jetibest
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Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:34 am

Just putting my personal opinion out there:
Grey text on a grey background for code in this forum is horrible (on a TN-panel monitor).

It is so horrible, that even though I barely use this website, I fixed it for myself in Firefox (version 53, Arch Linux) using the following file
"~/.mozilla/firefox/PROFILE_ID.default/chrome/userContent.css" (create if not exists):

Code: Select all

@-moz-document regexp(".*raspberrypi\.org/forums.*")
{
    .codebox code
    {
        color: black !important;
    }
    .codebox
    {
        margin-bottom: -15px !important;
    }
}
And optionally you can change .codebox code to .codebox:hover code in order to only show code in black if you hover the code with a pointer. Next to this, the big empty space after a code-block makes this note about the code above seem unrelated, therefore I also added some negative margin.

I am flabbergasted to see how such bad web design still exists on a website like this that is used by so many people.

P.S. the SELECT ALL button does not work (it only scrolls to the top of the page).

jamesh
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:43 am

Change to the prosilver theme, that is much more readable.

A forum revamp is long overdue, so all should be fixed then.
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jetibest
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:56 am

jamesh wrote:Change to the prosilver theme, that is much more readable.

A forum revamp is long overdue, so all should be fixed then.
Oh wow, why is that not the default. Thanks :D

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mahjongg
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:21 pm

Because prosilver is simply the default PhpBBs theme, (used by thousands of BBS operators that simply didn't bother to develop their own theme) but ours was especially developed for the Raspberry PI forum. Raspite is not without its faults though, but it does identify us, prosilver does not.

mattmiller
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:04 pm

Raspite is not without its faults
#ROTFLOL

It is, without doubt, the most awful forum skin in the whole of the T'Internet :)

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bensimmo
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:03 pm

The main reason I switched shortly after joining this forum was because there was no 'ego' search to see the post you replied to and see if there is any more conversation, then I hit the new/active posts.


I couldn't tell you what the 'normal' version is like other than washed out whiteness iirc.
I forget people may be using it when using the forum.

I not seen moan on here for Tapatalk like we did on another old push bike forum that now just uses this default skin and a mobile version of this skin.
Plain and simple and work.
This skin could do with some Pi customisations, (like the logo rather than a big phpBB, better picture handling and a raspberry colouring ;-)

It's functional enough though from my perspective.


Though the same gripes can be had in the RaspberryPi Desktop.
It very white and does lack contrast. Borders are lost etc. There is a reason Windows10 now has dark themes and edges came back to define areas after many complaints in the Previews.

But

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:43 pm

jamesh wrote:Change to the prosilver theme, that is much more readable.
*That* is a matter of opinion.

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jojopi
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:43 pm

jetibest wrote: margin-bottom: -15px !important;
You cannot have tested that for very long.

The problem is that some posters put a newline after [/code]. For those of us that do not, your modification will make the next paragraph overlap the code box. (In both themes.)

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Burngate
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:01 pm

jetibest wrote:P.S. the SELECT ALL button does not work (it only scrolls to the top of the page).
I've noticed that - I thought it was just me. It's only started happening recently.

And just as a personal opinion, I feel the prosilver theme makes better use of my screen area. Raspite seems to waste acres on either side - though not quite as bad as when someone sends me a link to a mobile site.

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mahjongg
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:44 pm

mattmiller wrote:
Raspite is not without its faults
#ROTFLOL

It is, without doubt, the most awful forum skin in the whole of the T'Internet :)
That is a matter of opinion. I myself do rather like it.
Do understand that it was developed for KIDS, which should be the natural users of the PI, therefore it has been kept bare as not to form too much of an distraction.
I have tried to like ProSilver myself, but all the blue made me puke, and I quickly turned back to RasPite.
Also there are too many fora already that greet you with all the blue.

mattmiller
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:32 pm

That is a matter of opinion
It really isn't :)

W. H. Heydt
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 6:47 pm

mattmiller wrote:
That is a matter of opinion
It really isn't :)
One may dislike both the default and Prosilver. One may like both. Or one may like one and not the other. It's opinions all the way. I tried Prosilver because there are features of the default theme I don't particularly like...and switched back within 5 minutes because I detested Prosilver. That is *my* opinion. Claiming any sort of "factual" basis for a preference is a fiction. It is just opinion.

What I like about the default is the plain, white background and the simple, uncluttered look. What I don't like about the default is the relatively low contrast. Set the fonts to a good, solid *black* (especially the font in the code box) and I'd sit here and purr about it.

DirkS
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:27 pm

Burngate wrote:
jetibest wrote:P.S. the SELECT ALL button does not work (it only scrolls to the top of the page).
I've noticed that - I thought it was just me. It's only started happening recently..
Same here. Started about a month (or 2) ago.
Really annoying.

jetibest
Posts: 21
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:33 pm

For authenticity it is good that the forum matches the raspberrypi.org website, that is an opinion of - and a decision for - the Raspberry Pi staff.
Complaining about the forum theme based on opinion would be the same as telling Raspberry Pi they should use a strawberry in their logo because of personal food preference. But there is a difference between opinion and bad web design. There is simply no sensable reason for bad web design (especially not from a commercial perspective).

Who is responsible for this forum anyway?
I'm assuming that anyone who ever bought a Raspberry Pi has visited this forum at least once, right? I'm pretty sure that the executives have no idea about either the current state of the forum or the importance of getting it right.

Pithagoros
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:59 pm

mattmiller wrote:
It is, without doubt, the most awful forum skin in the whole of the T'Internet :)
Not without my doubt.

See every gaming forum and every PC modding forum. I think they are all deliberately designed to induce nausea.

This one is unfussy and straightforward, unencumbered no BS and I like it.

