just far east electronics but african food imports (which by the way costs the EU tax payers €50 billion in taxes to subsidise and another €50 billion in higher food bills).

I also have to say how disgusted I find myself with some of the posts, my particular favorites are the ones in the style of "I am not racist but - insert racist bigoted comment here". Just waiting for the chant of "ain"t no black in the union jack"

Benedict White
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:26 am

nichobb said:


I signed the petition then saw some of the comments here and on the started manufacturing topic and ½ wished I hadn"t.

Firstly any economy that is relying on protectionist policy (like this) should fail and suffer for it. Rather than try to compete we stick large taxes on imports from those countries that can produce things cheaper. This is not just far east electronics but african food imports (which by the way costs the EU tax payers €50 billion in taxes to subsidise and another €50 billion in higher food bills).


I agree with your second paragraph but can't see how it tallies with your first.

Signing the petition is not about asking for a tarrif to protect UK jobs, but the removal of ones to stop harming them. Seems sensible to me. I also object to farmers kept in subsidy to keep Africans poor, as I work in IT support, and there is not much call amongst starving Africans for my services. I would far rather they had a chance to earn some money so they could buy things, some of which may be made in the UK.


I also have to say how disgusted I find myself with some of the posts, my particular favorites are the ones in the style of "I am not racist but - insert racist bigoted comment here". Just waiting for the chant of "ain"t no black in the union jack"


There is also no pinky fleshy colour in the Union "Jack" but trying to explain that or the fact that it is only a jack if on ship can be hard work sometimes. We don't fly the Union Jack in the UK (on land), we fly the Union flag.

nichobb
Posts: 82
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:40 am

The reason I had seconds thoughts about signing is because of some of the ignorant comments made, I don"t want to support the same argument that people with these views have.
Hitler may of had some sound economic ideas but he was basically a c***.

Prometheus
Posts: 308
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Re: Petition the government to "Change import duty rules to encourage British manufacturing"

Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:55 am

nichobb said:


The reason I had seconds thoughts about signing is because of some of the ignorant comments made, I don"t want to support the same argument that people with these views have.
Hitler may of had some sound economic ideas but he was basically a c***.


Likewise, having sound economic ideas doesn't mean someone is like Hitler.

Seriously, though, unfortunately, you'll get ignorant people supporting just about anything. It shouldn't put anyone off of supporting something they believe is worthwhile (though, that said, I can fully understand why it would ).

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