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r3d4
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:01 pm

jetibest wrote: Who is responsible for this forum anyway?
I'm assuming that anyone who ever bought a Raspberry Pi has visited this forum at least once, right? I'm pretty sure that the executives have no idea about either the current state of the forum or the importance of getting it right.
Do you have a spare ITIL ?
:roll:
strangly reminded of some "kanaging mnowledge" thred
*twilight zone music*

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Douglas6
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:04 pm

And Raspite works on a phone. Prosilver doesn't. I don't think that's an opinion.

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DougieLawson
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:18 pm

mattmiller wrote:
Raspite is not without its faults
#ROTFLOL

It is, without doubt, the most awful forum skin in the whole of the T'Internet :)
+1.

With prosilver coming in a close second almost as bad.
Note: Having anything humorous in your signature is completely banned on this forum. Wear a tin-foil hat and you'll get a ban.

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W. H. Heydt
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:11 pm

jetibest wrote:But there is a difference between opinion and bad web design. There is simply no sensable reason for bad web design (especially not from a commercial perspective).
A lot of what one can call "good" or "bad" web design is subjective, and--thus--opinion.

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Paeryn
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Re: Forum code readability

Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:01 pm

Douglas6 wrote:And Raspite works on a phone. Prosilver doesn't. I don't think that's an opinion.
That all depends on your phone and it's browser. I've never had a problem reading these fora on my phone and I've always used Prosilver.
She who travels light — forgot something.

jamesh
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Re: Forum code readability

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:43 am

jetibest wrote:Who is responsible for this forum anyway?
Right now, day to day running, me.
jetibest wrote: I'm assuming that anyone who ever bought a Raspberry Pi has visited this forum at least once, right?
I doubt it. No way of knowing.
jetibest wrote: I'm pretty sure that the executives have no idea about either the current state of the forum or the importance of getting it right.
Quite an assumption, and quite wrong. I can assure you they do know, and they are also aware that forum is one of the main reasons the Pi has become as popular as it is. It's not quite as important now as it has been in the past, since there is now a huge amount of documentation available, along with third party resources.

In general, the forum works, but it is due an update which is in the works (and has been for about 3 years, but due to contractors pulling out at inopportune times, and pregnancy of Liz, it's has been delayed).

The underlying PHP version has been updated to the latest version in the last couple of months - this might be why the select all function has broken. I'll see if I can get that seen to.
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Re: Forum code readability

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:54 am

Paeryn wrote:
Douglas6 wrote:And Raspite works on a phone. Prosilver doesn't. I don't think that's an opinion.
That all depends on your phone and it's browser. I've never had a problem reading these fora on my phone and I've always used Prosilver.
Ditto. I generally read the forums whilst on the train using an Android phone and Prosilver - no problems other than the normal ones with embedded images getting cropped (happens on the desktop with Firefox too).
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bensimmo
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Re: Forum code readability

Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:26 am

I can't see any real customisations in prosilver, would it be possibly to enable the default mobile skin as a selectable too?
It quite a usable skin by the looks of it.

https://www.phpbb.com/community/
Of course you need to be on a mobile device.

jetibest
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Re: Forum code readability

Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:50 am

jamesh wrote:
jetibest wrote:Who is responsible for this forum anyway?
Right now, day to day running, me.
jetibest wrote: I'm assuming that anyone who ever bought a Raspberry Pi has visited this forum at least once, right?
I doubt it. No way of knowing.
jetibest wrote: I'm pretty sure that the executives have no idea about either the current state of the forum or the importance of getting it right.
Quite an assumption, and quite wrong. I can assure you they do know, and they are also aware that forum is one of the main reasons the Pi has become as popular as it is. It's not quite as important now as it has been in the past, since there is now a huge amount of documentation available, along with third party resources.

In general, the forum works, but it is due an update which is in the works (and has been for about 3 years, but due to contractors pulling out at inopportune times, and pregnancy of Liz, it's has been delayed).

The underlying PHP version has been updated to the latest version in the last couple of months - this might be why the select all function has broken. I'll see if I can get that seen to.
OK, thank you.

"I doubt it"
Ok, let's do a quick rough statistical analysis:
"In total there are 683 users online :: 26 registered, 1 hidden and 656 guests (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)"
"Total posts 1149745 • Total topics 171407 • Total members 207527"
Google-result of 'raspberry pi sale statistics': "Raspberry Pi sold over 12.5 million boards in five years - The Verge"
Let's assume 600:30 guest:member ratio (although guests may be logged-out members), meaning 200K * 600/30 = 4M.
4M/12.5M is ~30% of the customers that visited the forum. But this assumes every customer only bought one RPI in these 5 years, which is obviously not true (especially concerning RPI is targeted at education).
Seems reason enough for me to doubt.

"No way of knowing."
Well, having a simple poll-popup on the forum - over the course of only one day - asking if you have ever registered before on this forum, could already give you a pretty good idea how many guests are actually members in disguise. And Raspberry Pi staff may have a better idea of how many of those 12.5M are unique customers (if that number is ~1.1, ~1.5, ~2.0, ...).
Making these two variables more reliable seems relatively simple.

I'm just trying to say, maybe the forum is still as important as it used to be.

Anyway, good luck with the new forum. I hope it works out ;)

jamesh
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Re: Forum code readability

Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:58 am

14M boards sold, approximately 500k a month being built. Assume 10% new owners, 50k new users per month. We do not get anywhere near that many new registrations per month. Right now, 631 guests online, and 19 registered users (You can only post if registered.) so about 3% registered. 3% of 50000 is about 1500. We don't get new 1500 registrations per month.

Still pretty unpredictable, and figures off the back of an envelope and worked out in head, so prone to error.
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Contrary to popular belief, humorous signatures are allowed. Here's an example...
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